Hi guys

Just thought i'd ask some advise, we have nothing to worry about but its just a waiting game with our first bitch who is now on day 61 - its gone so quick !! We have everything we can think of ready, whelping kit, whelping box etc and our pet sheep have given us a few days off with nothing due now until next week (hopefully).

She was a bit unsettled yesterday evening, I got up to her twice in the early hours as she had a good old nest, newspaper everywhere and managed to get all of the vet bed on top of her so I ended up in a sleeping bag next to the whelping box and pen Shes been the same today, panting on and off, shredding newspaper occassionally but eats fine (greedy breed that never stop eating) and is having a wander around out of the box at the min. I took her out in the field this morning and she was reluctant to go far, just wanted a wee and headed straight back to the house where she would normally be the first waiting at the gate to the paddock.

My questions .... is she just getting uncomfortable or is it the stage one of labour, she doesn't seem in any pain, in fact she seems more settled now than she was earlier ... we're all curious of how long things will take and whether we will see any new arrivals tonight ?? we have nothing to compare to and know it can take some girls a while!

It sounds as though she is imminent so I'd stay with her if I were you. Sleeping by the whelping box is perfectly normal ;-) so make yourself a comfy bed there!
I hope your pups give you less hassle than the pesky lambs x

She is in what I call the "pre-labour" stage when bitches feel the urge to find somewhere to have their puppies and don't want to be too far away from home, not all of them do this but it is pretty standard behaviour.  She may exhibit other signs such as heavy panting, shivering, wanting to go out for a wee frequently,  digging under bushes or trees, vomiting and having a far away look about her.  Most of them go off them food just before proper labour or eat and vomit, watch her closely when she goes for a wee and you may see a string of mucous being passed, that normally means the pups are on their way and true labour will start within a few hours. 

It does vary between breeds and individuals, my GSD's all made a big fuss about whelping, digging, panting and crying for hours before actually getting down to business so my first whippet birth was a shock as my bitch showed no signs at all, went out for a wee then 5 minutes later wanted another and her waters broke, back in the house, up on the sofa she gave a grunt and out popped a puppy. She delivered all 6 in 4 hours during daytime and it was such a pleasure after spending 24 hours whelping the shepherds and going to the vets usually at 2 am with secondary inertia to have oxytocin administered.

It sounds as though she's in Stage 1 labour, which can last for between 12 and 48 hours. Don't leave her unattended at all (yes, get used to sleeping by the whelping box because you're going to be there for a couple of weeks!) and when she goes out for a wee at night, take a torch in case she has a puppy when she thought she needed a poo. Too many puppies are lost that way.

> (yes, get used to sleeping by the whelping box because you're going to be there for a couple of weeks!) and when she goes out for a wee at night, take a torch in case she has a puppy when she thought she needed a poo. Too many puppies are lost that way.

Too right re sleeping in the room by the whelping box and if she needs to go out once it's dark outside, I'd keep her on a lead in case she's of a mind to take off.  As said, all too often a puppy can be delivered, only to be found dead the next morning

Thanks guys and just to let you know her waters broke at 9.45pm last night, contractions around midnight, first pup at 1.45am and last pup at 5.45am. We had 6 in total (she was scanned for 5), one stillborn that we couldn't revive, it looked much smaller than the others are the bitch didn't really deliver it the same as she did the others so we're wondering if it was already dead but we do have 5 feisty youngsters, 3 dogs and 2 bitches.

As this is our first litter how cautious are people generally? Their mum is a bit of a clumsy first timer, lies on them, stands on them, flicks them around washing them a bit too much until they cry, doesn't seem too attentive to their squeals so we are literally checking every noise they make as we're terrified she'll seriously hurt one of them (our breed is a stocky gundog breed). However, if i'm not sure if we're actually making it worse but constantly checking up on her, its making her more anxious and protective and so shes trying to lie as close to the pups / with the pups under her but we're worried of her squashing them! If the whelping box didn't have rails 2 would have definitely been crushed by now :/

Also how soon do you allow free time ? She has a whelping box set up within a puppy pen, there is just enough room to lie outside of it with a water bowel etc if she wanted to get away from them. If I opened the puppy pen and let her have a wonder around would this help her anxiety if she could keep popping back to them?

There's no doubt that an 'anxious' breeder will probably pass on that anxiety to mum.   I'd keep an eye on things, maybe from a distance but if she is really rough with them, and for sure, lies on them you will have to be involved!   Some first time mums do take 24 hours or so to settle - have you had her and her puppies checked by your vet because if by chance, she has retained birthing material (perhaps even another dead puppy) in there, she won't settle and will need a shot to clear all that out.   Maybe even an x-ray to make sure she is empty.   Again a scan will only confirm or rule out a pregnancy at the time of the scan.  X-ray is far more reliable.

You might let her out but she must respond to their crying to be fed - probably roughly every 2 hours if they can't nurse as and when.   There really are no hard and fast rules with this - even the same bitch may be different from one pregnancy to another so I'm afraid this is a question of 'winging it', learn as you go along.   It's true that the more you fuss, the more she's likely to fuss.   Give her loads of reassuing praise so she should settle into her job.    Sometimes it's hard for a new mum to switch from being a pet, to being a mum!

Thank you for that, funnily enough everyone else is out of the house now, the only noise is the washer and I've left her to it in the front room but I can see her from our living room, shes fast asleep with pups either suckling or asleep. I think she may have been taking her anxiety out of the pups and going a bit over zealous of the cleaning front but time will tell! We've not had her checked by the vet but she has settled, eaten, had a drink and a wonder outside a couple of times for toileting so I do think she is done.

Yes, I agree I don't think she realises she now has a job at playing mum !

Thanks for your advice

I think you have answered your own question, let her have peace and quiet with you checking regularly but keep it all calm, covering her bed or cage will help, obviously making sure the cover can't fall onto the puppies, maybe keep other people away if she is anxious, some bitches don't really want to share their puppies until they are a little older.  Feed her well and take her out on a lead if she is reluctant to go out to toilet, wipe her feet if the outside space is wet and muddy, she should settle within 48 hrs and be much more relaxed into her new role as mum.  Good luck and enjoy your babies.

> wipe her feet if the outside space is wet and muddy,

I always wiped feet and teats (because mine is a low to ground breed) using a mildly diluted antiseptic solution before letting mum back in with her brood, even if the outside ground was dry!

Thanks for your replies, she is just finding it very stressful and we don't know what to do to help her best and obviously are worried in case she hurts any of the pups. I have just spoken to the vet who doesn't want to see her, thinks everything sounds fine, shes just trying to over mother, getting stressed which in turn is stressing the pups and shes plonking herself down without being careful.

We are going to try and be hands off and keep an eye from another room and let her settle with them .... although its hard when you hear them squarking !!

When I had a bitch like that, and it's especially hard with a heavy Basset dam (the potential for overlaying), I used to physically move the puppies to one side when she went back in from being out of the whelping box, and put them back on her once she was settled.   In fact I have been known to have a sizeable box and put the puppies in it while mum was out, making sure they had a good 'top up' before she left.   We had a brood lamp over the whelping box as we found it kept the whole area dryer than any other external heating and it is very important to keep the area round the box warm as newborn puppies can't regulate their own heat.   I still think she's having a hard time adjusting to being a mum.  Sillly thing.

I would still also say unless you can account for all the placenta it's best to get her checked and given a shot post whelping.  And also to have the puppies checked in case there's an abnormality you might have missed.  Is the owner of the sire an experienced person when it comes to whelping etc?    She might come in to take a look at what's going on for you?

Are the puppies gaining (might be too soon to know that) - and are they quiet other than the grunting they can do when nursing, in frustration when a teat 'runs dry'?  

You may end up, if she's not more upset at being kept from them, having to let her be outside the whelping box (provided there's adequate heating over the box) and only go in every 2 hours, when the pups start crying to be fed?    Is she poohing and peeing them?

I sleep right by the whelping pen for the first 3 weeks.  Maybe the last week of that is overkill, but I would definitely do 2 weeks.  Bitches can and do crush and injure and suffocate puppies.  There's no 'popping back' involved when you are living 24/7 in the same room...

I whelp them in my kitchen, so I can cook etc in the same room, I bring my laptop in there - there is no reason to leave the room unless to go to the loo or for a quick shower in the mornings (during which I have a camera set up on the whelping box). 

I give the bitch a bed immediately outside the box, so she can get some space whilst also keeping an eye.  And then my own camp bed, is next to her bed, so I can see over her bed into the box by just leaning up on my elbow.  I leave a desk light on, so there's enough light to see what's going on during the night.

I know with Hetty she was very protective the first few days particularly, like you say, I was moving them out from underneath, and she was tucking them safely under her chest! I just had to keep doing it, but trying not to be too intrusive and just making sure they could all breathe even if a bit of them was snugged underneath still. She did calm down after a few days. It might be best if just one of you stays with her for now, rather than having a crowd of people, even her own people, all getting involved.

Thanks for your replies !

I did end up speaking to her breeder, apparently her mother was exactly the same and very protective over her pups at first. We've been following her advice and keeping her in her whelping box and puppy pen and she's only really coming out for wees, very short walks and feeding etc then back in. She panics a lot when the pups cry which is when she tries to cover them or wrap herself around them, which apparently her mother does, we've just been calmly going in, asking her to lie down and putting all of the pups on to her teats and telling her what a good girl she is. Its only me and occasionally my mum handling them, been doing it virtually every 1.5 /2 hours overnight and sometimes during the day and she does seem much more settled, allowing them to suckle better and not being so protective over them so hopefully she'll settle down !

Typially, after saying it wouldn't, a couple of sheep decided to start lambing at the same time so it has been rather chaotic !!