Hi, I'm currently sitting in the vets with my girl (small breed) waiting to be seen. She had a little 8 days ago. 9 pups in total which is a massive litter for this breed, We lost 2 to cleft palate and the other 7 are all doing fine. They are putting on weight and looking healthy. Yesterday it appeared the pups had a bit of loose toilet which the mum attempted to clean up well. She has been nursing them great apart from the lat 10 hours she has been trying but not doing it for as long as normal. I have encouraged her to see to her pups when they cry which she does bless her. Thismorning I noticed one side of her teats are harder than the other. They do not feel warm to touch or red but they do feel swollen. Milk is still coming out of them with a good flow and from what I can see it looks normal milk colour. The vet has said suspected mastitis and we are currently waiting to be seen. She has also been sick a few times and she has messed indoors which is very unlike her. Her stool isn't funny but it's soft. Any advice welcome please. Thank you

The difference between a slightly 'full' teat and a teat which is about to tip over into mastitis can be a hard call to make.  To prevent mastitis, make sure that the teats which make more milk and tend to get full (like the back ones) always have pups on them.  If you notice a teat getting full or hard, immediately get pups to nurse on that.

Alternating between cold and hot compresses also helps - put a wash cloth in the fridge and run another under a hot tap.  Hold one there for 10 mins, then switch to the other and so on. 

Supplementing with sunflower leichithin helps to prevent mastitis, although may not be enough if it is already brewing or developing - but it can't hurt - a tablespoon twice a day.

If the vet gives you ABs, there are several you can use which the pups can continue to nurse whilst your dog is on them - make sure they give you ABs which the pups can continue to nurse, with.  Since you will then be giving ABs, it is important to add probiotics to the bitch's food during and for some weeks after the course of ABs.

Yea there are always pups on the back ones. Most of her nipples are used constantly due to there being 7 pups and 10 teats. She normally feeds then every couple of hours give or take. Over the phone the vet said she may need antibiotics and to bottle feed the pups whilst she has the course of treatment. We are still waiting so he may say different once he sees her. Is there anything else it could be if it isn't mastitis?

You definitely don't want to bottle feed the pups on ABs... Many ABs are safe for pups, whilst nursing...

Posting this quickly so you see it, will post again another post...

Clavamox or Synulox should be the first AB given if mastitis is suspected.  Pups can continue to nurse just fine if mum is on that.

If, after a few days, it is apparent that the clavamox isn't working, then stronger/different ABs may be needed and it may then be necessary to wean pups - but that should not be the first thing tried.

Ok great thankyou. I'll ask the vet about these specific AB's if he doesnt prescribe them beforehand.
To be honest considering her nipples wasn't like this last night I'm confident that it's early signs especially as they don't look sore either. I'm just hoping it's not something more serious especially where she has been sick and messed indoors a few times, as it's so unlike her.

She is eating and drinking also but sometimes I have to encourage her to eat. Once she had her puppies she didn't want to eat her usual food so I added some tinned puppy food to her usual food and she seemed alot more interested. But she still isn't eating as much as I would like. She is quite skinny looking at the moment.

If it is just early signs, you might well be fine with hot and cold compresses and sunflower leichithin as well as getting pups to continue nursing on those nipples. 

By the way, I wouldn't recommend taking a bitch with recently born pups to the vets - the vet is where diseased dogs go.  Especially sitting around a vet's waiting area, is quite a high risk place for disease transmission.  I would always recommend calling the vet out to see you, even if this costs more.  If you have to go to the surgery, leave the dog in the car until the vet is ready to see you and ask if the vet will come out and see the bitch in the car so you don't need to take her into the surgery. 

If you are in the vets with her, I would strongly recommend wiping her over with dilute Dettol or similar - possibly even a parvocide like Safe4Pets or similar - and ensuring each of her paws are dipped in a bowl of it and wiped over, before going back to the puppies now...

Thankyou. Yes I really didn't want to take her in but the vets won't come out to us and she was too hot in the car to wait there even though she was on a cooling pad. Unfortunately we did just have to wait in the waiting room. I've wiped her over with cooled boiled water as the vet said do not put diluted detol on the bitch as she's still nursing. They have given me AB's for a week (ones that are ok to nurse with) and her temperature was fine which is good, but if she doesn't get any better by Tuesday I have to take her back because she will have to go on something stronger and an anti inflamatary which is not safe to nurse her pups on. I was advised to keep the one nipple that is hard and the worst covered up and to not nurse the pups on that one. She has been to the toilet since the vets and it's runny but she's eating and drinking ok. The pups still have runny stools too and yellowish in colour.

Just out of curiosity, do you know what the mums temperature and pups temperature should be so I can keep check on it daily.

Over the last 23 years I have had two bitches going into mastitis, but managed to prevent with the cold and hot compresses, and have and two actually have it, and be put on AB's, where one gland was badly affected with blood in the milk, which sensibly the pups avoided, the second I could not drain the bad milk and the gland burst and healed very quickly once the puss had drained.

In both cases pups continued on Mum just fine.

> I was advised to keep the one nipple that is hard and the worst covered up and to not nurse the pups on that one.

It is very unlikely that pups will even go on an affected gland where the milk has become infected in my experience. It's usually the sure sign that things have progressed to actual mastitis when the pups refuse the engorged gland.

> I was advised to keep the one nipple that is hard and the worst covered up and to not nurse the pups on that one. She

Hmmm...not advise I would follow. Having bred litters & been a dairy farmer the offending teat needs to be kept going or it will cease to function.

>I was advised to keep the one nipple that is hard and the worst covered up and to not nurse the pups on that one.

You should be doing the opposite, doing all you can do get the pups to drink from that teat to keep it functioning and to drain it and reduce the risk of this progressing further.

Almost everything you read online indicates similarly:

https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/mastitis-in-dogs  "The puppies can be allowed to nurse from the affected gland when it is uncovered."

In fact, if the pups won't drink from it, you should be milking it out to keep it clear:  "Often, veterinarians recommend that you apply warm compress and milk out the affected gland(s) several times daily to keep the milk ducts clear. " https://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/endocrine/c_dg_mastitis?page=2

Please don't just unquestioningly do what your vet advises, many vets know nothing about reproduction and issues surrounding it.  Always double-check any advice given online and with experienced breeders.

Thank you all so much for your help, that's why I thought it'd ask on here as "keepong it covered and the pups off it" didn't sit right with me. Ive uncovered the offending teat and expressed it a bit. It's pure milk that's coming out, no blood/discharge or discoloured milk and it's no where near as hard as yesterday so I think the AB's are working great. She seems better in herself and pups have all put on at least 20g since yesterday. So all looking good at the moment. Thankyou all

> Hmmm...not advise I would follow. Having bred litters & been a dairy farmer the offending teat needs to be kept going or it will cease to function.

There is a huge difference between  a congested gland, that needs expressing, in other words heading towards mastitis, to full blown case with gland where there is infection.

As you have said in the first case you do need the gland utillised in the latter the pups will not go near it and if they did it would make them ill I suspect.

I have had both scenarios where I have been able to forstall true mastitis with hot and cold compresses  and rotating pups, hard work over about 48 hours constantly, and AB's avoided.

Have also had the latter where infection had taken hold, bitch with temperature needing AB's.

In all cases pups kept on bitch to feed with appropriate safe AB's

It is important to milk the gland, if the milk is clean, then get pups on it, if infected you need to get it out, or the glqand will rupture, which is not nice, but once the pus drains heals remarkably quickly (have ahd both, where I was pulling off milk that looked like tomatoe soup, adn the last where i could nto express it and it burst).

Probably due to having the experience of being Dairy farmers along with breeding, we have never had a bitch with mastitis(smallest litter 4, largest 9)...or perhaps we have been lucky??

Calves were fab for getting rid of teats with mastitis(on a cow obviously)...we had a few cows which suckled calves, running along side the ones machine milked.

In 23 litters only had the two cases one in 2006 (came on very fast on Boxing day) and the other two years ago, where I just couldn't express it.

Update**
I'm expressing the infected teat and at first milk comes out looking quite healthy then after a few pumps it still comes out milk but with a little discharge stuff which I'm guessing is the bad stuff. It's got a faint yellowy/light caramel colour, thicker consistency and no odour. I express it until the bitch seems uncomfortable and then go back to it in a few hours and repeat. The whole nipple/breast area seems alot less hard compared to what it was. It feels like there is only a slight part that is still firmish. I'm keeping the pups off it and making sure they go on other teats. As the milk runs white on them. But pups still have a bit of diarrhea. They pups are still gaining weight and look fine, do u think it could be the AB's causing the diarrhoea?

By Strut  Date 17.07.18 12:09 BST

Update**
I'm expressing the infected teat and at first milk comes out looking quite healthy then after a few pumps it still comes out milk but with a little discharge stuff which I'm guessing is the bad stuff. It's got a faint yellowy/light caramel colour, thicker consistency and no odour. I express it until the bitch seems uncomfortable and then go back to it in a few hours and repeat. The whole nipple/breast area seems alot less hard compared to what it was. It feels like there is only a slight part that is still firmish. I'm keeping the pups off it and making sure they go on other teats. As the milk runs white on them. But pups still have a bit of diarrhea. They pups are still gaining weight and look fine, do u think it could be the AB's causing the diarrhoea?

Yes, ABs given to the mum can easily cause diarrhoea.  I would ensure you're giving lots of probiotics to mum as well.  When you wean the pups, add probiotics to their food also. 

Current research in humans shows that the microbiome is incredibly important for health, and it is at its most susceptible when it is first being formed - as it is now for your pups.  ABs will be killing off all the good bacteria and affecting the microbiome of their guts...

I gave my bitch 15ml of protexin pro-kolin about 7 days ago in doses of 3ml per dose 2 doses a day. Do u think I should get some more from the vet and continue with it for longer?

Yes, you need ongoing probiotics throughout the whole course of ABs and then for at least 3 weeks afterwards, to help rebuild the gut microbiome.  And also added to the pups' food.

You will probably find using Protexin that long, is quite expensive.  It is also mostly enteroccocus faecium - which there is actually very little research into, and some of the research actually suggests it's not a good one to be adding.  Most canine probiotics are enterrococcus faecium, though - including Purina Fortiflora. 

I would go for adding a probiotic with as wide a range of different probiotics as possible, since research shows that gut diversity is important.  Here is one you might want to try:  https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07417V8NG/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 

In the meantime, just give any you can pick up quickly - including whatever the vet sells, or more Protexin. 

Many people recommend adding yoghurt to the dog's food, but research shows that the powerfully acid environment of the dog's stomach destroys any probiotics in yoghurt before they get to where they're needed, in the gut. 

When giving probiotics, prioritise the time in between AB doses - so if you give ABs at breakfast and before bed, give probiotics at lunch and tea - or they get nuked by the ABs.  And once the ABs have finished, it's probiotics split across every meal for 2-3 weeks.

Thankyou for your help. I clicked the link you sent and I had a look, is that probiotic ok to use on puppies or am I to just use that on the mum. The pups are only 11 days old. I have been back to the vets today and got some more pro-kolin and the vet has said to give direct to puppies and mum also. Which proved difficult as it's like a paste and they are used to milk consistency. I'm hoping their diarrhoea goes away soon as they have had it for 3 days now. I've weighed them daily and took their temp daily and they have gained a decent amount of weight and their temp is no higher that 37.5 degrees Celsius. They seem really healthy. I'm wondering whether it's the antibiotics that causing the diarrhoea in the pups as mum is fine toilet wise (a but soft but fine)

If it started when mum began ABs, it is very likely to be the ABs causing it.  I guess there is a chance mum picked up something at the vet’s and brought it back to the puppies, but her own immune system is strong enough to fight it off - but it’s more likely to be the ABs themselves.

Personally, I wouldn’t give anything to the puppies besides mum’s milk, until they start weaning.  At which time, it’s fine for probiotics to be added to their food. 

If they are gaining weight daily, I wouldn’t worry too much about the diarrhoea and would wait to see what happens when you wean them and with the first worming at 3 weeks or so.

> do u think it could be the AB's causing the diarrhoea?

Yes.