People on this forum are criticised for breeding from bitches that have not been successfully shown.However what about breeders often from famous kennels who allow their champion stud dogs to mate bitches of questionable quality.There are countless examples of this on this very site.

They are just as wrong as the bitch owners. They do not post on this forum however asking about using their dogs on untested unknown/worked bitches as the owners of bitches do when ask8by for stud dogs etc. If they did the same as the bitch owners they too would be criticised about not ensuring both dog & bitch are fully health tested & typical of a good quality example of the breed

Those people are just as bad, in my opinion.   The owner of a stud dog is 50% responsible for what he produces.   And I'd suggest btw, that people with good stud dogs tend not to let them be used on sub-standard bitches simply because people tend to blame the stud dog if the puppies aren't up to much!!   I turned away more enquiries to use my stud dogs, than I accepted.

This is all to so with money , and greed for it. Let's face the fact that most of these 'top breeders' charge the full stud fee, upfront and usually in cash. And we are talking about some hundreds of pounds, Not a bad earner for a couple of bonks ,which I assume the stud dog will enjoy. For sure, they will argue that upkeep of the stud dog , health testing etc etc costs them as much , but of course it doesn't, especially when said dog is used frequently. Far worse in my opinion is the use of popular studs without consideration of the need for diversity in the gene pool. Pups sired by 'Champions'  command a high price. What's to stop your average bitch owners returning again and again ?

I agree, in part.  It wasn't all about money with me and yes, I'd always expect to take/pay a stud fee up front UNLESS the dog concerned dog wasn't proven in which case it would be once the litter was on the ground.  Afterr all the owner of the stud dog has put a lot into having a dog worthy of being a stud dog!

> Far worse in my opinion is the use of popular studs without consideration of the need for diversity in the gene pool.

This I do agree with - we had a top winning dog in my main breed some years ago now, and people flocked to use him with the result that at the time, the gene pool was affected, to say nothing of the fact the dog was being campaigned to the point that so many excellent males in the ring at the time, never made their titles!   But again, the use of this dog should in my opinion, have been restricted.   But money does matter!!

I thought I had found a wonderful stud dog, related to nikonis Colin, but my girl wasn't having any of it and we decided to miss that season and try again next time. He was relatively new but by 6 months later I had realised that the owner was putting him to anything with the money.

I was so glad that we didn't get a litter from him. It's such a shame as he's a lovely long coat and clear on everything. A beautiful example and a real head turner but I refuse to have a name on my pedigree, linked to my lines where the stud has sired questionable progeny.

Needless to say, we went elsewhere and were very happy with the result.

As a stud owner, my boy was only used 4 times and I turned away far more than I can remember. Some people have no idea what they are doing. There was a lady so desperate to put my 40kg boy to her show Cocker bitch that she was offering to pay whatever. Could you imagine the damage that could have occurred during such a mating? Or the over sized pup during whelping?

... It wasn't going to happen but it took her a good two weeks to get the message!

The stud we are going to use next year (on my girl that has had one litter already) has never been used.  The stud owner has turned away many enquiries, because either the dog was un-health-tested or she didn't believe the owners would raise the puppies well and place them in good homes.

I do kind of wish she had agreed to one of these previous requests so my girl wasn't going to be his first experience(!!)...!  The COI will be just 4.3%.

Perhaps he'll get a mating under his belt between now and then?

An opportunity may arise for the owner that's too good to miss.... There's always hope!

Good luck with your breeding. I hope it all goes well. My chosen stud and stand by stud have been waiting for the last two months but my girl has decided she's taking her time to come in this time. Apparently, I'm not the only one, there are a number of bitch owners where seasons are late. Must be the weather!

Shocked some years back to find on a dubious site, a breeder previously listed here offering for a certain sum a few of her males for stud, & the best part was cross breeds considered!