Good Afternoon

I would be very greatful if you could help me with advice on the Dalmatian.

I have never owned my own dog before and am in love with the Dalmatian, every time I see one in the park/town or at crufts I melt inside and light up. my auntie had owned tow so I was brought up around them and understand the breed as I also studied the breed for Five years reading hundreds of books meeting as many dal'S as I can. the thing is I was talking to a local Dalmatian owner and she said that Dalmatians  are hyper, highly strung and neurotic and are the dog version of a psyco and  have a few issues that a newbie would not be able to cope with like there potential to become aggressive and  that if it goes wrong it can be dangerous with a Dalmatian. And that they need 4-5 hrs of exercise a day and there still mad after that?

What do you think do you agree. Are Dalmatians aggressive and neurotic? As iv not read this when researching the breed?

The Dalmatian owner recommended a Labrador Retriever because there more stable in temperament and that they are not as hyper as the Dalmatian but I just can't help how I feel when I see the Dalmatian , I plan on going to training class's and even getting a one to one dog behaviourist to help me with him\her being my first Dog so that I can prevent issues rather than fix.

I can provide 2hrs of physical exercise a day including off lead exercise and tons of mental exercise 4x a week and then the other 3x a week is unlimited exercise and a mixture of  long ( and I mean very long ) walks in the country or bike rides where the dog runs alongside my bike, I also enjoy runs so would take my dog with me twice a week on a 45min run. I'd also like to do agility which I think a Dalmatian would like. Basically I'm a very active person. I won't be doing long country walks and bike rides in the same day it will either be a long country walk where we will be out all day and then another day will be a run and bike ride in the same day. But as I say this is for 3 days a week and the other 4 days  would be 2hrs physical exercise and lots of mental exercise. Would a Dalmatian be happy with this?

Many thanks
Jenny

ones I have met were rather hard work- but no more so then similar athletic dogs like weimaraners/ dobies, pointers etc.  
If  you can put the work in, do the exercise, do the training then you will make a good dalmation owner.   I don' t see any sense of getting a breed that does not appeal to you.   I would say in my experience I think females of any breed tend to be a little more biddable then males- in our local park it always seems to be the boy dogs who pull naughty stunts like refusing to come back,   aggression, nerves etc can be a result of bad breeding as well as  bad training so make sure you buy from a reputable breeder & that you like the temperament of the pups mum.

Thank you very much. I was brought up around German shepherds it was only my auntie who had Dalmatians.

I was looking for a breed with similar energy levels to the GSD as I'm happy with there energy level. So would a Dalmatian be higher than a GSD as I know Weimaraners are higher then GSD as my sister has one.

I heard with Dalmatians the aggression and nerves come not so much from bad breeding but are genetically associated with their white skin. That's just pure hearsay though not sure if it's true or not.

The amount of exercise sounds amazing BUT bear in mind that ANY puppy, especially large breeds should not have hours of walking let alone running with a bike until they are physically mature. General 'rule of thumb' is 5 minutes per month of age for structured lead walking plus pottering/running/playing off lead in garden

yes v similar to weimaraner.  not 5 hours though! nothing needs that level!   and until  matured exercise needs to be carefully tailored so as to not damage growing joints so you will not have a running  partner/ long walk pal for 18 months.

Year the exercise I said I can provide would be for an adult when they can have this amount without damaging the joints, I should have said this before.

I did read about the white skin and aggressive behaviour  http://www.border-wars.com/2013/05/why-dalmatians-are-a-train-wreck.html

I'm starting to think Dalmatians are not for me as I know my sister's Weimaraner is way to energetic for me. I'm going to be honest with all of you there is another breed that makes my heart sing like it does for the Dalmatian and that's the GSD I looked in to a GSD first and know a lot more about the GSD then the Dalmatian and have experience with GSD as I helped my parents when I was young with training and walking and helped even in my teenage years. The thing is I'm not (and I don't mean any offence to anyone on here who owns a snowline) a fan of the snowline shepherds as a behaviourist told me to avoid them until they improve as my parents shepherds looked like the black and white photos how shepherds use to look with straight backs. Working lines straight backs but there to driven for me so have been looking at long coats as they seem to have straight backs but I found it hard to find a breeder who DM tested so crossed the GSD off.

Between the tow which is hard to pick but I think I love the GSD just a bit more and there energy levels suit me more. I just can't find many breeders who DM test , I don't know if DM testing is really important or not as the behaviourist told me to find a breeder who DM tests , hips and elbows test and then a test for males but forgot what it was called I know it begins with a H.

Most of the dallies I've met have been friendly and confident; the one nervous one I've met was bred from a very nervous mother.  So while the info on colour and aggression is fascinating and I will certainly be looking into that more, breeding does still play a part as it does with all dogs.

If weimies are too much then yes, dallies might be too much as well.  A lot does depend on how you raise them and what you do with them - i.e. mental vs. physical stimulation as it's easy to run their legs off and end up[ with a superfit dog.  I have a dalmatian/dobermann cross here and he is calm and easy to manage, but that did take an awful lot of work.  He was certainly an energetic handful when I got him at 14 months old!

As far as GSDs go I'm not at all keen on the popular show shape but working line dogs can be VERY hard work.  A friend has owned, trained and bred GSDs for 30ish years and lost her working line bitch a couple of years ago to old age - she also has a malinois, malinois cross and dutch herder and I recall her swearing she will never have another working line GSD because the drive and energy level was just too much!

You will struggle to find decent breeders who do all the right testing, as with any popular breed the vast majority of breeders aren't doing it right.  But, keep looking!  Ask on here, or try joining a DM group on Facebook - there will be one.  I joined one for DCM in dobermanns after spending years trying and failing to find a breeder that did everything right, and now I have a list.

Possibly the test is for haemophilia as it can be an issue in the breed, I believe.

Thank you so much, that was it haemophilia I just couldn't think what it was called.

I definitely am certain that the Dalmatian is not for me and I looked at GSD first so I think I would be happier with a GSD.

And working lines I've been around and know there to driven for me and as I say I'm not a fan of snowline . I appreciate that those who own them that there , there beloved pet but it just my personal opinion is that a GSD should look like this http://gsduk.boards.net/thread/747/parts-make-german. If you look further down on the page there are black and white photos and that's my type of GSD.

I'm so glad.i joined this form as you all have helped me and can't believe how quick you all helped so thank you to all of you.

With the GSD I don't have any doubts about them as they suit me in everyway and am not worried about anything so don't have to ask anything on them so I'm going to add the GSD back on my list in hope I can find a breeder who DM tests. We're do I ask if I wanted to ask for breeder recommendations for a GSD breeder who DM tests, hips,elbows and Haemophilia tests?

If you are looking for a fully health tested "Alsatian"type sadly you will not find one as the breeders of this type do not do ALL available health tests & there is a higher incidence of idiopathic epilepsy due to the bloodlines going back to known epileptics. One or two pay lip service to help scoring, they score but still use dogs with poor hips. Temperaments can also be a problem as the breeders breed to the 1950/1960s breed standard of "noted suspicion of strangers"which allows nervous dogs to be shown successfully even today under some judges.

BTW health tests include other DNA tests than DM & bloodlines need to be checked for known epileptics that lurk way off the 5 generation pedigrees most people check

So there's no point in me looking into GSD's then. So now I'm unsure what to get?

If I start a new post could you all help me find the right breed for me? As I think with how unhealthy and how hard to find GSD are I shall keep them off my list for now but do you think there is hope for the GSD that one day the snowline will improve or there will be more good breeders?

Depends on the "type"you are looking for. I have no personal experience of owning "Alsatians"however I do have friends with working bred German German Shepherds as opposed to imports from the Czech republic, other eastern European countries etc. These are dogs bred to work, but also to be companions. Probably not as high drive as the sports bred dogs that are flooding the country & that the Police buy in as fully trained licenced police dogs instead of training them in house.

Too many people remember "Alsatians"& view them through rose coloured glasses. GSD should not have a level backline, they are a gaiting breed & to have a level backline in stance means the dogs"run down hill" when gaiting because they have to extend their front legs with means their shoulders & forehead is lowered. Most dogs have withers higher than their backline so that when they move their backline is then level & the dog depends less energy.

As for Dalmatians I know an ex breeder whose dogs are not hyper nor OTT, but she is very experienced & training starts at an early age.

Can you tell me more tommee as I thought GSD were supposed to have straight backs like Belgian shepherds?

The only reason I was not looking at the working line is all those I've met are very driven . But I prefer the look of the working lines, so are there working lines that are not so highly driven , ones that would make good pets? And are the working lines you mentioned are these breeders more likely to health test fully? If you can help me on the path of finding a fully health tested , good temperament GSD I would be very greatful , all I really want is a GSD but am not a fan of snowline and don't want one who so driven ?

English pointers are a good dog= would be up for all that running around you enjoy but less hyper then a dalmation.  similar shape, healthy breed & every one I've met I'd take home

Thanks I'll put them on my list put won't to wait to see if there's hope with the GSD. Are English pointers a healthy breed as if all fails with the GSD I would only want to consider healthy dogs? And are they easy to train?

pointers are gun dogs which tends to mean trainable.  ones I've met were all well behaved although they all had good owners too which is main thing.  not too popular so less idiots breeding them which helps on health front
You would do well to go to a large dog show & meet dogs/breeders to get more of an idea what you want

If you analyse most breeds of dog(there are exceptions like Bedlingtons who have a more arched backline)their withers(top of the shoulders)is higher than the backline. A GSD should have a level backline in motion ie the withers, back & group are level not in stance, the breed standard has always required a slope from withers to croup, even when the breed was in it's initial develoment & Von Stephanitz's foundation dog Horand certainly did NOT have a level backline, he had a marked dip behind the withers & he is the dog so many "Alsatianists"believe to have the"correct"look amongst the German dogs. They do however generally regard
other dogs as ideal none of which has a level backline either in stance or in motion due to excessive length of back & coupling & lack of length of leg. If you look at the winners from Nov 2017 on the link you will see dogs being shown in direct contravention of current rules for showing GSDs under KC rules !!!!

Yes there are working line GERMAN GSDs that are OTT, they are bred too be companions working dogs & not purely sport dogs. You do have to do your research & meet the actual dogs & juusst to on hearsay & pedigree. My personal preference is for the stock working dogs as this is what the breed was originally developed for(hence the name Shepherd Dog)they have a easier character & attitude to life. You will see the qualification HGH after their names.

Like all working breeds they do need training from day 1 so they do not get into bad habits & you can start as early as 6 weeks(younger if you are the breeder)with the very basics like recall, following you around etc. All dogs need brain exercise no matter what the breed

I already know what I would like in a dog.

Large in size no bigger than an Irish setter, exercise as stated above but a dog who's not hyper by this I mean can settle down in the evening and is calm in nature ( I'm taking about an adult as I know puppy's are carat for the first year or so) , pretty healthy compared with the GSD for example, does not drool to the extent of a newf, is great with children and other dogs, is fairly Friendly to strangers but not like labradors who love everyone as that's what put me of labs. But I don't won't a guard dog or a dog who will be very wary of strangers just is ok with strangers but isn't bothered if there , there or not and is loyal to me, grooming is not an issue as my sister is a dog groomer, I like a playful dog and one who is fairly easy to train and is a good family dog ( I live alone but family members are always dropping by) who's good natured and is a good choice for a newbie. And lastly energy levels no more than a GSD for example a Weimaraner although stunning dog would be to much for me?

Does this still sound like an English pointers? And another breed recommendations?

Thanks I'll see if I can find any breeders of the type you mention but to all other members who read this post I would still be greatful for any breed recommendations incase I can't find GSD breeders I'm looking for so that I have other breeds I can look into.

you ever met a working line lab?  I have and was amazed, v sparky clever fun athletic dog,, nothing like the flat natured obese creatures that plod around park usually.

There is a Dal breeder on this forum. I'll ping her a message to let her know you've posted asking questions

Working line golden retriever?

They are friendly though, but can be taught to ignore strangers as mine does unless they come into the house when they, are far as she is concerned, primarily there to see her (not us).

The working bred dog is more inclined to enjoy being out all day exploring the countryside, have plenty of energy to go for a run, are not as heavily built as the show bred golden and often have a less profuse coat.

If this does appeal make sure that the breeders has health tested the parents for hips, elbows and eyes at the very least as well as temperament.

I have met a working lab and they still did nothing for Mexico wish I knew why. I am really liking the look of English pointers. What's weird is the way I am with the lab yet I think goldens are stunning but I know this will sound weird but I prefer the snowline goldens but I'm worried about cancer in the breed as I read once that they have an above average chance of getting cancer compared to other dog breeds and my sister said that of all the breeds she's groomed the golden is the one who's always aggressive or snappy?

I've had dals for 40+ years, and they're boisterous, energetic, and emotionally sensitive, with a great sense of humour. If treated badly, by someone who doesn't understand them, they won't react well, but they're very rarely aggressive, and they certainly aren't 'psychos'!

When they're adult they'll take as much exercise as you can give them (remember they're designed to trot steadily for 20 miles or so) but as growing puppies you need to stick with the '5-minute rule' (walks of 5 minutes per month of age) so as to not damage the developing joints. However as long as an adult gets a couple of walks a day, with some off-lead running, they'll be okay with an hour a day.

>Large in size no bigger than an Irish setter, exercise as stated above but a dog who's not hyper by this I mean can settle down in the evening and is calm in nature ( I'm taking about an adult as I know puppy's are carat for the first year or so) , pretty healthy compared with the GSD for example, does not drool to the extent of a newf, is great with children and other dogs, is fairly Friendly to strangers but not like labradors who love everyone as that's what put me of labs

That sounds like a dalmatian, or perhaps an Irish Red & White Setter (not easy to source though). The main problem with dalmatians is the gazillion tons of short white hair they shed every day! Good breeders will BAER test their puppies so you know you're not unknowingly gettng a deaf puppy (linked with the white coat).

Thank you Jeangenie , so to you Dalmatians are not as active as Weimaraners? The ones I met at crufts did not seem hyper and the owners there told me dal'S are a thinking breed and can even be happy with 1 he of exercise a day as long as they get loads of mental to tire them out. And what do you think of the whole white skin and aggressive thing?

The only other dog on my list at the moment is the English pointer but just like the GSD I would add the Dalmatian in a heart beat.

I've had four goldens and non of them have suffered from cancer, only a small sample of course. As to aggression issues, it's why I recommended making sure the breeder temperament tests as well as health tests. Generally goldens are good natured souls, but there has been an aggression problem in some lines and also with poor breeding practices.

Another one to consider is a welsh springer, a bit smaller then perhaps you are looking for but they are an energetic dog with being as OTT as English springers

Dalmatians are, in my experience, much more sensible and less hyper than Weimaraners - and smaller! Dals are very clever and love to learn; the people who find them difficult to handle and destructive usually don't give them enough to do. And a bored dalmatian will go self-employed and find something to entertain themselves! Regarding the white skin and aggression - this is honestly the first I've heard of it! Personally I'd treat it with an enormous spoonful of salt! Pointers and dalmatians are really very similar indeed, except that pointers, like setters, are designed to work independently at a distance from people (several fields away hunting for birds) whereas dalmatians were designed to stay closer (following horses and carriages).

If I got a call I would give it lots to do. So it looks like the Dalmatian will be going back on the list , yay.

With crufts comming up I'd advise having a wander around the discover dogs stands. If your intrested in gsd I'd also go and watch the judging and see if any of them take your fancy and speak to their owners afterwards, see what testing they do.

That was supposed to say if I get a dal. Can you tell me more about the dal Jeangenie like what is like living with one , what are the downsides to a Dalmatian, what is it like training a Dalmatian, what do you love about them that you've continued to own them for 40+yes?

I've met some boisterous Dalmatians but it's just young high spirits. I reckon with the level of exercise you would give, a Dallie would be very happy. I'd second the suggestion to get yourself to Crufts and have a good look round Discover Dogs - bearing in mind that some of the dogs might be tired from a busy day greeting people so be more chilled out than on a normal day!

The downsides; they're demanding (they insist on being involved in whatever you're doing!), they shed hair like there's no tomorrow, they need careful feeding because they're prone to bladder stones if fed foods like oily fish, offal, yeast (a bit like the foods human gout sufferers have to avoid) and the white coat means they're prone to hereditary deafness (which as I said good breeders will test for). Otherwise, if you want a dog to join in whatever you're doing (and you have a sense of humour!) then consider a dal. If you want a dog that snoozes in the corner of the room until you're ready to do something with it, think again! The upsides; all the above!

Shedding does not bother me , wanting to be involved in everything is no bother either, the low purine diet I already know about and the deafness I know about to.so dal'S seem like a great fit.most people fell in love with dal'S because of the 101 films but I felt in love from watching a Dalmatian as a kid trot alongside the horses I use to ride as a kid.

Leonbergers, but they are bigger than you want.

Year Leo's a stunning as well but there to big for me. I'm really thinking that the Dalmatian is the dog I'll choose now with Jeangenies help but pointers are still on the list and I'll be going to crufts so the breeds that are on my list I can see in person and luckily as I'm self employed I can go any days I want and so far shall be going on the gundog group day to see more pointers in person and the utility day to see Dalmatian in person.

We attended ring craft classes fir a couple of years and they had a lot if Dalmatians there. They were all hyperactive and crazy. We have owned GSD in the past and would certainly prefer that breed. Hard to get a good one I know but certainly calmer than a Dalmation.

Oh, before I forget; dalmatians hardly ever need washing, unless they roll in something unmentionable! They have a naturally waterproof, 'Teflon' coat that, when mud dries, it just falls off.

Same with my Maremma and Golden Retriever!  Come in filthy and a couple of hours later squeaky clean again.  I find it all on the wood floor next morning though lol.

Ok so as an update after further looking online and research iv decided it's a no to the German shepherd for now.

On my list is the Dalmatian, pointer can anyone give more breed recommendations to what I want in my earlier reply. If been looking into setter but am unsure if there to hyper for me.

I also forgot to mention that I don't want a dog who barks constantly, I don't mind barking at knocking on the door, cat in the garden ect but not constantly at everything.

Hopefully with more recommendations I can have a list of breeds to look at and will choose once I've been to crufts.

A carefully bred working labrador from health tested parents of great temperament would tick all your boxes, as weimed mentions above - but obviously no good if you do not warm to them!

I am a great fan of Pointers.  I grew up with them and have owned them as an adult.  Beautiful dogs and make great companions.  Very athletic but also happy to snuggle up on the sofa and chill out. 

In my experience they are a sensitive, gentle breed and they respond well to training and love their humans.  Because they are (obviously!) bred to "point" they like to range a long way from their handlers which they are required to do when working - so training a really solid recall from an early age is very important (but then it is with any dog!)

The ones I have known have not been great barkers.  They have been friendly with people and dogs but not excessively.  I have known some which are on the nervous side so, as always, it would be important to find a breeder for whom temperament is paramount.

I have been tempted to have a Pointer again but in the end we decided that the working Labs are a little more versatile and will turn their paws to any activity you care to choose (although one of my Pointers did absolutely love retrieving!)

Good luck with your decision.

I'm really liking what I'm reading on the setter group mainly the Gordon and Irish read and white setter but am worried the Irish read and white setter is rare as it won't be for a few years once I have decided on a breed.

English setters are not hyper, compared to Irish or some other gundogs.  Love Gordons too, as one of Elkhound pups owners had them as her main breed.

Ok so iv been doing further research and have found another breed I might add to the list , the Eurasier? They seem to bark less than most other spritz and are active dogs that are indifferent with strangers

Standard poodles of course (but I would say that).

Very loving with us but not hugely bothered for other people (friendly but aloof, once past the puppy stage), extremely trainable, bags of energy, but lie about all day in the house.

The main downsides are the coat (buy decent clippers and shave them down yourself every 6-8 weeks is a perfectly reasonable approach and saves a fortune in grooming costs) and that some lines especially show lines are a bit neurotic. Can be avoided by finding a decent breeder with stable parents. We have particoloureds which are gorgeous but "incorrect" so not good for showing but fab for obedience, agility etc.

Jeangenie also has red and whites.
I've passed on to the Gordon poster on here too you've been asking about them.
Personally of the ones I've met the Gordon's are far easier than a Pointer to train and live with.
I couldn't own the average hpr like the vizsla, pointer, weim etc but I could live with a Gordon. Bear in mind the coat and all the grooming which goes along with owning a setter. They will bring everything back in their coat from a walk.

If your heart is with the Dal then I wouod now be seeking out a breeder or breeders to go and meet their dogs in their homes.
Going through all these breeds you'll end up in dizzy circles.
Sounds like you've researched the breed and would like to own one. Next step finding some good breeders.

I used to have an Irish Setter who took five years before I felt he had grown up and become an adult. Lovely dog though. I did spend a lot of time training him and feel I got back what I put in. He had a great recall, very friendly and easy going but an astonishing sense of smell for game birds. One tiny sniff and he was off and flushing out a sitting pheasant.