I touched on this briefly in one of my other posts, which at that stage i wasn't sure if it was rough play or aggression...

Well i am now positive Nugget's behaviour toward other puppies is aggression. He will go up and sniff briefly and then growl and lunge going in for an attack! This happens nearly every time we come across a puppy, so i now leash him when i spot another pup coming in our direction. He is absolutely fine,polite and plays well with adult dogs, but puppies are an absolute no go.

He is 6mths old on the 12th of May, not yet neutered and we  have just started attending obedience training. I mentioned this issue to the trainer, and she said it's a mix of testosterone and prey drive... Hmmmmmm.

She saw him in action when the pups had an off lead play session, he had a go at a little poodle pup. He had a time out and we had to watch from the other side of the fence for a few minutes, after which we were allowed back in, this time there was no aggression, but he went for the biggest dog in the group (8mth old German shorthaired pointer) and grabbed hold of his back leg and started furiously humping!!

I am at a loss. I have never had behavioural problems with any of my past dogs, and i have only ever owned females.

Your trainer thinks humping is testosterone & prey drive ????

I had a bitch who humped small dogs when a friend's small dogs came to visit. She was neutered(post pubescently)so not testosterone driven & as for prey drive definitely not because her prey driven was directed to working stock & she never "sheeped" anything else.

Humping is not always hormone driven, it can simply be enjoyable for the humper. Many dogs will go into a sort of blissful state if you rub their chest between their front legs, it is this that humping also induces.

Sounds very much to me like the object of your puppy's focus is younger dogs who have not yet developed their canine body language, which is why he is fine with more mature dogs.

Rather than punish him by leashing him & making him observe the others"playing" I would do some focus work with him. For example teaching him to give you his undivided attention by giving you full eye contact, marking the contact with a cluck & very high value food reward. This can be then used to distract him from the other dogs.

You can also use this to get him to break eye contact with other dogs & pre-empt any incorrect behaviour from him Have a look
here for a way to teach this

A truly aggressive dog will not warn by growling first they simply attack, which is why they are quite had to deal with.

You can also divert his attention using an interactive toy like a tuggy to get his focus back on to you.

A trainer who sees his behaviour as prey drive might need to rethink their behaviour knowledge. I wonder if your trainer is one who promotes prepubescent castration to shape male behaviour(which it rarely does) ?

My male dogs are never very good with young puppies they try to avoid them at all costs usually

The trainer said the aggression could be due to testosterone/prey drive, which didnt make sense to me either. The humping was just him being over excited.

There's a couple of of people who pick their pups up when they see us coming now, which i feel horrible about!

My first thought was, that he knows he can get it over on pups and they will submit to him, which they always do. He knows better to try this behaviour with adult dogs. I'm just at a loss on why he does this, he's a puppy, he should want to play with other puppies not attack them, or so i thought.

Although he's a puppy to we humans, in canine behaviour he's an immature adult & therefore is simply behaving like one. Especially if he is going through early puberty, which is normal for smaller dogs.

I personally would work distracting him & getting his focus on you when there is a puppy approaching you.

I have friends with giant breed flock guards & their young dogs are very playful well into their teenage months much more so than my sheepdogs even their males.

Try not to dwell on what others perceive an aggression, it really isn't. My males are quite grumpy around puppies they don't have the maternal instincts that bitches due & have different puberty periods, most bitches have just one period whilst dogs undergo two, one between 6 & 12 months & another after twelve months when their growth plates are triggered to start closing. Mentally he could be quite confused by his hormone levels & may be more settled when they have dropped.

I'm very surprised your trainer wasn't aware of this & advise you to work on distraction & focus & offer to help you overcome the problem

Thank you Tommee. I wish my trainer was as experienced and level headed as you

I'll start working extra hard with the little blighter.

> There's a couple of of people who pick their pups up when they see us coming now, which i feel horrible about!

I hope you do understand that you shouldn't let your puppy off the lead now, at all, not until he is 100% under your control. Leashing him when you see another puppy coming is not good enough, as there will always be the risk of you not "seeing" in time or him not responding to you.

There is absolutely no excuse to take that risk, especially given that your puppy is attacking other puppies - who are in the process of learning, discovering their environment, who can be sensitive, and to whom even one such attack could cause serious damage affecting their temperament and their relationship with dogs.

They aren't known as Terrorists for nothing lol

>They aren't known as Terrorists for nothing lol

Yes indeedy, he's quite the handful

My terriorist was the same, but thankfully my trainers are very level headed and just "now don't be so silly" when he has a mad rage at another pup or dog.  He's 14 months old and he still likes to have a grumble but it seems more like a sensible grumble as in, he wouldn't run after another dog to grumble but will grumble if they run over to him. He doesn't like dogs running to him, and puppies even less!

We are looking for advice regarding our pups they are 3 weeks apart in age  one lab and a westie the lab came first by two weeks. How can we calm down really aggressive play, fighting and mouthing as we don't want any injuries we had our last 2 pups 13 years ago and both passed away with old age so and tips or advice much appreciated.

Axel you  would be best to start a new thread so your question doesn't get lost and people can answer to your situation

Thanks I, ll try that. We are new to champdogs

No worries I am sure u will soon get the hang of it

It's happening with every single puppy we see now. There was a gorgeous 16 week Bernese mountain dog at the park last night. Nugget had a quick sniff and went in for the attack, lots of growling, paws on her back, just incredibly anti social behaviour. There are some dogs where it's hard to tell if they are pups, as they're bigger and in the 10ish month age, but i can tell straight away by how he reacts.
I grab him off of the dog and give him a stern uh huh! Put his leash on and leave, i have no idea how else to handle this. He also has started humping other dogs, male/female/intact /spayed/neutered, he is not picky! Also, he has cocked his leg and peed up a few peoples legs if i am standing chatting with them. Neutering him now instead of later is started to enter into my mind

It seems his drive is stronger than the telling off and removing him from the situation that he gets from me..

I should also add that he encountered a 7 year old male intact pit bull the other day. Nugget approached gently and did the usual sniffing and then quick as lighting tried to hump him! Luckily i was right there to pull him off the dog.

I have never, ever in my life had a dog behave in this way. Let a lone a 7mth old puppy.

Pre pubescent castration will not "cure" this problem. At 7 months he will be in his first hormonal surge if you castrate now you will remove the testosterone source he will need later in life to trigger the timeous closure of his growth plates. This means his "long bones"will go on increasing longer than if he was entire & all the problems that entails plus you risk him being an eternal puppy with puppy behaviours.


This is an interesting article

Thank you Tommee.

I had planned to get him neutered some time after he turned 1 year old.

I have 2 trains of thought..

- Get him done now as the more and longer he practices these behaviours, the more learned and ingrained they will become and i will find it impossible to break the habits.

- Let him fully mature, and "hopefully" he will grow out of it.

I guess my biggest issue is his intolerance of other puppies (the humping and peeing up peoples legs i can handle). I thought pups love to play with each other.. Nugget just want to dominate them as he knows he can get away with it with them, and not adults?? People are starting to pick up their puppies when they see us coming, which absolutely shatters me. I don't want to be the owner of a bully dog!!

I honestly cant stand the thought of neutering him so early, he is still a baby. Having said that though, he is the one and only pup at obedience that is still entire, and the only one with this aggression issue.

This isn't dominance a truly dominant dog does not behave in this way believe me. All the "dominant"behaviours that the likes of Caesar Millan believe in are based on proven false studies into captive artificial wolf packs.

Hang in there with him, keep him on a long line when other dogs are around & train train train & reward massively the behaviours you want. He will come right with a little time & effort from you both

BTW most males are not fully mature until nearer 18 months  than 12 months please don't dive in with castration too early

I would get a 121 trainer in and work with them in dog parks. What he is doing could do untold damage mentally to the other dogs and don't let him offlead until this is sorted as the more he practices this behaviour the harder it will be to break.

It's possible that your boy is the one who is worried but other pups for whatever reason. The last thing you need is for him to injure another dog and the more he practices the behaviour the more habitual it will become so for now keep him on a lead, long line if you prefer but when greeting another dog allow 3 seconds and then move him on, maybe just adults now and avoid the puppies until you have sought a trainer

> BTW most males are not fully mature until nearer 18 months  than 12 months please don't dive in with castration too early

Totally agree.

Totally agree with suejaw in what she says and I would also suggest a good reward based trainer too . It's possible he is actually nervous of other dogs and it's showing in this way .sometimes hard to work out as I found

If he can cope with the 3 seconds great if not work at his comfortable distance even if it means u need to be the other side of the park .watch his body language as well and as suejaw says a long line all the time
.
also practice him focusing on you and ignoring other things.
He doesn't have to play with other dogs especially if he is uncomfortable .

You don't need to tell him off just prevent the behaviour and lots of treats to keep his attention on you and reward when he sees another dog and doesn't react  Not all dogs actually enjoy dog interaction. I have one that doesn't apart from a known few and after taking professional.advise we  have a way of keeping everyone safe and happy

I absolutely agree that your puppy never goes off lead with any other dog until he is fully trained, I do realise that this is incredibly hard for you but it's just not fair to put someone else's puppy in the situation of being harrassed/humped or attacked thereby potentially causing them problems with their socialisation.  See if your pup can be trained to keep his attention on you regardless of dogs or people around him, we use the "watch" command reinforced with tiny food titbits or a toy if pup is not food motivated. Teach it at home and then move onto outside situations, find a couple of people with trained friendly adult dogs and practice with them, never walk with another dog who is badly behaved as imo dogs learn from each other in social interactions. Tedious though it is you must keep your focus on him and his on you so he has no chance to misbehave and you can just keep rewarding for good behaviour, you will get there in the end.

> People are starting to pick up their puppies when they see us coming, which absolutely shatters me. I don't want to be the owner of a bully dog!!

It was a month ago that people had started picking their puppies up, that's why I don't think it shatters you in any way else you would not have continued letting your dog off the lead...

I think you are correct, the more he practices this behaviour, the more it will become ingrained. It is possible that it has already become ingrained, given that he already deteriorated from selectively attacking puppies to now attacking them all. And yet you still provide him with opportunities to practice this behaviour?..

People can only advise as at the end of the day it is your dog to decide what to do... I just think there would be very few options if you continue on your present course; either you'll end up with a squabbly dog who goes into hysterics whenever he sees another dog and you'll never be able to let him off the lead, or he'll get seriously hurt when he eventually encounters a stronger dog (which the incident with a pitbull already demonstrated) or a less sympathetic owner who instead of picking their puppy up will kick your dog flying.

Ok so neutering him will not help his issues with other puppies or the humping, so that's off the table. He's with dozens of pups every Sunday at obedience, so i think being there is our best bet at helping this. I will keep him on lead around other puppies whilst out on walks and will not give him an opportunity to have a go, we see puppies maybe once or twice a week out on walks if that, so putting him on lead in these situations is not a big deal.

Ironically, a dog tried humping him at the beach today, and he flipped over on his back and submitted and then ran and hid behind my legs. A "dominant" dog would not have done that, correct? It's the first time I've ever seen him roll on his back.

Unfortunately one on one training is not possible, it is ridiculously expensive here and something i just cant afford.

It seems my only options are, reward good behaviour, and don't give him a chance to practice bad behaviour.

I thought neutering him 'may' have reduced his testosterone levels, making him not interested in humping or getting one over on other puppies. But this seems to not be the case after reading the replies here.

I would keep him on lead(or long line)at the moment so you have total control of him. No off lead unless in a safe dog free area.

He"s basically being a brat in human terms & you really need to work on keeping his focus on you. You need to watch for other dogs & by being at his safe distance from other dogs, i.e. where he isn't reacting to other dogs & not showing any signs of even being interested in other dogs, work on him focusing intensively on you for very high value rewards. I would also work on his focus at home away from other distractions.

Once he has a solid focus command( I use the "watch me") you can start desensitifying him to other dogs by reducing the distance between & other dogs & using the focus command rewarding him again with high value treats) if at any time he regressed increase the distance

Neutering removes vital hormones that are a confidence booster and serotonin up-lifters which are related to the feel-good factor.

Thanks again for all of your helpful advice. I will definitively putting into practice.

Is your dog insured? Many insurance policies cover referral to a behaviourist although your premiums would likely go up in future as you would have to declare it.  Not all behaviourists are ridiculously expensive and in your case it would be a worthwhile investment.  What area do you live in? Someone on here may be able to recommend someone or the person who runs your dog training might know someone.  I would stay away from the franchises though and make sure the person is what they say they are.

Personally, I would make sacrifices to pay for a behaviourist before you lose the joy of owning your boy and he becomes a chore or something to manage.  Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

The poster lives in Australia

> when greeting another dog allow 3 seconds and then move him on

I advise this to all my male pup owners, as much for their dogs safety as often young male dogs with their testosterone surging will receive negative reactions from other male dogs, with adults feeling the young up and coming male needs putting in it's place..

Aaah Tommie, that will teach me to look properly at posts!

> He's with dozens of pups every Sunday at obedience, so i think being there is our best bet at helping this. I will keep him on lead around other puppies whilst out on walks and will not give him an opportunity to have a go, we see puppies maybe once or twice a week out on walks if that, so putting him on lead in these situations is not a big deal.

I would actually try not going for a couple of weeks and see if it has any impact on his behaviour.  At obedience he may be overwhelmed, so shutting down and not showing the aggression but only because there are too many triggers to deal with, or frustrated that he can't get to them so when he can, it's considerably worse as all that frustration is focused on one.  Or, as you say, it is helping him - every dog is different.  So I'd have a couple of weeks off and see how you go.

> Ironically, a dog tried humping him at the beach today, and he flipped over on his back and submitted and then ran and hid behind my legs. A "dominant" dog would not have done that, correct? It's the first time I've ever seen him roll on his back.

Correct, and it confirms what others have said that he is most likely nervous.  What you describe with others sounds like OTT bullying behaviour to me, which is borne of anxiety so his reaction does not surprise me.  It also confirms that neutering will NOT help him and could make him worse.

That goes for telling off, too - I can tell you from extensive experience that telling a bully (or otherwise aggressive or reactive) dog off absolutely does not help.  The only time it ever has is with a dog that is bullying out of sheer fun, and I've only known a couple of those - yours doesn't sound like one.  And it didn't help that much then, because they didn't care!  Telling off adds stress to an already stressful situation, and stress is the driving force behind his behaviour.  So, more stress, more aggression.  Lead by example - be calm to help you train a calm dog.

> That goes for telling off, too - I can tell you from extensive experience that telling a bully (or otherwise aggressive or reactive) dog off absolutely does not help.  The only time it ever has is with a dog that is bullying out of sheer fun, and I've only known a couple of those - yours doesn't sound like one.  And it didn't help that much then, because they didn't care!  Telling off adds stress to an already stressful situation, and stress is the driving force behind his behaviour.  So, more stress, more aggression.  Lead by example - be calm to help you train a calm dog.

So very much agree here, I would also add that telling off in stressful situations (for example dogs are fighting, or dog barking at a stranger) can also quickly lead to fear aggression. The best thing is to distract attention straight away, as if the incident has never happened, and then work on calming and teaching the dog.

Thank you so much for the amazing incite girls.  You have helped us more than you know.

Thank you all for taking the the time to help and give such detailed replies, it is very much appreciated. I have read over this thread many times, and have taken in everything you all have said.

I will be sure to update our progress on this thread.

Thanks again for giving me “homework” and some hope thatwe can get over this hurdle.