Hi all, dog is a 2.5 year old GSD bitch. Was due in season the end of June last year, started for about a week, stopped completely and then came back into season properly around 2 weeks later. Was due again in December, started about 3-4 weeks later in January, again had a ‘split’ season where she bled for about a week or two, stopped, then started 5-6 weeks later where she is (as of now) having a ‘normal’ season. Assuming she was having her season in January, I of course booked her on to be spayed at the end of April. But as she’s now having what appears to be a normal season I don’t know what to do. Should I delay it by three months again? Or meet in the middle and do it in 8 weeks? I’m struggling to think of what to do for the best.

When I asked the vet they did not know what a split season was and gave the standard 3 months after the season finished answer.  Prior to this season and the last season her other seasons were like clockwork every 6 months.  I of course just want to get the spay over with now, so any advice given the present irregularities would be appreciated....

> When I asked the vet they did not know what a split season

Very poor for them to not know about this I have to say...

As it seems to be so irregular it is hard what to do for the best of your bitch... I think it would be wise to wait to see what happens in the next week or so & maybe bring it forward than what is normally suggested(3 months from start of season)

Hi thanks, she's still booked in at the end of this month but obviously I need to make a decision one way or the other. asap  I have booked a couple of weeks of work to keep an eye on her which I'll have to try and move too.  It's a pain but obviously I want to do whats best for her and I have been told different things by various people.....

My bitch had almost no seasons in her 5 years so we hadntt really got a clue when to spay her . Could u have a second opinion to reassure u from a vet who does know about split seasons as they should. It is possible to spay at any time but more complicated .otherwise I wonder if a chat with a repro vet would be useful
Do u have to spay her ? Maybe leaving a while and things may settle down to be more normal

> When I asked the vet they did not know what a split season was

Find another vet!!   I'd not trust a vet who didn't know what this is, to operate on any dog of mine.    I would normally have said go by the advice of the operating vet because if this is done anywhere near a season, it has a greater risk.   If this is going on, perhaps a course of hormone treatment might regularise what's going on (I'm NOT a vet so am only suggesting what might be a good idea?) so you can get her spayed without fear of her condition being a problem?

Some GSD lines are prone to irregular & split seasons.

I took on a Border Collie bitch who hadn't had a season aged 15 months. She didn't have a season in the next 17 months & when she did come into season it was just the middle week when she was receptive to males. Luckily for me she was a close coated type(smooth coated)so seasons were obvious. My vet did several hormone level tests & her oestrogen & tostesterone levels were completely out of the normal(yes both are present in all mammals) his plan of action was to wait for the next season & then spay 3 months later. However the next season was 8 months later so he spayed are 4 months from the start of it & she had no more problems. She had what is called Hyperandrogenism, he did monitor her hormone levels throughout this time & liased with a professor of reproduction from his Veterinary teaching Vet School as the condition was & still is very rare. She lived a normal life afterwards

I think the bigger question is why you want to spay a bitch at just 2.5yo, when spaying increases the likelihood of many cancers, joint disease, immune-related disorders and even aggression.... ?

I would suggest that maybe you call up a repro vet for advice. Whether I'd want to use a vet who has no idea on split seasons is your decision but I wouldn't be happy. The best bet is to speak to a repro vet and there are a few in the UK for their advice and go from there. They may well suggest going to a different practice too for the surgery.

Having owned bitches with split seasons I would suggest that you stop worrying and go ahead with a spay at the end of this month.  As long as the vet isn't newly qualified he will have spayed plenty of bitches at the "wrong" time.  The operation may involve slightly more work for him, but many vets wouldn't be worried about the operation.

I see that you have been advised that your girl would be more prone to cancer - and I believe that is true for males, not bitches, please make up your own mind by googling

Long-Term Health Risks and Benefits Associated with Spay / Neuter in Dogs
written by Laura J. Sanborn, M.S.

I always tell people to read her informed article, and then make up their own mind.

> I think the bigger question is why you want to spay a bitch at just 2.5yo, when spaying increases the likelihood of many cancers, joint disease, immune-related disorders and even aggression.... ?

This isn't what I understand about spaying and bitches!!  I'd suggest quite the opposite with many of the female-related cancers.    If a bitch is spayed before the growth plates have closed, then there can be problems - supported by my then vet who didn't want to spay my Whippet when I asked him to go ahead when she was just over 6 months.   He advised I let her have one season.   I wanted until she was 11 months with no sign of a season, so asked him to go ahead.   She's fine.   And he also cited the risk of spay incontinence if done early.   The only one I had to support 'more aggression' was a singleton bitch I had spayed before she was a year (after deciding she wasn't up to show/breeding quality although we kept her).  Whether I'd spoilt her rotten as a puppy, being a singleton bitch, I can't be sure, but she was inclined to be more sharp (with the others, not me) than most of our bitches.

I'd not say 2.5 years is in any way abnormal.   In fact I hold fast to the suggestion that the more seasons a bitch is allowed to have, the GREATER the risk of developing a female-related cancer later on.

But it's your decision.

Agree with you mamabas. I've always understood that it's best to spay bitches when fully grown in order to prevent cancers not to mention pyometra

Research doesn't support you though MamaBas, there is an overwhelming evidence to the contrary now...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29067194/

https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2014/06/13/neutering-spaying-cancer-risk.aspx

https://www.parsemus.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Zwida-and-Kutzler-2016.pdf

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0102241

https://www.avma.org/News/Journals/Collections/Documents/javma_219_1_51.pdf

http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/11/11/1434.full

http://www.naiaonline.org/uploads/WhitePapers/EarlySNAndBehaviorDuffySerpell.pdf

And so on - this is just a small amount of the research available.

It's great that you have had individual dogs which you can offer as evidence against this, but I had an uncle who lived to be 95 whilst smoking a pack a day - that doesn't prove that cigarettes don't cause cancer... Individual experience can only ever be anecdotal, which is why we rely on research to show us the way.  And when there is research conclusively pointing in one direction, we don't need to get all emotional and have impassioned debates about it - there's no point, because the research does the talking for us.

Sometimes videos are more accessible:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enPCZA1WFKY&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXB-pkGLnhk

I have always had my bitches spayed once mature after nearly losing a young bitch to a closed pyrometra back in the 1950s. Never had one develop cancer & all lived into their teens in rude health. I would never spay a prepubescent bitch & always allow them to have at least 2 seasons. Never had any temperament changes either.

The problems occur when bitches are spayed before they have a season & before they are fully mature.

Can't be bothered to trawl through masses of research that others have culled from what they have found in the internet, I go by my 60 plus years of personal experience of spaying my mature bitches, my dogs are left entire as there is no evidence to prove to me that castration prevents anything except testicular cancer(quite rare in dogs)& reproduction eventually( there is no finite time by which a dog becomes infertile after castration) I know of many dogs who have had severe health & character issues after being castrated especially those done pre puberty

> <br />The problems occur when bitches are spayed before they have a season & before they are fully mature. <br /><br />Can't be bothered to trawl through masses of research that others have culled from what they have found in the internet, I go by my 60 plus years of personal experience of spaying my mature bitches, my dogs are left entire as there is no evidence to prove to me that castration prevents anything except testicular cancer(quite rare in dogs)& reproduction eventually( there is no finite time by which a dog becomes infertile after castration) I know of many dogs who have had severe health & character issues after being castrated especially those done pre puberty

I can't believe I actually AGREE with the above Tommee!!    I'm aware that science will be moving on (hopefully) all the time, BUT not spaying before 1 season (or more?) would be in line with the vet I dealt with, with my Whippet.   And one can but hope he was utd with current thinking AND based on what he saw in Practice.   Most of our bitches weren't spayed until retired (show/breeding) so probably not until around 7 - 8 years of age.   Over the years, of those bitches we only had one with mammary cancer and I'd not want that for my worse enemy.   We never had a pyo but I have my own theory about why that was - none of our bitches left our properties when in season, so never squatted where there could have been infection to pick up- relevant with a low to ground breed.

My comments here can only really be based on my life 'with Basset', which began in 1972 but those articles were interesting, if for the most part, from a brief glance for the moment, dealing with breeds already prone to HD, ED etc. ?    Oh and our males weren't castrated, other than for medical need.    We did have two old boys castrated because of prostate problems (not cancer).

>Can't be bothered to trawl through masses of research

Well, I think that says it all really...