Hi all

With you all helping us find our breed I thought maybe I should ask for advice on beagle's on behalf of a family  friend. Zara's best friend is in love with beagle's she loves everything about them, she has read up on them has been to crufts a few times and just loves them but recently her neighbours moved out and her new neighbors are fine with her getting a dog but they don't want the dog to be constantly barking, so she has asked a few breeders about beagle's and barking and they have said that because beagle's love food they are daily easy to train and you can train them to not bark and that there beagle don't bark constantly, that as a breed they only bark if there a reason like someone at the door ect, and that there not happy dogs.

And since Zara suffers from tinnitus she still wants to be able to go to her friends house, Zara can deal with barking as long as it's not constant or the dog barks every 5 mins ect as to much exposure to loud noise causes her tinnitus to get worse.

So are the breeders right that you can train a beagle to be quiet and do they only bark for a reason? And do you think there a good choice for a first time owner? The breeders told her yes they are. I was just surprised.

Hum.   It would be nice if all prospective owners were able to listen to what NEW neighbours want!!  I think that's a touch cheeky to be honest. Initially there may well be noise from ANY puppy!!   Beagles can be trained of course, but they are a scent hound and not for everybody, especially if people want 'instant'.    Hounds would not be my first recommendation re obedience.   But you can't generalise either.   I have a Whippet who yaps.   Not, I think? a trait they all have. 

I have to ask whether these 'breeders' are respect, experienced people because all too often, breeders want homes for their puppies and will swear black is red to get a sale.   I think your friend should perhaps contact the Breed Club and by appointment go visit with known good breeders, even if they don't have puppies available at the time.  Most will be more than willing to sit with prospective new owners and answer all the questions they will have, and without aaah puppies around, seeing the ADULTS may be helpful re what to expect.

Beagles, like pack hounds, absolutely hate being left alone for hours and WILL be noisy, and destructive.  For starters.  And they must have a decent completely fenced area if they are thinking of having a Beagle.   Otherwise he/she will be off.

Thank you Zara is round her house now so I will text her to tell her so Zara can tell her.

This is one of the breeders she spoke to. https://www.beighleighbeagles.com

I know Zara told her to get a Eurasier so just incase she decides no to a beagle can anyone tell me if they have any experience with Eurasiers and what there like as Zara told her to get one of them as they don't bark as much as other spritz breeds or beagle's and her neighbour owns a chow chow so will probably be happy with a Eurasier. And Zara said there good family dogs and have great nature's? Any of this true.

Beagles are also really good at emptying bins. Any bins.

My Aunty has always had beagles so I just know things from what she's told me which is mainly that they do best in a pack so she's always had at least 2 at a time

I have stayed with them from when I've visited her and they weren't constant barkers, just as much as my spitz breeds bark really

I can't say I'd recommend them for a first time owner.  Recall is a big issue with most of them and requires a heck of a lot of training, IF it can be successful (it often isn't with a beagle and they have to stay on lead).  They will hit a scent and fly in an instant!

Barking wise they are certainly prone to being vocal, it is a known breed trait so for this situation, again, not a breed I'd recommend.  They tend to bay as well - loud, long multi-barks.  An alert bark on a beagle is quite a sound!  There's a littlun near me who spooks whenever she sees my dogs and will continuously bay at us until we're out of sight.  There are always exceptions of course but if low barking is required I would avoid them to be on the safe side.

The bay...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY6Vag2AWDM

In other ways they are lovely - very friendly, amiable dogs.  But always on the go, needing input.  Incessantly greedy and very prone to obesity.  But also fun!  They can be strong on lead too, if not trained from the get-go.

Thank you all so much for your advice, Zara told her what you said and after careful consideration she's decided to wait until she's more experienced before getting a beagle and to wait until the time comes in the future when she can get a detached house.

The thing is the only other dog she likes is the Giant Schnauzer? As the Eurasier doesn't appeal to her. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge on the Giant Schnauzer as Zara said there also vocal but Giant schnauzer are easier to train so should be easier to train to be quiet on command?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj50TJHPtDM

If you want a DECENT howl, try a Basset howl!!   It's compulsive.   Many's a time we'd come home to find the whole house rockin'.  One starts and the others HAVE to join in - whether from a deep sleep or not.   One time we got right into the kitchen before they realised we'd returned - and boy did they look GUILTY 

Isn't that what they call "the music of the hounds"?  (maybe not indoors though? (like a neighbour's musically gifted child practicing)).

Am I right in thinking it was a desired trait of the smaller scent-hounds, that they were bred to "sing" when hunting so that the hunters on foot could keep up with them?

I can imagine that Bassets in number would be impressive, with their deep chests and long muzzles for resonance.

Anyone have any experience or knowledge on the Giant schnauzer? And if you can train them to be quiet after they have alerted you to something?

Have you contacted the breed club? http://www.giantschnauzerclub.co.uk/breed_info.php

I've no knowledge of the giants, but a family member has miniatures - smart-looking little dogs which need regular coat care and have beards which soak up moisture and have to be wiped dry.

> they were bred to "sing" when hunting so that the hunters on foot could keep up with them?

Not so.   It's more about communicating with each other, letting the other know when they'd found a hot scent.   And yes, the music of the BASSET PACK.     It's not bred into them - it's genetically there .   And hunters actually don't want speaking that's just babbling.   Our first would do that - BUT when in Canada with our then two, it was as well that those two, including the babbler, did talk when on a hot scent as we could hear where they were (even if it was fading into the distance headed to the North Pole).  There's not a chance of keeping up with them btw.  Bassets may seem slow but it's more about how long they can keep up this 'slow' for - far longer than we could!   There's nothing like a Basset Pack in full cry.

The only thing I would comment on the Giant Schnautzer is their temperament, I was at a show last year in Malvern and fascinated to see all the schnautzers of all ages in the ring and outside mingling with each other without so much as a minor grumble, I was at the next ring watching another breed but very impressed by the GS's, not sure how much grooming they have to have, probably a lot by the look of them.

Thank you for your reply, Giants are my daughter Zara's favourite so she is over the moon that her friend is considering them.

The temperament you describe is exactly why Zara loves them as well bred , well trained, well socialized, well excersice (both physically and mentally) giants do have great temperaments and get on well with each other. Zara's friend has been in contact with an owner\breeder of the Giant Schnauzer and this is what she was told.

"Good morning

Where do I start , Giants are certainly not for the faint hearted and can certainly be very challenging. They are head strong, stubborn and need persistent training they also don't settle down in till about the age of 2!
They're also a very loving, loyal and intelligent breed who want to please..

We all have to start somewhere when we get our first dog and you sound like you are going to research the breed.

Finding a good breeder is important not only to make sure they carry out the right health tests as well as good temperaments  but to make sure they will be at the end of the phone/email for any little help and advice you will need..

A puppy is a blank canvas so it relies on you to point it in the best direction you can, this means a good diet the right exercise, training and socializing with the out side world, people and other dogs/animals..
You will get everything out of your dog that your willing to put in..

Most Giants end up for rehoming between the ages of 7/8 months to 24 months as these are the teenage months and just as you think you can stop the training because you've cracked it then think again!!

I currently have 4 giants

Kitty 9 1/2  years .
Albert 7 1/2  years..
Dora Just coming up 6 years
Belle just coming up 3 years..

I was fortunate enough to have worked with dog's for 15 years before I got Kitty so i knew what i was letting my self in for..
Kitty is mother to Albert and Dora from different litters and grandmother to Belle
Dora is Belle mother..
They all have very different characteristics and temperaments yet they all are very much giants with the traits we all love about the breed..

Kitty is very loyal and loving and loves being at home although she enjoys her walks she's happy to be along side you on the sofa.
She has a very good guarding instinct and is happy to show it while in the house and if needed whilst on walks as we go out at silly oclock in the morning to an open meadow..
But once she knows you your her best friend.
She is obedient in till she decides she's deaf which is normally when her head is a rubbish bin or rolling in something she shouldn't.. 

Albert is extremely laid back and has never really had any training he is currently a Pets at Therephy dog and attends a school weekly were he sits with children from the ages of 4yrs up while they read to him.
He absolutely loves people and everyone wants an Albert..
But don't let that fool you he is a hunter and will go after a fox, squirrel or a swan not bothered by ducks or geese so i have to make sure when the swans are on the lake we dont go to that part for him to swim, he even tries to get through the fence after the horses this got worse as he got to about 4yrs!
He loves being out running and once home he likes to try and sneak upstairs to curl up on the bed.
He's guarding isn't has good as my girls as he barks with excitement at the door becauae he can't wait to pick something up to bring to the first..

Dora is my complicated girl, she is loving loyal but extremely unsure of everyone and anything,  this started after she had her litter of puppies. I  felt dreadful after this and retired her from showing and breeding,  she suffered with post natal depression after losing 6 puppies out of a little of 11 it was heart breaking.
Before this she was my show girl so she was used to being out and about and being around strangers and other dogs she even attended Crufts on 2 occasions to which she done very well in her classes and great for me as i had never shown before I had her..
She Is also a hunter and will catch her prey but tends not to go after anything to challenging, she will swim after the swans if given a chance but doesnt get to close like Albert..
Her nervousness can take over her guarding instinct and she will certainly make herself heard so I have have to be a little careful with strangers but again like kitty once she knows you she will bark at you to be her best friend..
She Is the reason we go out so early as she started to get so over whelmed and nervous with lots of people, joggers, cyclist and some other dogs that she started having to be put on a  lead and she or me and the other dogs weren't enjoying our walks.
I didn't trust her. So I chose to take them all out very early morning so they all get the exercise they need..
She is also the more dominant bitch and will challenge the other two.

Belle.. She is the baby we started showing but she found it more fun to play with the other dogs and judges so we have given her a brake and will hopefully get her back in the ring in the near future.
She is lovable and loyal and gets on well with people and other dogs we attend some of the schnauzer walks which is mostly minis and she loves it.
She Can be a little nervous of new people but quickly realises all is ok.
She Is a bit of a hunter but tends to stay close and doesn't very often go out of sight.
Her only problem is she doesn't shut up she barks at anything and everything in the house,  the car and the garden but not when we are out..
It drives me insane!!
My dogs all live in the house with myself, husband and two children. I  dont use crates to shut them away when people come to the house, after the first 5 minutes the settled down and sleep..

I just wanted to give you an insight to 4 dogs that have been bought up together in the same environment with children as pets so you can see how different they can be.

Exercise I believe depends on you and your dog, lots of people say they need two hours.
What you Have to remember is if you start your dog of on big two hour runs (when old enough) then you have to continue with this.
If you decide on 3 x15 min runs a day then that is what your dogs body will get used to so he wont be able then to do a 3 hour walk when the weather is good!
My dogs like routine we go out once a day and I walk for 50 minutes while they run, hunt and swim. They have constant access to the garden and they have toys and bones to keep them occupied I touch wood none of them have been destructive.
Again it's finding what works for you, your dog and home life. 

I hope this helps A little please feel free to keep in contact and if you do find it easier to call then please do"

Another reply

"Hello , and thank you for your email

Where do I start? LOL! You ask a lot of pertinent questions which is good. Sorry, this is rather long winded. I could write a book on Giants.

I am now in my 50’s and currently have 3 Giants, a Male and two females. My old boy was my first Giant, he’s now 8 years old and I wouldn’t swap him for any other breed for all the world! He was my first dog for 25+ years. I grew up with Basenji’s and Borzoi’s as a child/teenager and I have to say I find Giants so much easier to live with and train.

Giants were originally bred for guarding and herding, so they are very alert to changes in their surroundings and this can lead to excessive barking if not nipped in the bud right at the start. When I just had the one Giant, I found this easiest to manage by acknowledging that he was trying to alert me to something by saying ‘ thank you’ and then telling him quiet and rewarding the quiet. I find it a bit more difficult to do now with 3 dogs. My girls are less barky, although one of them is my dogs daughter and she barks more than the other one.

I would say socialisation at a young age is absolutely key for a Giant. They need to be exposed to everything and everybody in a positive way as early and as much as possible. They are generally a very quick thinking intelligent dog, so if they are bored they will make their own entertainment. They are not a breed you can shut in the kitchen and go to work all day, as you will come back to no kitchen, and they will raid your cupboards, worktops, bins and fridge

My dogs get about 45 minutes walk off lead in the morning, then another 30 minutes late afternoon and possibly another 15 minute walk on lead late evening. (Depends if it’s raining as I don’t like them going to bed damp)  It’s seems to be sufficient for my dogs. They’d be quite happy to walk/exercise further if I wanted to. Mine tend to sleep all morning after their walk and breakfast.

As puppies, they need restricted exercise to avoid joint issues, so 5 minutes per month they are in age, twice a day.

Before I had my first Giant, his breeder recommended I read a book called The Dog Listener by Jan Fennell. I found it really useful and have based my Giant ownership on her methods. I also have a very good trainer, and my dogs have attended weekly training from a very young age, they really enjoy it and it’s great socialisation for them. I have found there is no given age when you stop training with a Giant!

Personality wise, they are very clever, single minded, stubborn, cheeky with a great sense humour! They are also protective, and can be subtle about it by placing themselves between you and another person, or bark a warning. Mine make me laugh everyday. They also have a head like a brick and paws like a boxer! They are extremely clumsy as puppies and young adults and have no concept of their own strength and size. Fat lips, black eyes, bumped noses and bruised feet are normal for Giant owners. If you give them an inch, they will take a mile. You need to be firm but fair from the outset otherwise they will think they are in charge of your household and your life.

If you wouldn’t choose a Doberman or Rottweiler  or German shepherd because of their perceived personality, then think carefully about a Giant as they are working dogs and were bred for the same purpose and have some common ancestry.

A Giant won’t moult like a Labrador for example where fur comes off on your clothes and furniture, but they do shed a little and you will see big hairy dust bunnies under your furniture! They’ll need regular grooming either at home or at a groomers. (Not all Groomers will take on a Giant!) Their beards can hold about a gallon of water. Giants are great excavators, so if you have a nice garden they’ll turn it into a bomb site. If you have a nice house expect muddy paws prints the size of saucers on your floor and worktops, beard slobber on your cupboards, mucky door frames at hip height, and your sofa will never be your own again!

I’m not saying all of the above to put you off, just giving you a realistic view of what’s its like to be a Giant owner. I’ve been a groomer for the last 4 years (I gave up a highly paid job to be home with my dogs!)  and have about 300 dogs on my books, of which 22 are Giants. There is not a single breed or cross breed that I would swap my dogs for, and give me a Giant to groom any day over a woolly poodle cross. Giants are to me perfect and that's what you need to do find what's perfect for you whether a Giant or another breed.

If considering a Giant, visit the breeder and meet their dogs. You might find Giants from show lines not quite as demanding as Giants from working lines, but I think a lot of Giant personality is what you put into to them. Just be aware that Giants aren’t really fully mature until they are about 2 years old, and they go through a definite naughty/ difficult teenage phase. Most Giants that are rehomed tend to be young adolescent males. But if you come out the other side of adolescent, then you will have a fantastic companion for 10+ years.

If you put in the time and effort, I think Giants are Ok for first time dog owners as long as they have done there research and have a realistic idea of what there taking on and that there going to seek help  from day 1 with training and socialization with being a first time owner and that they can meet the needs of the breed, but they are not for the faint hearted!

Good luck. Sorry I’ve rattled on"

These are tow replys she's had.

The Dog Listener by Jan Fennell

Really?? This woman bases "her" method on subtle domination & claims to have invented treat/reward based training(no clicker) 40 years after it was used by others.

I would advise looking at Karen Pryor's books & website before Ms Fennell, along with other true reward based authors.

Thanks tommee , Zara's friend ignored that part of the email as she's going to train her dog with positive methords. Do you have any experience or been around Giants tommee?

So far your daughter and her friend have considered three very different breeds (Beagle, Eurasier, and Giant Schnauzer) but I'm not sure if they have actually met any of them.  Beagles are fairly frequently seen, but Eurasiers and Giant Schnauzers less so. It's not clear what your daughter's friend is looking for in a dog, what experience she already has with dogs (will this be her first, or has she had day-to-day experience of caring for a dog?), what she would like it to offer her, and what she can offer it.

Crufts Dog Show is on at the beginning of March (http://www.crufts.org.uk/content/whats-on/).  Giant Schnauzers are shown in the Working Group on Thursday 8th March , Beagles are in the Hound Group (9th)  and Eurasiers in the Utility Group (10th). 

Crufts also hosts Discover Dogs  http://www.crufts.org.uk/content/whats-on/discover-dogs-at-crufts/  It might be well worth your daughter and her friend visiting Discover Dogs, where they can see representatives of many breeds, and get a better idea of the sort of dog which both appeals to your friend and will give her what she is looking for in a dog, and also is suitable for her situation and lifestyle.

Hi

Zara's friend has already decided that the beagle is not for her and the Eurasier does not appeal to her it's just the Giant she is interested in now. The Giant does match her better than the beagle. This will be her first dog but she's planning on learning everything she can before owning one and plans on getting a behaviourist in from day one to help prevent any issues with her being a first time owner.

> it's just the Giant she is interested in now

In that case, if any of the breeders she has contacted offers her the opportunity to visit and meet the adult dogs, I hope she will take up the offer.  Nothing beats seeing and touching the real dog "in the fur"!

She's also coming to crufts with us in march as we're ( me and my tow daughters) going to meet the Golden retriever. One of the breeders did invite her to come and meet her dogs but she's busy preparing for crufts so she said that they could meet at crufts as her Giants will be at the discover dogs part and then after crufts she can meet them in there natural environment.

The following group is worth joining, as well perhaps as Facebook groups on the breed. I joined this when I was considering a mini. There were people with Giants too.

http://www.schnauzer-forum.co.uk/index.php

Not really apart from seeing one doing obedience at crufts in the regional competition in 2016 on Youtube. Not many do Working Trials, there have been a couple working as police dogs I think in Surrey. They are a very strong breed & do need lots of mental exercise & regular coat care