"Posh grain-free dog food may be linked to heart disease in dogs vets fear":

Article HERE

Another interesting (related) article HERE

Very very interesting & important, especially as grain free seemed to be the trend on here a year or 2 back, maybe even now but I don't look at the feeding are so I dont know......ahhhh well, back sticks of Blackpool rock I suppose....
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I know nothing has been confirmed but the role of taurine in cats diets is absolutely necessary as diet is their primary source of taurine . Dogs are different in that respect but there have been a few research articles saying that taurine is helpful in dogs as well. Maybe more is about to be discovered
. Easy to cover in a raw diet but unless commercial companies are including taurine it will be lacking as it was in commercial.cat food a few years back. 

Watch this space

The article seems to say that vets feel that many of the dogs they are seeong with heart problems are fed grain free. No study. No stats. Just some "feelings".

I'm confused. Taurine is found in meat and fish - so how would feeding kibble with grains help to remedy this deficiency? (If it does turn out to exist). The advice to stop reading the ingredients on the bag is just plain stupid. Experienced dog owners, such as those on here, would not dream of selecting a food that they had not evaluated on the basis of the ingredients.
The market for grain free food has been growing quite rapidly over recent years. Is it therefore surprising that the percentage of grain-free fed dogs suffering from any particular complaint is rising? The same dogs would most likely still have developed DCM if they had been being fed on standard supermarket fare. The advice to change to a company with a long history, sounds rather like a veiled promotion for the big gun companies.

This kind of potentially fear-inducing reporting is as bad as those seen for humans.   In the end, none of us, nor our animals, will be eating ANYTHING.    For some time I've had mine on a fish and potato commercial diet - grain free.   Recently because I made a mistake in ordering, they have been on salmon and rice, same manufacturer.    My Basset has a 'slight' heart murmur, according to the vet I use most at the practice I'm not using.   He specialises in hearts and in truth, was the first vet to pick up on any problem he had.   In fact another vet there said he'd have not picked up on it if it wasn't on his notes now.  I can't see taurine listed as an ingredient in the food I'm using.   I may run this past their very helpful dietician and see what she has to say!

I know nothing has been confirmed but the role of taurine in cats

Never heard of it till now but as it was in a newspaper I did a check to see, as best as I could see, a science report, see abstract at link....................of other interest Boris Johnson may have had a reaction to taurine, in his latest, possibly his greatest, ITV news broadcast out burst this week he has said, in relation to burka wearing that ........................''Muslim women should not go round looking like letter boxes''........definitely a sign of an overdose of Taurine & Eton mess.

Science Direct Abstract
Functional foods in pet nutrition: Focus on dogs and cats
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0034528816303332
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Cat foods have taurine added now regardless of.the amount of meat in the food which is often very low anyway  .it may not even be taurine just one thought and not to do with the grain either. more the composition of the food generally. Really too early too know and Just scaremongering atm

https://m.onlynaturalpet.com/holistic-healthcare-library/vitamins-nutritional-supplements/113/the-importance-of-taurine-for-dogs-and-catos.aspx  can only see if taurine is implicated it's to do with lack of taurine being add to grain free food not that it's anything to do with grain

add to grain free food not that it's anything to do with grain

I see 'grain free' as one of quite number of human obsessions centering on an animal species along with the quite powerful 'at the time' commercial promotions appealing to some people, food was especially vulnerable to the later. One of these fashionable obsessions did start to show its head very recently but never really took off as far as I can tell, I saw a couple of adds for them on one of those free adds sites, as well as quite a bit of free publicity.

Euro, real racoon
https://bit.ly/2vpfDrr

£60, Clithero
https://bit.ly/2HWtlua

BBC, The Racoon Dog
https://bbc.in/2OMOS8a

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So I did contact the Arden Grange dietician and received the following - extracted FOR INFORMATION.

"...... unfortunately there have been no recent developments since the first published report, and the situation remains highly speculative. As members of the Pet Food Manufacturing Association (PFMA) we are being kept aware of any news regarding the investigation and will of course be compliant with any new directives that could arise once conclusions have been drawn.

In the meantime, I hope it will reassure you in that we do measure the essential amino acid levels in our food to ensure that they are within the correct parameters. Taurine however is currently not considered an essential amino acid for dogs (because they can manufacture it within the body as well as derive it efficiently from natural sources such as meat), so  it has not been necessary to measure this specific amino acid. Also, there is no standard to measure it to, because a formal RDA has not yet been established for dog food manufacturers to work with. We are still awaiting the conclusions of the investigation to be able to implement any actions if required - which could include a declaration of the level and/or supplementing with additional taurine. "

Thank u mambas Makes perfect sense atm as to what is currently considered correct according to what i have learned about d9gs and taurine
I feel we will see a time when it's decided that taurine should  be added and is seen as helpful for heart health in particular. Mine do get taurine as part of their diet anyway as I feed heart and muscle meat  Too much isn't an issue as it's water soluble so hard to od
As to if this has anything to do with the original links only time will tell

> I'm confused. Taurine is found in meat and fish - so how would feeding kibble with grains help to remedy this deficiency? (If it does turn out to exist). The advice to stop reading the ingredients on the bag is just plain stupid. Experienced dog owners, such as those on here, would not dream of selecting a food that they had not evaluated on the basis of the ingredients.<br />The market for grain free food has been growing quite rapidly over recent years. Is it therefore surprising that the percentage of grain-free fed dogs suffering from any particular complaint is rising? The same dogs would most likely still have developed DCM if they had been being fed on standard supermarket fare. The advice to change to a company with a long history, sounds rather like a veiled promotion for the big gun companies.

That was pretty much exactly my reaction. Mind you, I don't trust most pet food companies to tell me what I should be feeding my animals when what they claim is the best is conveniently what's the cheapest ingredients to base their food on.

Mind you, I'm totally biased as a rabbit owner who has done a ton of research into what's appropriate for rabbits. The vast majority of commercial rabbit pellets contain stuff that no rabbit should be going anywhere near, and some companies actively recommend that rabbits don't need hay when eating their food - the rabbit diet should be at least 80% hay! (My two eat almost exclusively hay and foraged wild plants with the occasional grass-based commercial treat and their gut health and teeth thank me for it.)

There's no way in the world I would feed any animal any processed food without reading the ingredients to know exactly what's in it.

Don't even start looking at commercial.cat food then silverleaf ! given they are obligate carnivores and can't process fruit and veg it's a wonder with the ingredients of most commercial food they stay alive at all .

I'm confused. Taurine is found in meat and fish - so how would feeding kibble with grains help to remedy this deficiency?

No idea if it does or does not but if you read my quote below why 'grain free' was being promoted on dog media sites the quote explains what was behind it (& numerous other things like it)

Quote Euro.... 'grain free' as one of quite number of human obsessions centering on an animal species along with the quite powerful 'at the time' commercial promotions appealing to some people, food was especially vulnerable to the later
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> Don't even start looking at commercial.cat food then silverleaf ! given they are obligate carnivores and can't process fruit and veg it's a wonder with the ingredients of most commercial food they stay alive at all .

When I adopted my cat a friend gave me a box of cat food pouches made by one of the big companies. I was totally shocked to find they were only 4% meat/fish. I mean I get that a cat hunting small things like mice and birds and so on would eat a certain amount of the stomach contents (and my Pixel actually begs for a few blades of grass when I come in from collecting greens for the bunnies). But seriously? 4% meat?

I got him onto a better food straight away and I'm about to change him to an even higher meat one. I don't know how they can be allowed to sell cat food where meat/fish isn't even the first ingredient.

And I have no idea why so many cats are obsessed with Dreamies when they are pretty much like flavoured cardboard.

Raw feeding is best for cats than any commercial stuff . Mind I feel the same with dogs too but they arnt obligate carnivores.  as for dreamies and similar foods it's generally the sugars in them that make them like kitty crack

> Raw feeding is best for cats than any commercial stuff

I'd probably feed my cat raw too but with rabbits in the house it's just a bit more risk than I'm willing to take. Pixel has enough dodgy germs in his mouth and on his fur already and rabbits have a very sensitive gut ecosystems which don't need raw meat bacteria in there. The new food is 90% meat/fish anyway so it's the next best thing., and I'll supplement with cooked meat/fish too.

Going back to the original article, I'm reading a lot of disapproval of foods containing "exotic" meats such as buffalo, kangaroo, venison, etc, as unnecessary and trendy. I was under the impression that these foods are very helpful for dogs which have allergies to the more common meats like beef or chicken - a dog can't be allergic to a protein it hasn't ever eaten (although of course it may develop a new allergy later on). The article doesn't take into consideration that some owners may need to use these novel proteins because their dog just can't process common meats properly.

I don't believe that all dogs need a grain-free diet, to be honest. (Clearly some do, of course.) They have evolved to live alongside us eating our scraps for thousands of years so they can deal with a few carbs - but on the other hand even humans don't deal with grains as well as we deal with other foods. For most dogs a few cereals should be fine, but cereals shouldn't by any means be the first ingredient listed in dog food.

I have copied an article from a site that I love to refer to from time to time, in response to the above post by Silverleaf79. (last paragraph)

http://rawfed.com/myths/cooked.html

Maybe I am just getting my knickers in a twist !!

Exotics are only exotic when they arnt in your country .The Australian and American raw feeders I know happily feed those in the same way I feed venison

I feed venison

Montjacs are classed as vermin by some woodland owners I know (tree destruction), I don't see any ecological benefits from them but boy do they taste nice

As far as grain foods go, these hot summers are begining to look like a permanent feature, if so they are going to have to genetically modify grain crops  again to adjust to the hot weather, grain crops this year will be very poor as a result of the drought & heat.
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just had this sent to me which Is linked to the original post and may explains further why grain free food could be at fault. makes interesting reading anyway and seems the science behind foods needs to be revisited various things need to be revisited

http://www.littlebigcat.com/nutrition/grain-free-dog-food-taurine-and-heart-disease/

Very interesting read furriefriends.

Can Taurine deficient DCM be reversed? Or is it permanent once damage is done?

I don't know .I know increasing taurine can help heart health but after damage has been done I've no idea . It looks like the research is only in its Infancy but certainly something to keep watching

My scientific conclusion after reading the articles - we don’t really know. Could be this, could be that, no real conclusions can be drawn just yet, at least some dogs on some foods possibly need more taurine but some affected dogs have normal taurine levels so it’s not even that simple.

Clearly needs a LOT more research before anyone can say conclusively what’s going on here.

And I also want to point out that correlation is not causation. In other words, just because two things are linked, it doesn’t mean that one thing causes the other. Maybe there’s a third thing, or even several other factors that have an effect?

Doing some googling it appears that this is not a new theory but may have become more prevalent since there has been more grain free foods and more dcm .as u say cidrelatuin is not necessarily causation but something to watch .even if it's to gain knowledge