Hi all, we have a few dogs, and one is a beautiful 2.5year old Golden Retriever, another is a beautiful 1 year old light blue roan Cocker Spaniel (face looks like a Dalmation). Both are spayed. They both have loving natures, but the Cocker in Question, and her Brother, are so annoying to our Golden Retriever. From the time we brought them home, they are constantly in our Golden retriever's face. They don't nip her, but try to lick in her mouth. She has always growled at them and pulled her face away, but they follow it. We've tried so hard to stop them doing it, and are constantly calling or taking them away, but it is constant. A short while back when our blue roan (Gracie) was doing this, our Golden Retriever (Tanya) grabbed Gracie's face and shook her around like a toy, but in anger. It was frightening to see, and the result was a large gash, which was bleeding, on Gracie's nose. She was frightened of Tanya, for about half an hour, then was back at Tanya's face again. The same thing happened just now. This time a cut in Gracie's lip, which is bleeding (not pouring, and only surface). 5 minutes later, she's back at Tanya's face again. I think she may be lacking a bit :/ Anyway my question is, have any of you got any advice on how to stop this behaviour? We've tried treats when they've come away, and tried firm 'No!' and 'leave it!', and they'll stop for 5 minutes, then start again! It's obviously really annoying Tanya, for her to draw blood, and to be honest, I would get annoyed, but we're concerned that she will REALLY hurt them if they carry on. Gracie is far worse that her brother with this. Any advice greatly received, thank you x

So you have allowed this behaviour/situation to exist for 10 plus months assuming you acquired both Cockers at the same time ?

Puppies lick their mother's mouths in an attempt to get her to regurgitate food-it's an instinctive survival behaviour & quite normal when puppies are being weaned & just afterwards. However it is not acceptable for semi adult young dogs to continue to do this especially if the adult concerned is not their mother & uncomfortable with it(I've had dogs that have no problem with young puppies or slightly older pups doing this & some who make it clear from day one that they will never accept it(usually the males))

You really should have stopped this annoying behaviour before the younger dogs were 6 months old.

So you now gave an escalating situation in which your older dog has shown that she will not accept any longer & defended herself in the only way she can. Sadly she probably will end up really hurting the younger dog(s)

You really need someone to see exactly what is happening & give you the techniques to allow your older dog to no longer have to put up with the behaviour.

I suggest in the mean time using time outs & separation of these dogs & using guidelines on the Cockers so you can remove them from her vicinty if they start the behaviour.It will take a lot of patience & consistency & it goes without saying keeping them apart if you are not present

BTW your Golden bitch is NOT being aggressive she is defending herself & TBH I do not blame her at all

This face licking is most likely a throw-back to when they were young puppies, trying to encourage mum to regurgitate food for them - some will do this as part of 'weaning' and more so if the breeder hasn't begun weaning soon enough so this isn't necessary.   How old were these puppies when you got them?

Best I can offer, before you have increasing vet bills, or worse, is to correct these Cocker Sps. the moment this starts and when you are not there, separate them.    Adults know not to attack puppies but they have to see that their owner is correcting the puppy(ies) so there's no need for them to be doing that.   Small wonder your poor Golden is now attacking them!

Hopefully the youngsters will stop this, eventually.    But you've let this go on for THAT LONG (they are now 1 years???)

Add -   Sorry I didn't see that this regurgitating suggestion has already been made .... I was typing!

No I have not waited 10 plus months to try to correct this behaviour as we had these siblings from 6 months old, and have tried to stop it since!

And I already said I understand it's annoying and didn't blame her at all. Maybe the title wasn't the correct title to give, but short of writing an essay of the title, I thought that would be quicker! I thought the question beyond the title stated clearly enough that they were annoying her! I came on here for advice, not to be run down for trying to seek advice! We informed our vet when it first started happening, and he just said keep taking them away, which we doing and have followed other advice, but nothing is working! I therefore thought if it's not working after 4 months of doing exactly what we've been told to do, tbat it's not likely to work so was hoping there was some other advice that would work better! Clearly, it's just a place to slate someone for doing their best, following advice, and needing different advice in the hope something different would work! I also contacted a behaviourist, and they wanted £450 for just coming round fir a couple of hours to observe, but as seen as they don't do it when there's a stranger round, as they're too busy getting to know the stranger, there is no guarantee that they would observe what we're trying to correct. I haven't just sat on this doing nothing like you're implying, and it might help to find out more facts before you jump!

Perhaps if you had explained the story in correct detail from the beginning of you getting the Cockers to the current situation of your Golden having to take action to DEFEND herself(& not described it as aggression in the title because it isn't aggression)

Is your vet a qualified behaviourist? You contacted just 1 behaviourist? Why didn't you approach others ? Attend training  classes ?

You need professional help & I'm afraid that costs money. Vets are not the font of all knowledge especially in-depth canine behaviour. They have a few hours(if that)in their five year training to become a vet. Behaviorist training is in addition to this & few vets take it. Not all behaviourists charge huge amounts.

Just saying no & dragging the younger dogs away doesn't work as you have found. You use treats ? How ? Have you tried clicker training ? Have you used a houseline ? Have you trained the Cockers to focus on you ?  Could go on and on and on, but no doubt you will see asking questions as avoiding giving advice. Without actually seeing what happens & what you are doing to try to rectify the situation no one can really give advice.

The Cockers behaviour isn't just annoying to your Golden it is not distressing her & hence her actions which you describe incorrectly as aggression

Ok, so ignore the title. I know our Golden is not aggressive and I aid my original post that all those concerned are good natured. I got these cockers from a breeder who was intending on keeping both. However, the male had one undescended testicle so could not be bred from, and the breeder said the Mum, and the Gran, who he also had, kept attacking them. I didn't ask why. I saw they needed a home, and offered them one. We love ALL our dogs dearly, and it saddens us to see this happening. We KNOW our Golden is not aggressive. The aggression I related to in the title, was meant as 'a short burst of aggression' but I KNOW that it's not her fault and don't blame her in any way. The behaviour we're desperately trying to correct and have been trying for 4 months with the given advice we had recieved, and the only behaviour we need to correct is the spaniels! I'm not asking to correct the Golden, we know and understand full well why she's attacking, and I did state that I would feel the same if someone was annoying me. I just hoped there would be some varying advice from what we've already been given, because we we're told back then, like you say, that it takes time and patience, but after 4 months of doing what we've been told, they are STILL doing it, and obviously I don't want it to get to the stage where much more damage has been done. I don't see what I have done wrong here. I'm doing as I've been told to do. I have had time and patience and correct them EVERY time they do it, but I feel by 4 months, there should be a difference. There is very slight improvement, more so on the male, but not so much on the female. I AM DOING MY BEST :(

The important thing, regardless of anything else, is to keep all your dogs safe.  That means separating the cockers from the golden at all, times unless closely supervised, in house or garden (using baby gates, house-lines, whatever it takes, for several months to break the behaviour, and if when they are reintroduced together the cockers start pestering again, then separate them again for another period (could be weeks, could be months:  it takes as long as it takes).  Never leave them all together when you or a responsible adult (I don't know the makeup of your household) are not present.  Even when you are present, don't allow pestering:  as soon as it starts, if not as soon as they think about it (watch them and learn the signs), separate them.  Every time. Again and again and again. As has been said, your golden is not aggressive, just fed up with not getting any peace.

I'm assuming from what you've said that the Golden is currently top dog:  reinforce her position: feed her first, give her attention, treats, grooming, everything first, every time; and teach the cockers to wait their turn (it won't hurt them, and they have to learn their place).

Do you use crates?  If so, ensure that your dogs know that their crates are their safe spaces; the cockers can learn that when they are too full of themselves, being put their crates with something nice to chew is much better than pestering.  They are teenage hooligans at present, and need help to learn their boundaries and how to behave.

If you can't keep them separated, then you will have to consider rehoming one or both cockers (probably the female: female on female can be a very difficult situation).  Don't underestimate the seriousness of fights, do all you can to prevent them happening.

Please don't get upset with replies you receive, no-one on here knows anything except what you write; no-one can read your mind; and everyone cares passionately about dogs.

I forgot to mention that we had them from 6 months, and didn't know it was relevant, as I didn't expect to have such a blunt response when I was clearly concerned and looking for help. All our dogs attend Kennel Club Good Citizen obedience training classes. Tanya gas passed her Platinum, and Gracie is now in the Silver class. I'm not an irresponsible dog owner, I have had dogs for many years and never had this problem.

I can't change the title, I don't know how, and couldn't think how to word it, but as seen as I said in my post, that she was good natured, and didn't mention her being aggressive, in my post, that said it all. Instead I focused on the Cockers, mainly Grace being annoying! I'm not a fast typer. It takes me a while to type things out. I didn't think how long I'd had them was relevant, and I couldn't thinkhow to word the title. Like I said, I was wanted assistance or guidance, something different to what I'd been advised. I'm just not understanding why you're jumping on me. I've done NOTHING wrong.

I care passionately about my dogs too. I love them dearly, hence why Ilm asking for advice

It's cutting off most of my oosts too, and I don't know why

I don't use crates. We shut the cockers in the kitchen every time they start jumping at her face We'd carry on as we were but was worried. You say it can take months, and to have patience, but then I was slammed for leaving it so long, when I hadn't left it at all

I understand no-one xan read my mind, but equally I am unable to read anyone elses, therefore didn't know they needed to know how long we'd had the cockers, nor did I realise that it would be assumed that I had them as younger pups. Thank you for your advice

> We shut the cockers in the kitchen every time they start jumping at her face

How do they react when you do that? Do you shut them both away together, or in separate places?  How are the cockers together?  Do they focus on you/their other humans, or mostly on each other?  Do you walk/train/interact with them separately?  Is it possible that they are egging each other on to increased bad behaviour?  Have you worked on reducing their reliance on each other?  There's a thing called "littermate syndrome" where siblings focus on each other to the exclusion of anything else - you might consider looking in to that, if you haven't come across it already.

Without crates, my inclination would be either to shut one cocker in the kitchen, and the other in some other room apart from his/her sibling.  Alternatively, for each of the cockers to wear a houseline (short lead) and for a human to take hold of that and control each cocker separately (one cocker - one human).  Ignore the cockers until they are quiet and settled, but give attention to the golden. As soon as they are quiet, give them attention (not too much) but withdraw the attention as soon as they start being brats.

Do you use clicker training?  can you introduce it to train the behaviour you want?

Tommee Good lord, I think the only aggressive one in this forum is you! There are ways to say things, and clearly not everyone knows everything about everyone like you obviously do. Why don't you try finding out more details instead of wrongly assuming I know absolutely Nothing. Clearly you didn't read my post correctly as I said that my Golden was good natured and the Cockers were being annoying. I also stated that I understand this is annoying to her and didn't blame her for snapping! You wrongly assume I have no concern for my dogs, which couldn't be further from the truth, and you also wrongly assume that I haven't tried, but like I said I have followed advice that isn't working, so needed different advice. You also wrongly assume we haven't trained them. Gracie has gone from puppy to Silver in the short space of time we've had her, and Tanya has passed her Platinum, so we canlt be doing too bad with their training, and can't be quite as useless as you make me out to be! We've tried hard, and will continue to try hard, as we do not want worse to happen, which was why I turned to this site. Yes we've trained the pups to focus on us, that's part of the kennel club classes. The correct use of treats, taught at training school. It takes me a long time to type anything, so just kept it to what I thought was important. I've already said I realise the title was wrong, but couldn't change it, and the description counteracted that anyway. I guess you never make mistakes whilst typing

They get stressed. They do really love eachother, It's literally they're so annoying to her. I feel sorry for them. Sorry my last reoly wasn't aimed at youMerry paws

Merrypaws, yes they do tebd to stick together (the siblings) and are very protective of each other. ASorry will type in short bursts as I'm quite slow, sorry

Merrypaws, please forgive me. I'm trying to answer all your questions as best as I can. Please bear with me. Stupidly getting a bit teary as I want what's best for my dogs, as I lve them dearly and it's upsetting to be accused of not doing right by them. We'd never purposely do wrong by them. :(

We walk, train and interact individually, well we try to, but they always end up pkaying together. The walking and training is separate. We've been told they cry for eachother when out for their separate walks.

I hadn't come across littermate syndrome, no, so shall look into that thank you.

Thank you so much for that advice. We haven't used clicker training on them. The training school we're at said they thought voice commands were better, but would happily give it a try, if you think it may help. I'll try anything at this moment and time. I will also use the houseline route, and hope and pray that something will work, thank you so much for your advice.

I am not a behavourist but have had the same thing to manage . Fortunately in our case my gsd was tolerant of this behaviour from our flattie although I did redirect the behaviour as much as possible but  I dont think it was as much of a problem as yours  More tricky with two of course
Have u tried rewarding them if they dont  do this when in the presence of your golden ? Redirecting as well is often helpful.
Sorry i havnt read everything and you may be doing this anyway.  Ie catch them being  good ?
It will take a lot of time and effort as well as separating when you arnt able to supervise for  everyones peace and safety
I am hoping one of our behavourists will also be along to give advice from professional pov as well.just to add I am a fan of clicker training so would definitely look into it not just for this but any training.

CAN EVERYONE PLEASE IGNORE THE TITLE! I MADE A MISTAKE PUTTING AGGRESSIVE! SHE IS NOT AGGRESSIVE, I JUST MEANT THERE WERE A COUPLE OF AGGRESSIVE, OR BETTER WARD DEFENSIVE MOMENTS. I'M BY NO MEANS PERFECT AND MAKE MANY MISTAKES WHEN TYPING AND WORDING THINGS, SO PLEASE DON'T POUNCE ON ME FOR THIS. I ALSO ONLY TYPED WHAT I FELT TO BE RELEVANT TO THE ADVICE NEEDED, BECAUSE IT TAKES ME SO LONG TO TYPE. IF YOU'RE NOT SURE, PLEASE ASK, BUT PLEASE DON'T ASSUME WRONG OF ME. I AM DOING MY BEST, AND WILL CONTINUE TO USE ANY ADVICE ANYONE FEELS WOULD BE HELPFUL. I LOVE MORE DOGS SO MUCH, AND IT'S ALREADY AN EMOTIONAL TIME SEEING THIS HAPPEN WHEN YOU'VE TRIED SO HARD TO STOP IT, FOLLOWING GUIDELINES GIVEN, PLEASE DO NOT ASSUME I DON'T CARE OR HAVEN'T TRIED HARD ENOUGH BECAUSE IT'S REALLY UPSETTING. I AM HAPPY TO FOLLOW ANY ADVICE I AM GIVEN. I DON'T WANT TO LOSE EITHER DOG THROUGH REHOMING, OR WORSE STILL THROUGH A FIGHT. I DO WANT TO SOLVE THIS WITH A MY HEART SO PLEASE, DON'T GET ANNOYED BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW AS MUCH AS YOU. IF WE ALL KNEW EVERYTHING, THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR ADVICE :(

Hi Furriefriends. Yes, when we tell them to stop, and call them over, directly they do that, we treat. We've also tried keeping them calm for a while then treated and praised. Yes I will certainly try clicker training, I'm up for anything new, as this clearly isn't working. Thank you

Calm down Sadie. Using block capitals isn't helping.
You have given your first posting but guidelines say give as much info as possible in the first post then those whom wish to try to help/give advice can do so with the info they are given.
Please take this post as a positive not getting at you as it isn't.
There are knowledgeable people here who try to help where they can. This forum is known for those whom are direct 'speakers' given sound advice with no frills

I only initially started typing in capitals because I wanted people to notice as I want them to ignore the title. I wish I hadn't put that title, but couldn't think how to word it, and I don't know how to change it :(

> The training school we're at said they thought voice commands were better, but would happily give it a try, if you think it may help.

The advantage with clicker training is that you can "mark" the behaviour you want more quickly than with words.  If you haven't used clicker training with them before, read up about it first so you can "load" the clicker (that is, teach them that "required behaviour=click=reward", because they won't know it to start with). 

Other things you can do include making them work for everything: get them to "sit", or "down", or "stand" for their meals or treats, or going in or out of doors, and gradually increase the level of obedience you demand, so that they will, for example, sit and remain sitting for a minute, two minutes, whatever, before they get the reward.  Get them to sit-stay or sit-wait, give them combined "tasks", call one to you while the other remains sitting.  The main thing is, don't let them get away with getting sloppy, or edging forward (for example) when they're supposed to be sitting. Harden your heart (not easy when four spaniel eyes are trying to melt you: be a glacier, it's for their own good).  And make sure your golden girl gets her share of the fun, you'll be appearing to give the uppity cockers extra attention, so don't let her feel left out.

It's clear you love your dogs, and want to do your best for them.  It is hard work, and you have to persist, and everyone (humans) in the house has to do the same. 

You can do it, and will succeed if you are persistent and consistent.  Good luck.

I'm sorry for the way I responded, but am already really upset that we're getting nowhere, and the response I got made it out that I wasn't even trying :(

I'm sorry :( and thank you for all your advice xx

Contact admin as they should be able to change the post title if you feel that will help :)
it  an be demoralising when we feel we are doing everything as well as we can  and it's still not helping but hopefully some new idea's will be  included in  reply for you .

Yes, thank you. I also tried deleting my stroppy replies, but couldn't. I'm useless at technology. Thank you x

You will think I'm really stupid now, but can't find even where to contact Admin. I just want to remove my stroppy replies, and change the title, and add that I've only had the pups (teenagers) for 4 months. I regret ever posting that title. I know she's not aggressive and I didn't mean it as it sounded :( I have honestly taken everyone's advice on board, and will get a clicker tomorrow and shall be reading up on this tonight. I shall also use the short lead too. Thank you ALL so much. Sorry Tommee :(

Ok, so have now managed to figure out how to contact admin, and have asked for the title to be changed, and my stroppy replies removed. I really do apologise for getting het up, and I really do appreciate all your advice. Thank you all again xx

I do not "know it all" I do have a lifetime of working with & training dogs & what that entails. Over the years I have learnt & changed my ways towards training dogs & why dogs do what they do.

However no one can give completely correct advice without the full situation being observed, only suggestions which may or may not help. There is a common assumption that vets(because they go to university for 5 years)are the font of all knowledge about animals. They sadly are not, but still give out incorrect advice especially regarding behaviour based on their personal experience rather than professional knowledge

However having been thoroughly put in my place I'll remove myself from this thread & put you on ignore so that I will not be tempted to upset you further

> If you can't keep them separated, then you will have to consider rehoming one or both cockers (probably the female: female on female can be a very difficult situation).  Don't underestimate the seriousness of fights, do all you can to prevent them happening.<br />

This is sensible advice.   Once bitches fight, so often there is no way back, unfortunately.

No tommee please don’t be upset. I was wrong to have responded like I did and I’m am truly sorry. Please please do accept my apology. I didn’t mean to upset you, I am upset myself and responded in a manner I shouldn’t have and unfortunately was unable to delete it. I do appreciate your advice and everyone else’s. I am really sorry :( x

You need a behaviourist in. Look up ones on the apbc.
I would for the time being keep the cockers away from the golden at all times.
The cockers need to be walked apart from each time, have time out from each other be trained apart. Litter mate syndrome is clearly a factor here too.
They arent listening to you because they have each other.

Hi there,

Sounds like you are having a difficult time and getting very frustrated as a consequence...which in addition to everything else will not help you much.

It sounds like there may be a compulsive aspect to this behaviour and figuring out correctly what is driving it is going to be key to trying to find a solution, I note that you say the youngsters were being attacked by mother and grandmother in the breeder's home before you took them and it may be useful to find out more about that.

I would strongly advise you to see a veterinary behaviourist. Go onto the Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors website and start there. Depending on where you live you can also attend behaviour clinics, at Lincoln University or RVC in Hertfordshire.

If you are insured check your plan as it may cover behaviour work. Yes, it may seem expensive but then think how much grief, time and energy might be saved long run. I say see a vet behaviourist because if it is a compulsive behaviour rather than a learned habit your little dog may require specialist help. With the greatest of respect to all on here, this does sound potentially more complex than can be 'solved' on the forum. You really need proper assessment. A vet behaviourist is just that, a fully qualified vet and then often a masters or PHd in animal behaviour on top.

Good luck!

> Not all behaviourists charge huge amounts.

This.  I charge very little, in part because I'm in a poor area and people simply aren't willing or able to pay a typical behavioural fee, but also because I find I have more success charging less and having more visits.  It's worth shopping around.

APBC is a great place to start, I would also look at IMDT.  They have a strict policy of thorough assessments and positive methods for their members.  But also bear in mind that some of us aren't members of any organisations but are still good behaviourists - look at websites, talk to people.  Avoid anyone talking about using rank reduction, pack leadership or dominance involving you as this is not helpful and potentially damaging.

For what it's worth, I thought Tommee was unnecessarily blunt too. It's good that you apologised for getting upset, and her advice is good advice, but even if you had got these puppies at 12 weeks and had spent 8 months trying to correct the behaviour instead of having them at 6 months and spending 4 months trying to correct the behaviour, I thought you were answered quite harshly. You made it clear in your first post that you did try to stop them doing it! Anyway, hopefully the clicker training and so on will help. Just wanted to say try not to panic too much, it's hard to get everything right and get the perfect title and perfect wording to make your problem clear, and most people do try to understand and give the benefit of the doubt.

> we had these siblings from 6 months old

By the time you got them they should long have long grown out of this behaviour.

What sort of environment had they been in to have continued it?

I start to wean my pups by three weeks of age so have never had pups need to resort to this behaviour, and never had bitches regurgitate for their pups, as being a primitive Spitz breed I was warned to start pups on solids before they needed to do this.

This makes me wonder if the pups were not provided with food early enough, or were left with Mum unable to get away from them, or both.

Were they well nourished when you got them?

How do you feed the dogs at present?  Do they do this most after mealtimes?

Is there any other trigger for them to do this and do they do it to each other?

>> The training school we're at said they thought voice commands were better,

I'd imagine that this would be correct for a group/class situation, as lots of people all clicking at their dogs could be distracting and confusing.

Clicker training is very good in a one to one training situation breaking behaviours down bit by bit.

Off topic

I'd imagine that this would be correct for a group/class situation, as lots of people all clicking at their dogs could be distracting and confusing

Clicker training in class is quite possible & doesn't(or shouldn't)consist of everyone using a clicker in close proximity all the time. The trainer demonstrates how to mark the behaviour & reward the dog with the clicker & individual handler & dog given the the opportunity to try the exercise. It usually takes a couple of minutes(sometimes as fast as seconds) for the pair to grasp the idea(the dog usually being quicker than the handler

Thank you all so much for your advice. I have ordered a clicker, and am just going to look at the behaviourist place you have mentioned. To answer your questions, the pups were in a top floor flat, which was relatively small. I think they were mainly kept in the kitchen. They had a few issues, especially Gracie. She was frightened of the dark, and of rain, so toileting was a nightmare, but we got there in the end. They're both a bit nervy of strangers, although Gracie is improving a lot with this. They can be snappy around strange dogs, but again Gracie is improving. When we first got them and took them for walks they would just freeze then bark, every time a person approached in the distance. This has improved greatly, although Gracie's brother still barks if he is approached. The breeder after we git the pup's swiftly disappeared, so can't even contact him. The pups seemed very well nourished and their coats were good x

Sorry, forgot to answer one of your questions. It can be at any time that they, particularly Gracie does this, but certainly can be worse after they've had their food. Also another time that it's worse is when Tanya has a toys, or bone. They have lots of bones, so plenty for all, but they seem to want Tanya's one, and if Gracie has a toy, she will walk up and down in front of Tanya, as she wants Tanya to try to take it, so she can wrestle with her, which they do when they play. However it can be the other way round, with Tanya taking their bones and toys, and she also parades it in front of Gracie. It's like they're teasing each other x

It sounds like a combination of attention seeking and appeasement behaviour. 

It does sound like they had a very poor start, and you have come quite a way with their issues in a relatively short time.

Does sound like a referral to reputable behaviourist to design a program for them, to overcome this particular issue so that all three can live peaceably together.

Yes we wondered if it was attention seeking. Have emailed some other behaviourists now, who are a bit further away to see if they could help. I think obedience classes have helped Gracie a lot, as she didn't pay attention at all before that, but her brother hasn't been to training school properly yet (only for socialising). We have another unrelated older cocker who also goes to training so it's impossible to take them all, so do most of his training at home, or in walks. Once they move up classes, we'll be able to take him too. Unfortunately, that makes no difference to the mouth licking, so realise I need separate help for that :( xx

> We have another unrelated older cocker

Do they do the licking to the other cocker?

No, but we wondered if they associated our Golden with their mother, or grandmother because they were both a cream colour, as is our Golden. It may well be nothing to do with that, but just wondered. Our other cocker is black and tan, and looks nothing like their mother or grandmother. Also they are more wary of our other cocker as really does put them in their place, yet oddly enough doesn't draw blood, but the Golden does, and they don't stay wary of our Golden. Our other cocker will put them in their places immediately though, where-as, we've had to intervene every time, for a long while before our Golden snaps :(