Hi, I need to test which of two dogs is father to puppies due within the next week.

Wondered what the best test is?

I've heard the puppies have to be 4 weeks old to have it.

As the stud owner I guess I am the one paying for it.

Thanks!

The two males and all the pups need to be DNA profiled look here :- http://www.aht.org.uk/cms-display/genetics_dnaparentage.html
its £25 per dog tested that includes the fathers and all pups. Remember some pups could have different fathers so every pup needs doing.

You will probably also need to DNA test the mother.

You will need to wait until the puppies are weaned before you can test them, because they can't have food in their mouths or mum's milk for accurate results.  They also shouldn't have just been playing with each other - as more likely to get each other's DNA in their mouths.  It is best to wait until they have all had a long sleep and then do them one at a time, before they have started to play.

If you are the stud owner, I'm not sure why you are paying for the test?  Really it would be the bitch owner paying, so they know who the father is to register the pups.  Unless you are somehow responsible or at fault for an unwanted mating and have offered to pay....??  Otherwise I'm not sure why you'd be paying for this...

Thanks.

I thought I would be the one to pay as she brought her bitch around for one dog, but he wasn't quite getting there and she said she'd be happy to try my other dog.

She brought her bitch back the next three days too. Tried both dogs one at a time multiple times.

No ties, just slip matings so we don't know which is the father.

She is paying one stud fee but I am in no rush to take it.

Thanks.

> I thought I would be the one to pay as she brought her bitch around for one dog, but he wasn't quite getting there and she said she'd be happy to try my other dog.<br /><br />She brought her bitch back the next three days too. Tried both dogs one at a time multiple times.

Well that makes sense then.

Personally if she was happy for 2 dogs to be tried, I think she should pay the costs.

Surely it should be split 50/50 as bitch owner agreed to multiple studs ? Also useful for DNA profiles to be done for future. Had some non typical lambs born once & possible not sire I had put in with the group of ewes. Had profiling done & breeding was as planned, probably a throw back to ancestors on sire & dam sides. Kept the ewe lamb & sold the ram to a "pet" home to  small non breeding flock kept to be living lawn mowers. Ewe lamb bred to true to her breed

I think it would probably have been best to discuss the cost side of things before you got started(!) and to have agreed that and got it in the contract.

Anyway:  I still think it should be her paying for it.  I mean, what if she had decided to use studs owned by two different people?  Some people do:  They can get more genetic variety within a single litter, since it's possible for pups sired by both studs to be in the litter.  If they have an ageing bitch and want maximum genetic variety or options in just one litter, it can make sense.  Similarly, if one dog's fertility is questionable and they really want to be sure of a litter, a bitch owner might go for multiple studs.  It is not always an oops mating or something irresponsible. 

But if she had chosen to use another stud other than yours, who would pay what, then?  You both don't even need to be consulted or asked permission to be party to this arrangement - a bitch owner could bring her bitch to two studs, with their owners unknowing.  (Not sure that would be ethical, but it could happen.) 

Any way you look at it, it has to be the bitch owner who pays. 

I have friends who just had a litter with 2 sires in the US, using frozen-semen from the 1980s.  They intended only to use one dog's semen, but when thawed it was such poor quality they really didn't think it would achieve a pregnancy - and it was the last straw of his semen.  So they defrosted semen of another stud and used that as well - it was also in poor quality.  Somehow they got 4 pups, 3 from one stud and one from the other.  Of course they themselves - having made the decision to do that to their bitch - paid for the DNA tests on the pups and on mum. 

So - I think you need to go back to the bitch owner and try to propose they pay for this.  It's going to be harder to do this now, but there's nothing to make you pay really is there?  I mean, it makes no difference to you - but SHE needs to know whose fathered the pups, for the registrations.

Thanks all. All three dogs maiden.

We are very good friends and she plans to use one of them on her other bitch.

I gave her a discounted stud fee but if she had asked for the other one, his fee would be cheaper than the discounted one.

I suppose I should put it that I pay for the tests on my dogs to be done with one puppy each, then she pays for the rest? There are 6/7 puppies.

I guess you could propose splitting it, although you've already given her a discounted stud fee, so that sounds very generous to me. 

You could offer just to test your own dogs and pay for those, and she does the puppies... Since you own the dogs and she has the puppies, that would make testing and submitting the swabs and all the rest of it probably easier.

The bitch owner chose to have their girl mated by two studs so it's them who is responsible for the cost of the parentage testing so they can register them. It's the extra cost of a duel sired litter. If your friends and you want to be nice I'd offer to pay for the studs swabs, but the pups would be their responsibility for me.

The bitch owner would normally pay for the tests, as it was their choice to mate their bitch to more than one stud.

Double matings are not uncommon and afaik it is always the bitch’s owner who pays for the tests, as well as double stud fee (for each stud).

As the stud owner I guess I am the one paying for it.

Well, after deep thought, I suggest you send this entire script to Disney studio's, 'Crank Cartoon Division' & you'll be the one getting 'paid for it'...........have a sunny day
.

Euro...I’m sorry??

As to everyone else, thank you. I’ll let you know how it goes.

There's a great button called the 'Ignore' button, is all I can say

Hi all, thanks for the help.

The bitch has had 6 very strong, healthy and nicely marked puppies.

I will be going next week to give her the samples and see them so will sort it then.

She offered to pay the fee before they were born but I will wait until she sells them to take it.

Given the discounted stud fee, two dogs used and waiting to take the fee I don’t think I will pay for the tests.

Normally, it would be the bitch owner who'd pay BUT if you were both involved in what happened there, it might be said that you should pay, for your own satisfaction.  As the owner of the studs involved, I'd want to know!!    Perhaps in this situation, you should each pay half?

Is the KC still allowing registrations from a litter with two sires? - this was suggested to be a good idea at one point with breeds with low gene pools, to avoid a bitch needing to produce 2 litters not one from two separate males.   Of course this would need (and was KC required) all the resulting puppies to be DNA tested, for registration.   I have no idea who, if this happened, was going to be responsible for paying for the DNA testing.