Hi there.

I have been lied to as a breeder.
One of my pups owners is not listening to the advice I am giving her and is having numerous family members and friends swamp puppy the minute they got puppy home after a 3hr journey.
Puppy is understandably overwhelmed and stressed so stopped eating.
Owner then added tinned sardines, tripe, tinned wet food, eggs and goodness knows what else all withing the 1st 24hrs.
I have advised no visitors for at least a few days until puppy settles, stick to her kibble she has been happily eating for 4 weeks since weaning and just moisten it with warm water or warmed goats milk but don't keep adding a plethora of foods to her diet. Don't make.any dietary changes until she has had time to settle and make them gradually.
She lied claiming puppy had been seen by a vet...it hadn't and she claims she cannot afford to budget for a vet.
I am paying for puppy to be seen by a vet today.
I am gravely concerned about puppy's welfare.
I have not yet signed the transfer of ownership so surely puppy is still legally mine. Owner is refusing to return puppy to me.
Does anyone have any experience in getting a puppy back?

I am very much afraid once the money has been accepted the puppy is no longer yours. a KC transfer of ownership does not make you legally the owner. I would suggest you bite back your anger and bend over backwards to make sure this puppy gets the care it needs and hope that they do not do too much damage. I am sure many new owners are the same and pups survive and are fine. If you are paying the vet bill then I would endeavour to be present at the consultation. Keep the owners on your side otherwise they will cut contact and that will be far worse. Offer to take the puppy back and refund all costs. If they refuse there is little you can do I am afraid.

> I am very much afraid once the money has been accepted the puppy is no longer yours. a KC transfer of ownership does not make you legally the owner.

I totally agree with this, and the rest of this advice.   I had an occasion when, on my normal advice post sale, a new puppy owner took their puppy to their vet within the first 48 hours (bought Saturday, vet Monday).   That vet told them the puppy was 'all wrong' and he wanted to do extensive x-rays.   They phoned me, obviously and I asked them to bring the puppy back to me so we could all go see MY vet.  He'd gone with a health check.  They refused, so the puppy had these x-rays done (on the Wednesday of that week).   He spent all day with that vet and what was found - NOTHING!!   Not only was I furious that this happened, but weeping for a puppy who had only just gone out into the world.   And sadly all that soured my relationship with these people, who I let have the pup at 8 weeks (when I normally held them to 10 weeks) because they'd had a Basset before.

The only other occasion I had, when I was lucky, was when I homed an older puppy after she really wasn't up to show/breeding and I'd just (unusually for me but they were litter sisters) had another litter that year, 4 months later, and those puppies were better - I wanted to keep 2.     Anyhow that later homing didn't work out because the older squaddie son had been kicking a football at her and scared her stiff.   I went to see what was going on and persuaded her then owner to let me have her back, for a refund minus a small boarding fee until I could find another home for her.  As it happened a wonderful home appeared.  Later that woman came at me saying she wished she'd not let me have her back as 'she could have been sold for much more' had she done that herself.

These events can happen, sadly and for me is the worst part of breeding and having to sell those puppies surplus to what I needed! 

I think best you can do, as said, is try to take these people on board and point them in the 'right direction'.   And for sure, try to be there if you are picking up vet bills for that puppy, which is surely your right!!   Is the vet visit for the normal post-purchase health check?

Sadly in the eyes of the law once money has been exchanged for a puppy you are no longer the owner & the buyer can do whatever they see fit, within the Law of course.

In our last litter, I had a couple who had previously owned these two specific breeds of dog, together.  (Ours was one of these breeds.)  I vetted them and one of their questions was 'how long do we need to wait before getting another dog?' - to which I said 18 months at the very minimum and they appeared to accept that and never mentioned it again.

They collected the puppy, gave us a gift, we spoke to them for 3 hours at their puppy pick-up, just chatting.  They took puppy home - about 9 hours away - and about 4 days later, I heard from a trainer friend of mine that she had been booked to do a 1-2-1 with these people and their TWO puppies - ours and the other breed of puppy they had owned at the same time before!!!!

I was livid because under no circumstances would we have placed a puppy in a household with another puppy, and the other puppy was older and they had already had him for about 4-5 weeks before collecting ours - and they hadn't mentioned this at all in our 3 hour talk with them and had concealed it, because they knew there was no way we would place a puppy with them, if we'd known.  Clearly they missed their previous two dogs and were trying to recreate the same household!?!?!  They had filled in our questionnaire before they had brought home the other puppy so strictly speaking they hadn't lied on the questionnaire when they said they had no other dogs - but in reality, they had deceived us.

So I emailed them and phoned them and tried to explain why it was such a bad idea to raise two puppies together.  I was pretty livid we had been lied to by omission.  Fortunately perhaps they had been realising this for themselves, or maybe they had an iota of decency about lying to us - because they agreed the next day to give up the puppy.  Cue me then sending another friend who lived nearby round to them to get the puppy out of there ASAP before they changed their minds.  It was all a total nightmare.

But no, I couldn't have done anything about it if I hadn't been able to convince them to give up the puppy.  I think you can try to reason with them and make points like - if they can't afford a vet, how are they planning to pay for any treatment the puppy needs, dogs are expensive etc etc - but if they don't want to hear your points then legally there's nothing you can do.  The ownership documents don't really mean anything in terms of legal ownership - possession is 9 tenths of the law and all that.  You could withhold the ownership documents and try to use that in bargaining or at least making sure they can't breed from the puppy in future and register the offspring....

Withholding the papers would be considered wrong in the eyes of the law, the pup was sold with papers and should have gone with it. Nothing will stop them breeding if they wish and not registering pups.

That's true, if the pup was sold with papers.  (Why didn't the papers go with the pup?)

Unfortunately people lie...we cant always tell & even the best of us are caught out by liars....

I was caught out by a liar...I will always regret homing an older dog to this person(I tried hard to get this dog back)....this event was the start of knock on events in my life that sent me on a slippery slope, taking a long time to come out of. It nearly put me off breeding for life but I did breed once more but those who managed to get one of my pups had to jump through hoops big time & back again!!

kc papers are not proof of ownership, a microchip isn't even proof of ownership. I'm afraid once sold the pup is their property so you cant force them to return it.
Other than saying they cant afford to take it to the vets it sounds like they are just over excited and ancious new owners. id guess people suggested trying the new foods in an attempt to get it eating after missing its first meals. I must have called my girls breeder a bunch of times with worries in the first two weeks. But not being able to afford a check up at the vets is what would worrie me.

If your worried about their ability to care for it have you offered them a full refund if they returned the pup? if not and money is tight for them they may jump at that offer.

Many thanks all for comments.
The papers didn't go with pup as they hadn't arrived when she wished to collect pup.
We clashed a couple of times with the names and missing documents, KC registration can either be very smooth and straight forward or not. It wasn't this time.
I would never normally hold onto paperwork but I have done in this case to persuade owner to have puppy seen by a vet, which I am paying for.
Actually I am concerned about her behaviour in overwhelming puppy, the breed is a sensitive breed, this pup is now at risk of growing up to be reactive, anxious and nervous.
We all know such dogs don't fair well.
But certainly her inability to budget to have puppy that is so stressed she isn't eating seen by a vet, the fact that she lied to me claiming puppy had been seen when it hadn't.....concerns me greatly.
I have sought legal advice from dogs law firm.
Sadly the welfare of dogs and puppies is of little concern legally and I have.no recourse.
I strongly advise all breeders to ask to see a wage slip from prospective owners and there's no reason people shouldn't be willing to have an insurance policy in place for when they collect their puppy (asides from the few weeks free gimmick). People lie.
My 1st experience of this, it's rotten.
It has put me off ever breeding again.
I could not have been more careful on vetting owners.
But it seems you can be lied to and duped.
I have put an endorsement on pups pedigree I always do with every pup, however it doesn't stop people breeding and just not registering.
If she can lie and ignore any and all advice and can fail to put puppy's needs first.....what else is she capable of doing.
It's deeply upsetting.

And of course I have offered a full refund, along with offering to reimburse her for her travel costs and offered a considerable sum ontop to have puppy returned.
I will pay anything to get her back.
It was refused.

Facebook Replies:

Edward Wisniewski says: No reg is not proof of ownership why pay for vet for her to ignore tgem too. Just take the pup back

-- Sharon Liggins says:  Did you get her to sign a contract?

-- Sue Parr says: contracts are not worth the paper they are written on .

-- Sharon Liggins says: Each to their own but I have successfully gotten 2 of my dogs I bred back when conditions had been broken, most folks won't fork out solicitor fees to contest it.

-- Andrea Keepence-Keyte says:  And I was advised by a solicitor that you should still do puppy contracts as it makes people think twice!

Una O'Neill says: take pup back

Facebook Replies:

Fiona Kerrigan Says:  Report the owner and ask for pup bk. Don’t take it into ur own hands as it could go drastically wrong and you would need to give a full refund for the payment the person has made and if payment has been made then legally the person will own the dog now...See more

-- Catherine Lewis says: Report to who?

---- Fiona Kerrigan says: Catherine Lewis to animal cruelty as to how the new owners are being towards the puppy x

-----Jackie Rylett says: Fiona Kerrigan not exactly cruel is it, especially if they have gone to vets.

Jayne Stark says:  Ask KC for advice. they surely have a legal team to advise you. Offer to take her back to have some more time with Mum and then assess the situation for yourself. I agree with Fiona, that you should give her a full refund.

Facebook Replies:

Dawn Riddell says:  All you can do in the circumstances, is offer to take the puppy back for a refund. The offer might be accepted and it might not but the main thing is not to let the relationship with these owners deteriorate. If you do they are likely to cut contact with you and you'll never know what happens to the puppy. If you are paying the vet bill, then go with them to the vet and show your support and keep yourself in the loop. Keep it friendly and positive or you'll lose out.

Roo Mullan says: If you message me your number privately I will ask someone to speak to you x

Emma Judson says:  They paid for the puppy and you accepted that money therefore no, the puppy is not yours, it is their puppy now. They are also not in any way obliged to follow your advice whatsoever. So you need to be patient and careful with them, because aggressive behaviour or demands to take teh puppy back are likely to simply result in them ending any contact with you, and with that will go any chance you had of influencing things in this puppies life.

Facebook Replies:

Johnny McDougall says: I cant believe what im reading here I really cant! To me this sounds like breeders being to full of their own importance. Its a bloody puppy, im sure people know what to do. You are a dog breeder - not a professor of the spieces.

-- Sue Parr says:  Seriously!

-- Angie Lloyd says: What an ignorant comment to make the breeder is rightfully showing concerns for the puppys well being and rightly so!!

-- Claire Sharp  You can read above that they clearly don't know what to do? The breeder is right to be concerned as they've inadvertently sold to a moron. Aside from trying to breed typey, healthy dogs, one of our top priorities is to ensure that we find the best possible homes for the pups we breed. There are plenty of people out there who stop caring the second they've got a wedge of cash in their sweaty palms, sounds like you're one of those Johnny. :( Oh and it's "species"

-- Ruth Francis  What an idiotic comment.

-- Johnny McDougall  More people liked my comment than not. Enough said.

-- Catriona Clarke  2 out of 10, mmmmm do the maths, that really isn't rocket science

-- David Woodward  Not a breeder but a new puppy owner some 14 mths ago, for what it's worth Claire Sharps help, advise, and general caring for her pup post purchase was exemplary, I think it shows what a quality breeder does for the pups she breeds and people should be very careful if they criticise helpful comments from a professional like her ..

Facebook Replies:

Susan Casey says: I understand what your saying but unfortunately a new puppy is like a baby everyone wants to be around it, maybe these people have not had a dog before so they are just trying to work things out I would let them be for a while at the end of the day it’s their pup now

Theresa Willis says: If this was me i would say to the ower i will pay vet bill but i will take it to my vets . Other than that if the ower doesn't want the dog anymore I would take the dog back. Its I difficult one because you don't want to lose contact with the owner with the puppy so I would tread carefully. See what the vet says and go from there .good luck

Gail Walker says:  Can you offer the full payment for puppy back and hopefully this may jolt them into giving the baby back to you...i hope so for the puppy's sake...poor wee thing!!

Louise Hay says:  If this is the case what on earth was your vetting process.

Facebook Replies:

Brooke Ferguson says: If that’s a concern, maybe check the person over more before selling the dog to them...

Facebook Replies:

Pauline Fox Eeles says: if she cant afford vet bills then she shouldnt have got a dog if i where you id try like hell to get it back

-- Susan Casey says: But she has no grounds Pauline other than the fact she doesn’t approve of the way she’s feeding it, I’m buying my puppy soon and I sure as hell would raise my pup the way I want to,

-- Pauline Fox Eeles says: sound like she cant afford to look after a pup ive had my share of dogs and to look after them properly you need to be able to pay your own vet bills

-- Susan Casey says: Well she must have had the funds to buy it, but you can’t tell people how to look after their dogs she’s bought the dog right or wrong it’s her dog, but I wouldn’t be buying a dog if I thought I’d have to raise it their way

Facebook Replies:

Claire Sharp says: ARGH!! Just reading this makes my blood boil. This is the worse part of breeding. Moron owners. I sold a puppy to someone who took her home, decided she was a bit quiet so took her to the vets. The vet kept her in for the night for observation. So my puppy, who had already suffered the wrench from her siblings, then ended up in a crate at the vets on her first night away from here. There was nothing wrong with the pup. Probably best the owner lived a fair distance from me as I think I'd be doing time otherwise. Sadly, you have no legal way of getting the pup back if money has swapped hands.

Bev Dalgleish says:  I am not a breeder....but I love dogs...particularly choccie labs. We have had two sets of two males each time and in both cases we were vetted very intensely - almost to the extreme and each of our contracts were very tight. Just saying

Jane Marie says:  Why on earth would you buy a puppy knowing you couldn't budget for the vets bills? That poor puppy's tummy must be swirling.

Joanne Forsbrook says:  As a breeder we want the puppies to go to the best homes possible, this person is not being responsible, the puppy should not be overwhelmed as soon as getting home and certainly the food shouldn’t be changed that frequently, the puppies tummy must be in turmoil, the new food should be introduced slowly. Anyone that can’t afford to take the dogs to the vet should not own a dog!! I would be mortified if this happened to me, as breeders we love our pups, it’s not easy breeding dogs and all that it entails to have all your good work undone by some moron who hasn’t got a clue!!!!

Facebook Replies:

Johnny McDougall says:  Me and my wife had a dealing with an abosulute arsehole of a Toy Poodle breeder in Ayrshire. We agreed to go to the house one day and choose a puppy with our 2 wee kiddies. The house was over run with dogs, and i nean over run - no exagiration. They all had horrible eyes like they were wet and not very healthy looking. Anyway, wee spend a while there and decided on a puppy. They then called us a while later, maybe a few weeks, to go back and collect the puppy. It gad been arranged for the Friday evening after I finished work. So after I finished I went to pick up my wife and kids, and headed down from Glasgow to Ayrshire in the car. The weather was really bad withtge rain lashing it down. We eventually came off the motorway to the little B roads and it was dark. So with the slow moving traffic on the roads due to the rain coupled with the visibility conditions and not knowing where I was going, with only my phone as a sat-nav, the breeder kept ringing and ringing my phone - which i couldnt answer as I was using it as a sat-nav, plus i dont use my phone when im driving and especially not when i have my wife and kids in the car in vad conditions. So admitedly, we arrived a little late from the planned time. So when we got to the house, the lady was on her high horse about being late and how "shes not happy about disturbing and upsetting the babies as they were settled for the night" i remember thinking to myself, what a cheeky baatard as this loony had no regard for our safety while driving as she gave me hell for not answering my phone, yet she was way over the top about is turning up before 7pm for the puppy! And then went on to insult my wife and I by insinuating that a puppy is just as much work as real baby and that could we cope with it being up all night crying etc etc etc. So after all her ranting and raving she decided she wasnt giving us the puppy so my wife and esoecially kids were absolutely devastated. If this crackpot had of been a man, id have slapped them! This initial post reminded me of our bad experience.

Rachel Savage says:  The point of legal ownership is when the microchip is transferred by breeder to new pet owner. You have no legal right to get the dog back. Also why would you pay for a vet when the dog is no longer yours. You could politely ask for the puppy back and give full refund otherwise not a lot you can do. If she does then you must transfer microchip into your name. As much as we have feelings for our babies the law is clear. K c ownership is not a legal ownership of dog. Sorry to say

-- Jackie Rylett says:  microchips do not prove legal ownership. Once monies have changed hands regardless of chip still being in breeders name the sale is complete

Facebook Replies:

Liz Swainston says:  We have turned people away that we thought unsuitable unfotunatley one will sometimes slip through the net you obviously really care about your puppies and their wefare i hope it all workes out for you and your puppy what is the point of going out of your way to help these people when they don't take a blind bit of notice best of luck

Suzie Caton says:  Jesus H Christ. I’m NOT a breeder but I’m a responsible dog owner. This post is ridiculous to the point where I actually thought it was a joke. I suggest the ‘breeder’ returns the dog immediately or run the risk of being on a theft charge. Have they no sense? It’s theft, seek counselling and stop ‘breeding’ dogs... please.

Avril Young says:  You can only advise and hope they follow... Sadly they bought pup and its now up to them.. Even if your name is still on the registration paper... Sadly, there is no protection for a breeder in a contract and if they wont give puppy back i am horrified to say that you have to just accept that (been there sadly). I am sure they will love puppy and one day realise their actions caused distress and discomfort to their puppy but even when they do, dont expect an apology... The reason i will never breed a second litter..

Cat Hepburn says:  It's their puppy now... yes they have made mistakes but it's not the end of the world! All you can do is reiterate advice, remind them of best practice and remind them of returns policy if they are too overwhelmed and change their mind. People aren't perfect, neither are you. And a few hiccups do *not* forgive theft.

Sharon Hopewell says:  Sadly these people think they are doing the right thing and all you can do is leave them to it - the puppy isnt in danger if they are giving her different foods it is because they are concerned that she is not eating Unfortunately you can write it out in blood but once they have paid the money and walk out of your house you can not do anything about it If the puppy is ill and they are willing to return her then happy days but until they realise the mistakes they are making there is nothing you can do We all have to go with out gut instincts and obviously they have been so excited about the pups arrival they couldn't wait for family and freinds to meet her again nothing you can do i am afraid I am sure once they all setle down she will have a loving home with people who care about her or they will find they can't cope and bring her back  Try not to fall out with them as you want them to trust you so if it doesn't work out they will bring her back to you , fall out with them and she could end up anywhere

How did the vet visit go?

Might be worth finding them a good class to socialise the pup once ready to suggest to them, although if they can't/won't pay for a vet would they pay for a class. Maby a ringcraft class there much cheaper here only a couple pound a time.

I always had a Sale Contract in place BUT as has been suggested, all too often they are 'not worth the paper they are written on'.   It should show intent at least but I sold two puppies (male and female) to a fellow breeder, giving her pick of the 2 males as I knew that at the time, she was going to be able to campaign them when I wasn't.   The Sale Contract on the male included a clause making it clear that I wanted one free stud from him (although I kept the other 2 puppies, male and female again) as I felt he was going to suite one of my other bitches better than the male I'd kept.   What happened - she sold both out of the country to another breeder before I was able to take the service I wanted from the male.    'Not worth the paper they are written on' ..... clearly!!   I had no inkling that they were leaving the country until I had a phone-call from this woman telling me 'they'd gone'.   Knowing where they'd gone, I was horrified.

Doing a litter, investing time and heartbreak (which it was in the case of this particular litter - 4 survivors out of 9 following vet neglect) is usually a satisfying thing to do.   But this experience told me never again to trust a fellow breeder.

Oh and because I did trust, I didn't endorse those two - would that I'd put a not for export on them!!

Wow, I can't believe how rude and ignorant some of the fb replies were. You have clearly done everything you possibly can do to get the pup back, nobody could have done more, and the entire reason for wanting it back is because you CARE. I feel for you, I really do.

I'm not even going to read those FB replies

Look, I think one possible way to REDUCE the chances of this happening (you can't prevent it totally), is to try to know people for a longer period of time.  Like - from as soon as the mating occurs, be in contact with people on the list, encourage contact from them, encourage them to ask questions, do a phone interview, google where their house is(!), and try to get a sense of the sort of people they are.  Sometimes your judgements will be wrong, but that's going to happen.  Better to rule people out if you're not sure, than rule them in.  It won't get around people deliberately deceiving or lying to you, but it does go a long way. 

It's the people who contact you when the pups are 6-8 weeks old and there isn't time to form that relationship with over time, that I think we need to be extra careful with.

That's why I have never dabbled with facebook etc

I don't DO facebook either!!

About being deceived.   The breeder/good friend of mine who I got my foundation bitch from was duped like this - almost.  She'd had a 'lovely' family come to look at her puppies.  They bought one and went off through her gate to the car - one of the children had left something behind so my friend rushed out to catch them before they left ..... just as they were putting her precious puppy into the boot of the car WITH A LOAD OF OTHER PUPPIES.   This was somebody who wasn't a novice breeder/seller.   What would have been the fate of that puppy had she not had to go back outside, heaven knows.

Getting to know the people ahead of time is always best, and we made some good friends that way, regardless of having one of our puppies.

Facebook Replies:

Tracey Smith says:  If they can't budget for the vet how will they pay for treatment in the future, very worrying. But I'm not sure if you can get the pup back unless it was voluntary. Not a good situation. Good luck &hope the pup is beta soon x

Does anyone have any experience in getting a puppy back?

In law Carol, dogs are property and 'in law' you've sold property, same laws apply to a dog as any other property, eg cigarrett lighters, coat, TV ect etc.

Many thanks Goldmali.
I have been shocked too, my first post on here and it will be my last. The backlash is just rude at times.

To clarify for others....I have not committed theft of any sorts whatsoever.
I vetted the owner very carefully.
We did befriend and had numerous conversations and met up.

Unfortunately I was lied to.

I do not dictate to anyone how they should raise their puppy.
I advise but not dictate.

I have concerns regarding this owner and I am concerned about the ongoing welfare of this puppy.
As a responsible breeder I view it as my duty to ensure all puppies are being cared for.
An owner who lies about getting veterinary treatment for their pup then states they cannot afford vet treatment for a puppy that has not eaten properly for over 5 days is a concern for me. I have a right to be concerned about this.

I have paid the vet directly for a vet consultation and the vet has advised the owners giving the exact same advice as myself. Puppy has dropped 20%of her bodyweight from last week.
I have reached an agreement with the vet and the owner and I will cover all and any vet costs puppy requires.
Both now and in the future.
As sadly I have no legal rights to have puppy returned.

Yes there was a contract, but it's not legally binding.
Yes I offered to have puppy back for a few days to feed her up and let her de-stress with her mum and sibling.

I have done all I can.

For those who comment on negative experiences with their breeders, I am sure it happens and I am sorry you experienced that, but I am no rotter of a breeder.

For those whom have had similar experiences as myself, it's horrid and thanks for sharing.

I am sorry u feel some here have been rude to you that's sad. Most of the  unpleasant comments have been copied from fb and are not members here
I  don't think those should have been bought here .leave in fb. or delete they arnt helping at al


U have done all u could imo and more given what has occurred. I do hope pup is ok and soon recovers the lost weight and grows well
  when u say all vet costs
.I assume that is just for this matter and not for life? 
Such a dreadful situation to be in and something every breeder must  dreads.no one can really know if someone is twisting the truth and I have no idea how u can guarantee someone either has money for vets bills or Indeed would use it to seek advice

I really feel for you. Dont forget some of the posts uploaded from admin have been posted on fb. Ignore them.
I know some may go and steal said puppy but the best way is to keep them onside as you are and hopefully they will find it all too much and ask for their money back and at which point you will.
Last thing is getting on the bad side of them becauae you want to know what is happening with the pup and not having them shut you out.

Furriefriends

I had no idea this would be posted on Facebook.

How do I delete my original post please? And in doing so will that also remove it from Facebook do you know?

> to REDUCE the chances of this happening (you can't prevent it totally), is to try to know people for a longer period of time.  Like - from as soon as the mating occurs,

> It's the people who contact you when the pups are 6-8 weeks old and there isn't time to form that relationship with over time, that I think we need to be extra careful with.

So agree with this, over the years I have found far fewer homes not working out when I have had people waiting and forming a relationship with me well in advance of a litter.

Contact admin and ask them to delete in both places. I imagine it's the same admin for both if not they shpild be able to get the the fb group admin to delete there as well.  It's an easy process for an admin

Thank you.

Relationship was formed whilst my bitch was scanned and confirmed pregnant

I vetted extensively

>I have reached an agreement with the vet and the owner and I will cover all and any vet costs puppy requires.

>Both now and in the future.
>As sadly I have no legal rights to have puppy returned.

I wouldn't have done this....

I would have said:  Return puppy to me, and I will give full refund and obviously pay for any treatment needed.  (This may have helped with getting the puppy back, as leverage.)  Or keep puppy and pay the costs yourself. 

Worse of both worlds to see the pup remain there and have to pay for it as well, with no limit in terms of time or treatment???

Sadly we cannot guarantee anything.

Try to keep owners on side, (through gritted teeth) so f thing go pear shaped she come back to you, as if you don't they will just move her on without your knowledge.

Threads are not deleted once they have had replies. It would be grossly unfair to those members whom have taken the time and effort to post replies. Please remember that if you post on a public forum, then you must expect replies of all kinds. Some comments may not be welcome or what you would expect, but that is the nature of the beast. Please ignore such comments. Finally, please remember that many people read the forum looking for answers to their question. For whatever reason, they may not wish to post in their own right. There may be comments that are helpful and valid to such people, that may not be helpful to you.

Admin, does the OP get asked if they don't mind their thread being put on FB?

Whilst I fully understand this is a public forum, some members of Champdogs are not members of FB, therefore can't (if they even wished to) reply to any comments of their post.

I too am not on Facebook and it never occurred to me that posts made to this forum would be posted elsewhere. The only way to reply to Facebook comments would be to join and that's not happening .
Lately champdogs has been much quieter,with a handful of posters beginning to dominate and I wonder if Admin see posting the Facebook replies as a way of getting things moving again.

fb replies have been added for a long time. until now it had never occurred to me that this could be a problem and I can see why that maybe the case . At least on fb you can delete you own thread although its frowned upon in some groups. It is possible however to ask  fb group admin to delete individual replies or the whole thread . Most fb groups the admins will delete nasty comments anyway.  in fact you have more freedom in most fb groups to monitor and change your own threads

I don't like it that comments on this forum, appear on Facebook.   Why?!

MamaBas, it is the first post made which can sometimes appear on FB not the comments made on here. So when you see a red star by the thread title, these are the ones which appear on FB(only the first one made by the OP).

As a breeder I have no legal right to have puppy returned.
I can ask as I have done, but there is no legal obligation to.

Meeting the veterinary costs, it gives me some peace of mind that puppy has open access to veterinary care.

Thank you Lexy.

I had no idea that posts made on this forum as a member of Champdogs having paid a fee to join would be shared on Facebook.

I reviewed Champdogs privacy policy both before posting and since and I can see no mention on the fact that posts would be shared on Facebook.

Admin have kindly responded to my message enquiry and the post will remain on the forum and on Facebook.

Lesson learned and I shan't be posting on any further topics on the forum as I am uncomfortable with it being shared openly on Facebook.

My request to remove my post on the forum here was with no intention other than to have the post removed from Facebook.
But I have been advised just to "ignore' the comments generated on Facebook.
Easier said than done.
But again lesson learned.

I will find an alternative breeders forum for advice in the future.
Thanks sent to all Champdogs members on this forum, I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

I agree that the op of a thread should be made aware that the opening post to a thread is going on fb(not all do)....it is one thing posting on here but another posting to a place where your not a member of.

Shame this has happened & you feel you have to leave.....I for one know how you feel re your puppy, as I made an earlier reply...hope you get a reasonable outcome to this sad situation

I do feel that in the age of privacy and consent and the never-ended "GDPR" emails about how our data may be used, that it isn't quite fair for admin to post threads started here on another forum somewhere else, without express permission from the poster concerned.... (I'm also not sure what the point is - it doesn't seem to encourage FB people here, nor encourage people here to FB....)

Must admit not good at trawling through small print, & had no idea that those topics with a red star were shared on Face ache.
I just though they were they were chosen topics of interest.
My heart goes out to Cotswold Caroli, first time posting on such a hideous situation & to get responses such as those posted from F.B.

I had the same conversation with CDs owner a good few years ago. I couldn't find anywhere that said my posts would be shared to fb - and I would never agree to that happening. On here there are very few people who know who I am in the big wide world but I could be easily identified on fb so I now rarely post on here due to that.

Not that I have anything to hide but I have answered posts in the past and shared some of my experiences which I am more than happy to do so on here but not on fb. Some of those posts could well have been seen by people for whom I have no wish to share with - and could even cause huge problems in my workplace. I thought the newly updated privacy laws would guarantee that we would be notified if our posts were shared elsewhere? I personally haven't received anything from CD with respect to the new change in regulations?