Below is a comment of a German kennels breeding criteria specific to DCM. Dobe kennel attempting to avoid DCM, which seems to be on the increase everywhere.
Discuss/comments?
|
Breeders Criteria
Dilute and DCM (heart disease). All dogs were tested negative for gene screening of the responsible DCM gene PDK. We only select males who also have these examinations or who are already older or have demonstrably healthy ancestors.
.

Im confused. Why would you not test and why would you not exclude dogs and bitches with it.
Seems simple enough surely?

I've read that having the gene doesn't mean the dog will get it but is much more likely to (7-risk fold) and that a clear doesn't mean the dog can't get it but it's less likely to. So it seems it's more of a risk factor sort of test rather than a yes/no sort.

Using dogs who have reasont long lived ancestors seems like the best idea as well as testing for the currently known mutations as well.

I'd guess alot would come down to how wide spread the mutation is in the breeds gene pool. Looking on mydogdna it lists 37.85% of tested dogs have at least one copy of the gene on their database and with their average level of genetic diversity being low 26.5% (average for all purebreds 33.8%) aggressive selection against the mutation with no guarantee the clears can't still get it could ruin what little diversity the breed has without resorting an outcrossing project. But there are young dogs dropping dead from the condition so it's a tough one really.

Im confused. Why would you not test and why would you not exclude dogs and bitches with it.
Seems simple enough surely?

Based on what he wrote, I dont understand your post at all!

From what you've written i took it that there is a test fpr which you can test for it and that this breeder is excluding dogs from their breeding programme which haven't come back clear.
If I've misread that then i apologise

From what you've written i took it that there is a test fpr which you can test for it and that this breeder is excluding dogs from their breeding programme which haven't come back clear.

Yes thats what I read into it, but, I have not gone into DCM it for a long time now & i am completely out of touch with/if any advances on it so it surprised my to read there 'now' is a test which can identify a gene to it & therefor genetic pre-disposition to it
.

It's a good start, but as all of the genes/factors responsible for DCM have not yet been identified, it's a bit lacking.  Ultrasound (echo), holter ECGs and troponin (hormone giving good indication of heart status) tests should still be done at a minimum IMO to give the best chance, alongside the available gene test and ancestor health as they are doing.  Still no guarantee, but hitting it with every possible test gives the best possible chance.  Echo, holter and troponin test need to be done annually too.

That's on both dogs and bitches.

www.pawprintgenetics.com/products/tests/details/134/?breed=114  Hope I've typed that correctly!
This refers to the PDK4 gene. Is this what you are looking for?

genes/factors responsible for DCM have not yet been identified,

I know & that seems to be the biggest prob, anyway the link is to the breeders site, almost all in Germany Dobe circles do the Holter & have been for many years, but, in reality all tells them is that 'at the time of test' no indicators were found, look under 'Breeding Goals' at site below:

https://bit.ly/2OaYuc3
.

This refers to the PDK4 gene. Is this what you are looking for?

I don't know, but, what was informative on that site is this part:
''Dogs testing negative for this mutation may still be at risk for dilated cardiomyopathy based on pedigree or clinical history.''
.

Indeed, which is why there's such a drive to find the genetic causes.  The echo and the troponin test are the same - it's all a snapshot, hence the need for annual retesting.

The echo and the troponin test are the same -

OK, Ive never heard of 'tropoin'...echo yes always, but, I only go to mainly western mainland Euro sites, some Hungarian & Czek apart from seeing some Serbian imports here.

it's all a snapshot, hence the need for annual retesting.

I know & for heavens sakes they been on it long enough, Hanover Vet Uni for at least 15 years, Munich, Vienna & a few more I don't  know about, below a link to paper by Munich faculty, Bern & Berlin (In English)

https://www.med.vetmed.uni-muenchen.de/forschung/forschungsprojekte/wess/index.html
.

Just read another form of testing is with NTproBNP.

Shame there is no actual set DNA test.

Oh yes, I'd forgotten about that one.

Yes, they've been working on it a long time - but that's the nature of genetics, especially when dealing with a disease with multiple causes.

I suspect they may also be short of subjects to get samples from, with so many breeders still brushing it under the carpet.

so many breeders still brushing it under the carpet.

I have not/do not (current) found the mainland European dogs which are registered with their breed registration clubs do that. Their thinking is very different, they see the breed as a wholes' health more important than individuals dogs, they would not get away with it anyway because of the breed clubs ZTP fit for breeding tests (mandatory with numerous breeds), not all dogs entered pass that test so cannot get a registered breed club pedigree. *All dogs registered with German Dobermann club must start getting visits from the area breed warden within, I think, 3 or 4 days of birth.
|
German Dobermann Club, Stuttgart Area........ZTP fit for breeding test, 9th June 2018.
https://bit.ly/2vfoJa0
.

There are still plenty of breeders who don't test and don't breed responsibly.  The UK is dreadful for it as is the US, and I see dobes coming from Europe regularly through a nearby rescue who I would lay money down on being poorly bred.

I don't know about mainland Europe, but KC reg here doesn't mean much any more so perhaps not being able to get that registered breed club pedigree doesn't matter to some people over there, too.

Nikita
There are still plenty of breeders who don't test and don't breed responsibly.  The UK is dreadful for it as is the US, and I see dobes coming from Europe regularly through a nearby rescue who I would lay money down on being poorly bred.

I don't know about mainland Europe, but KC reg here doesn't mean much any more so perhaps not being able to get that registered breed club pedigree doesn't matter to some people over there, too.
|
Euro
I made a botch up in my previous post, I went onto a wider, partially relevant..maybe, fit for breeding test, this post was about DCM, research & touching a few things about the genetics......there is some minor relevancies about the ZTP test(s) but thats only a coincidence, anyway, as far as ZTP goes heres an example of 2 countries Hungary & Germany, Dobes
|
Below is the Hungarian Dobe clubs (HGK) critera, it's very lengthy reading but thats the price of a wider knowledge base, there are 2 parts to read.....1. Breeding Certificate Exam &......2. Breeding Regulations................but, they're insisting on members who wish to breed must pass >the German ZTP fit for breeding test......so that means a trip to Germany simply for the ZTP, quote from HGK........'Requirement:both parents have a German breeding certificate / ZTP /'

Hungarian Fit For Breeding  Test, Dobes (in English)
https://bit.ly/2fWja8X

.
German ZTP, (Dobermann Verein) Dobermann fit for breeding test.....in English, this is the most important test for Dobes as FCI recognize Germany as the mother country of the breed. One example of an element is the conformations are only allowed 2cm's out of conformation & ZTP s refused.......very well worth reading for anyone with an interest in Dobes OR fit for breeding tests in most Euro counties outside >relevant only to individual breed<.
.

Germany ZTP Dobes
https://bit.ly/2M2OfJb
.
.