Following from post where my dog has haematuria and all investigations so far have failed to find a cause, the vet has now mentioned ideopathic renal haematuria.
His bladder ultrasound showed nothing abnormal, prostate was normal and the urine sent for cultures was normal a part showing red blood cells. No infection detected, which is what I was hoping for so he could receive treatment.

On a urine six he is still throwing out the highest amount of blood, though his urine isn't red or pink but more deep orange and very cloudy.

Anyone have experience of this or idea of cost for further investigations? Have looked on line at some sites and seems varied on prognosis and treatments available.

feeling rather fed up right now

I would be 'fed up' too!!   These vague diagnosis, if this can be called that, just drain a Bank Account (unless insurance will cover what's going on?) faster than anything.   Been there big time.

In all honesty, as even if somebody has been down this road, that's not to say that this will be applicable to your dog I think now is the time to take another opinion (have you?) as it seems you are being given the run around big time.   So your vet has now 'mentioned' ideopathic renal haematuria.    What does he say is the next step to CONFIRM this??   And be warned, sometimes using the internet just makes you more confused and worried!      You need to be able to sit down with a qualified vet and discuss your options, prognosis and yes, cost.

Hi Lorripop

Sorry you are still struggling to find answers.  I had a situation similar to yours in some respects.  In our case I'm afraid there was no happy outcome.  I don't want to alarm you but this was our experience:

My boy was much older than yours.  He was 10.  He had haematuria on and off for about three months.  Lots of investigations including bladder ultrasound, bloods, urine etc.  Nothing abnormal discovered apart, of course, from the blood, which came and went and was sometimes very obvious, sometimes not.

He had no other symptoms and appeared well in himself - although he did have other, unrelated, problems.

Our thorough and trusted vet then suggested it might indeed be idiopathic explaining that this sometimes happens and keeps recurring although the dog remains well.

We were exploring further investigations for our boy but sadly he became very poorly the night before an appointment for consultation at vet. hospital, and was clearly in pain.  Decision taken to PTS in the middle of the night.  He was 10 and it was the right thing to do, although devastating of course.

The view was that he must have had a tumour "somewhere" (probably kidney) which had been bleeding on and off but was not detectable via routine investigations.

I hesitate to share this story as I do not want to alarm you unduly.  I do hope there will be a much more positive explanation for your boy and the vets can get to the bottom of things.  However I think it is worth sharing if only to highlight that idiopathic haematuria is certainly possible.  Unfortunately, sinister stuff can be lurking, making symptoms mysterious and diagnosis difficult without more invasive investigations (which we did not want to put our dear boy through, due to age and other conditions).

Fingers crossed for a good outcome for you and your boy.

Good luck.
Blay  X

thank you

Vet wants me to re test urine on Monday and he will phone me on Tuesday. Next step is referral he said. Things so far have been a weeks worth of antibiotics which finished last Thursday, this Tuesday he had ultrasound of bladder and catheter collection of urine to be sent to lab which just showed red blood cells, no bacteria or crystals, and grew nothing on culture.

Initially we thought UTI caused by clyclavance which he was put on for his abnormal growths between his paw pads that get sore, probably allergy and abnormal front weight distribution. Now we know its not UTI and so far nothing else found in bladder the vet is suggesting it could be idiopathic renal blood loss.

We have insurance up to 4k per year but already because of the allergy testing and specialist dermatologist appts and the medication we're eating into it. probable had about 1000 maybe already.

This poor dog has had one thing after another and he's not 4 until October. elbow ops, knee op x2, entropion fixed, now the itching and allergy and now this!

Thank you Blay, I like honest experiences so don't worry about posting it.

Like your boy mine appears well except sleepy unless food is around but he does seem to nod off quite easy (clumbers aren't known for being the most energetic dogs though!)
He's eating well, likes his walk still but lags sometimes. Not drinking anymore, not peeing anymore than he usually does. Doesn't seem in pain when peeing but dogs are tricky to access pain, plus he's on metacam and gabapentin (both long term)

Like you said the vet said it can just disappear after a while but we don't really know how long he's had it. It was by chance I found it on a urine stix because he was acting very depressed but maybe that was the side effect of cyclavance.

Goodness - your poor boy (and poor you!)

Referral seems to be the way to go so that you can discuss all options with an appropriate specialist.

We also originally thought UTI and wished it could have been that simple!  Not knowing what is going on is so worrying.

I hope you get an appointment with a helpful specialist soon.

Its difficult really because of all his other problems we did say that if anything else major comes up we would call it a day. Some might say thats cruel but he has had so much wrong with him over the last 3 1/2 years we wonder if its fair to put him through more vet procedures.

He enjoys life and likes being out, he's very wonky when he runs but he can run!

This just seem another kick for him.

I am sorry. I know how difficult and expensive allergies are without the rest . I think your vet is being very good he has looked at the basic things first and is now recommending a referral if you want to take things further.  Hard choices especially if u have to consider cost as well

I don't think it's cruel to consider calling it a day depending on the circumstances.  Sometimes it might be cruel NOT to consider this.  Of course every case is different and it is the "whole picture" which counts.

Weighing it all up can be so very hard.  At least if you can meet with a specialist you can have the opportunity to explore all the possibilities - whether or not you decide to take up any suggestions for further invasive investigations.

Agree with Furriefriends - your vet sounds good.  All they can do is take things step by step and to recommend referral at the appropriate stage.  Sounds like they have done this.

So glad your lad is enjoying life.  He's lucky to have you looking out for him.  X

Yes I will go for referral as need to just find the cause.

This puts have his feet sorted on hold, next step for them was maybe surgery to remove the large lumps he has between the pads that then get sore and graze as he walks on them. the lumps never go down so its a management battle. he's always lame too so we really do have have to weigh up whats best for him.

lets hope by Monday some miracle happens and no haematuria is detected on the urine stix!!

Unless they can cure whatever it is, and it is having a negative effect on his wellbeing/causing pain, then I would stop all further testing and let the dog enjoy his life.

He's not a dog but my dad has benign idiopathic haematuria. So deemed after about 8 months of stressful testing many years ago now. He always has trace to +++ blood on dips although he claims it's never to the point of being visible. It was found randomly when they were testing for something else.

I did know a dog with dark orange juice wee who died of kidney failure, but he had the orangey wee for at least 3 years. They tested and found nothing much and then years later he got suddenly ill one day and he was found to be in kidney failure. I think he had some kind of renal cancer but it was 26 years ago so I might be misremembering. But I am positive about the interval he had the orange wee for because he was a neighbours dog who I walked the first year after they moved in and he used to mark my feet

I will see what vet says tomorrow re further investigations. We're away from Thursday for a week so nothing will be done until we get back. But we may well just leave alone and see how things go.

His wee is like burnt orange and cloudy. His kidney function blood tests were all in normal range.

Does he drink enough??

Seems to drink enough and I do make him drink a bit more as give diluted goats milk.

Back from hols now and no change in urine so vet ringing on Tuesday and the plan I think is to kidney scan.
Can't see it being very serious as he isn't deteriorating in any way.

Wishing you luck.