Hello,

My girl was scanned at the vets today on their advice.  This is her first little (mine too)
He scanned low down between her back legs as he said ‘there’s less hair there.
The scan confirmed multiple sacs but he was concerned by the lack of development, saying that normally you can see the ribs and structure and as he can’t see this to go back in 2 weeks time but that it might be that she is reabsorbing them.

Now, we are 30 days post 1st mating, so only 28 days post 2nd, which means that if fertilisation didn’t happen immediately she could in fact only be about 25 days pregnant?

I’m just wandering really how much you would expect to see in a scan at this stage? ( I have now actually booked a private scanner to visit me at home next week)

She is subdued, pink teats, with two of them looking like they’ve popped out, and has a clear (non smelling) discharge

Rubbish he would not be able to see ribs at 30 days, they aren't there yet they don't show up until 6 weeks when the bones start to calcify, at that stage you may see heartbeats, though if the bitch took late maybe not yet, though would at 35 days.

Also scanning low in the abdomen will not be effective unless it's a large litter as most bitches carry high up towards the ribs.

https://www.dog-health-guide.org/dogpregnancy.html
"•Ultrasound: Can detect fluid filled uterine vesicles as days 18 - 20 after ovulation. Heart beat can be detected by day 23 to 24, with a clear heartbeat on day 25. This is the most definitive method for confirming pregnancy in dogs. Tests are usually scheduled for day 28-30 for a clear reading and to avoid error introduced by looking for the heartbeat too early."

Thank you for replying,
I did think it didn’t sound right, he just didn’t fill me with much confidence, so I came home and booked a private scan for next week!
I’m still hopeful!!

Your vet doesn't know what they're talking about. You'd be far better off finding either a sheep scanner that also does bitches or someone who specialises in scanning.

> You'd be far better off finding either a sheep scanner that also does bitches or someone who specialises in scanning.

Or leaving it alone and let her be pregnant in peace?  I do agree that to scan low is pretty much pointless - my girls most often carried their litters up under the ribcage, and they only became apparent (other than seeing movement by around 7 weeks, teat changes and maybe temperament changes) if there was a large litter or before they were due to be whelped.

When did all this need to scan begin because much as I do appreciate people have to make plans, I'd way rather leave all this alone and just plan for a litter in 9 weeks time, from mating (or thereabouts).   If I had scanned and been told my bitches were empty, I'd still be looking at around their due date!   And a scan only confirms, or not, a pregnancy at the time of the scan after all.

I know, preaching to the unconvertable

I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I scan is to help me manage my waiting list. If there are no pups on the way I can let people know so they have the choice of whether to wait or look elsewhere. Oh yes and because patience isn't something I was blessed with

Dont breed dogs, but my sheep are scanned by a non vet scanner, very experienced & he does lots of bitches too & is rarely wrong in diagnosing pregnancy( never in sheep). He won't guess at numbers for bitches but will say what he sees.

Lots if people don't scan their bitches despite what some people seem to think. It's a tool & no one is forcing breeders to scan, but it's not a fad. A trialling I know scans his bitches just in case they have missed so that he can plan his trialling entries. He won't trial if he has a bitch in whelp

I take my girls to a specialist scanner - at 28 days she can see heartbeats and sizes etc.  She won't give exact numbers as you can't scan through the rib cage.
I do like to scan my girls so I have a rough idea of numbers and feel happier about managing their feed in the later stages

> I can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I scan is to help me manage my waiting list. If there are no pups on the way I can let people know so they have the choice of whether to wait or look elsewhere

Re waiting lists - hah.   From experience both in the UK and overseas, nine times out of ten when I called those on my list back, they'd gone elsewhere in any case

> Oh yes and because patience isn't something I was blessed with <img class="fsm fsm_wink" src="/images/epx.png" title="wink" alt="" />

But ....... a scan only shows what's there and isn't there AT THE TIME OF THE SCAN.   Doesn't mean the bitch will always carry to term

" ...... and feel happier about managing their feed in the later stages"

I don't see how that applies.   I tried to keep my in-whelp bitches lean rather than getting fat from food - puppies take all they need from mum before (and after!) birth.   In the later stages, mine didn't want much food (no room!) in any case and I'd always cut back on bulk when in the later stages, a pregnancy was visually obvious.   They had more smaller meals which weren't all bulk.

Even if I was stilll breeding, I'd still not bother with scans.   Jmo.

> I scan is to help me manage my waiting list. If there are no pups on the way I can let people know so they have the choice of whether to wait or look elsewhere.

Ditto, especially with my breed where there are now only around 50 pups registered a year, and puppies tend to be feast or famine, fairer to not keep people hanging on waiting if there might be a puppy or spot on waiting lsit with someone else.

It also means I can enter shows with entries closing quite a time in advance, if a bitch has missed it is nice to be able to get her into the next show.

I also adjust feeding.  I like to keep my bitches fit and lean so they don't carry nay excess, and would need extra from 6 weeks in whelp.

Whatever happened to pregnancy detection by palpation? This was the method used long before scanning came along, and served me well enough when I was breeding. With the bitch relaxed at home, we were only rarely wrong, and could usually tell approximately how many embryos there were.

> It also means I can enter shows with entries closing quite a time in advance, if a bitch has missed it is nice to be able to get her into the next show.<br />

Different strokes for different folks .   We rarely had more than one, or two in the show-ring at the same time.   And we tended not to move on to maternity duties until the relevant bitch had achieved all I wanted of her, in her show career.   I did have my UK Ch. out, in veterans (Crufts) after her first and only litter however.  But in general a show career and the career in the whelping box didn't overlap.

And again I didn't up the intake of food for the entire pregnancy - just varying what she had to eat (no bulk).    Until I had the litter on the ground and could see how many she was going to be catering for.

"Whatever happened to pregnancy detection by palpation? This was the method used long before scanning came along, and served me well enough when I was breeding. "

Indeed.   Times change

> But in general a show career and the career in the whelping box didn't overlap.

We have a slow maturing breed and expect them to be capable of winning CC's well into Veteran years, in fact due to maternal duties my champions have done most of their winning between or after.

> "Whatever happened to pregnancy detection by palpation?

Lost art, did have one vet and a breeder vet nurse very good at this.

There is a slight risk if you don't know what you're doing and you're squeezing about doing palpation, enough that I just wouldn't want to risk it.  One thing to have someone who's rubbish at ultrasounds - worst case scenario is an inaccurate result.  Another thing entirely if someone is rubbish at palpation...

>Or leaving it alone and let her be pregnant in peace? 

Totally agree MamaBas!