Woke up Last night at 2am to my husband mumbling in a sleep dazed state "Chrriiiiss there's something wet on my leg" Turns out 4mth old Nugget had decided to do the most massive of wee's right in the middle of our bed, soaked right through my feather quilt down to the sheets!

3 nights ago we decided to see how he would go not being taken out for a potty trip when either myself or hubby got up to go to the loo in the middle of the night, which we both do at least once a night. Well i digress, our confidence in Mister Nugget was displaced, so night time trips are once again on the agenda. Hopefully one day he will learn to let us know when he needs to go out and pee, but until then we'll be taking him out. There was no whimpering, no attempt by him to get off the bed, no nothing!

i guess this post is somewhat of a vent, and i don't blame the pup, but ourselves by possibly expecting too much of the little mite. Is 4mths old to soon to expect a pup to hold it all night, I'm thinking it's a Yes? We take him outside for a wee at around 10pm, and i get up at 5:30ish every morning.

It's been 17 years since i had a puppy, and my memory is completely foggy on puppy trials and tribulations.

By the way, he's clean during the day. We have  doggy door, so he has never had to alert us when he needs to go out, he goes out by himself if he needs to poo/pee.

> Is 4mths old to soon to expect a pup to hold it all night, I'm thinking it's a Yes

Puppies don't develop much voluntary bladder control until around 5+ months, when they need to go, like with human toddlers, it is fairly immediate.

My terrier was very easy to housetrain, but I let him do last wee at 11pm and first wee at 5.50am until he was about 5 months old. 

From 5 months, I stopped letting him have the morning wee automatically; instead I waited for him to wake up and give a little whine (which by then he reliably did during the day if he needed to go out). Ironically my 10 yo dog decided for a while that SHE liked the early morning wees and woke me up (!!), but I'd say we gained about 5 minutes every few days and by 8 months he didn't really want to go out before 7.30 for his business even after I was out and about and the back door open for him.

Evening wees are automatic since my husband goes to bed 11.30 so he lets the little one out then (big dog can't be bothered with evening wees).

(he did start needing an early wee as a teenager suddenly but everyone assured us it was normal and he only did it a few times).

> By the way, he's clean during the day. We have  doggy door, so he has never had to alert us when he needs to go out, he goes out by himself if he needs to poo/pee.

And that is half your problem right there!  If he can always go the instant he needs to, he will never learn to hold it.  Psuedo-housetraining, I see a lot of people making this mistake, usually by just leaving the back door open (and I have made the doggy door mistake myself!).

Shut that doggy door, take him out often, praise him when he goes outside, rinse and repeat.  When he's reliable, start to extend how long he goes between toilet breaks.

I hate doggy doors. There is then the "my dog barks at everything when outside, my dog fence-guards" blah blah and "my dog has eaten XYZ toxic plant" and "my dog escapes"....!!!!!

I miss having it tbh - since I took it out, I've had two dogs on long term high dose steroids, with only months between one passing and the other going on them, and the 3am loo breaks wiped me out!  But the worry of what the dog was up to or what might happen stops me having one again, unless I was able to build a totally secure run outside the back door.

We've had doggy doors for our dogs since i was a kid, plus we have a cat that uses it a thousand times a day! Our yard is secure, and we don't have wild animals (foxes etc) coming and going, as i live in the city. I'm in Australia, so don't have the same wildlife as you guys. The one downside to a doggy door is that Nuggett has not learnt to ask to go out, as he has free run in and out all day.

I am so paranoid about him peeing on my bed in the night again, I have continued to take him out at around 2am every night, and he always does a huge piddle! I get up to go to the loo at around that time every night, so no biggie. I'm thinking of doing this until he is 6mths old just to give him a fighting chance of getting it right.

ETA: We go to bed early, around 9pm, and that's when he has his last wee for the night. I get up between 5-6am every morning.

It's not the wildlife I worry about!  Lots of dodgy people round here and in the time I had the doggy door, I had horrible neighbours, I had enemies of a lodger trying to get in, and I had someone actually get in to try and steal my xbox (didn't manage it once the dogs woke up, but still).  That's what stops me putting it back - I'm not worried about other animals and I do have foxes coming into the garden!

If he needs to go at about the same then yep, I'd be getting up and I would be very gradually pushing back that time - so 2am this week, 2.30 or even 2.15am next week and so on, so he learns to wait until you let him out, and you can take advantage of that and slowly push him back til he's holding it until you get up properly.