My litter will be six weeks on Wednesday and weaning was going so well up until Saturday when I woke to poo gate. It was everywhere,  up walls, windows, half way across the room outside their pen....

As always, I started weaning on beef minced with goat's milk and then introduced (at week 5) kibble. They can eat kibble without soaking now and have progressed to beef chunks. I have always dual weaned at six weeks by leaving kibble out over night and it is usually eaten by morning.

They can't really chomp on chicken carcass yet (or they refuse to), which is what I'd give to help firm up my older dogs.

I have given a little yoghurt to help the gut flora, stopped the milk and lessened the raw but as we are on day three now, just a little worried that it's not easing up.

Anything else I can do?

Little pups can get dehydrated and go downhill fast, so if there is a lot of watery poo going on for 3 days, I'd call the vet out - likely they need some antibiotics.

If you have a mincer you could chop a chicken into around 1inch pieces and run it through the mincer bones and all.
They usually dive into it.

If they are very runny, bone needs to be minced very fine or will just go through them. I would get slippery elm powder and weaning paste ( very finely minced chicken with bone in)

I would definitely involve the vet. In my experience it is very common with bad stomach upsets at this age. Always best to have it checked, even if all the vet does is send you home with some Pro-Kolin or similar.

Yes I would go for pro=kolin. Safe and gentle and usually does the trick.

> Always best to have it checked, even if all the vet does is send you home with some Pro-Kolin or similar.

Sadly once this happens, next time you don't really see the point going to the vet stressing the puppies when they are already not well and spending the money for nothing.

One time we had a litter of puppies 8 weeks old healthy and strong, went to have their first vaccinations and health check and the very next day each puppy but one has fallen very ill and very quickly - vomiting everywhere, watery poops, no interest in water or food and finally being completely lifeless blank eyes sitting or lying in the corners of their pen and only thin grunts of pain here and there. All in the matter of hours.

Needless to say we rushed to the vet, I asked the nurse on the phone if I should bring one puppy only, given that they all were in the same state and at least the others would stay at home without being moved, given that we live 3 minutes away from the practice and if hospitalisation was necessary I would have brought the rest in no time. No, the nurse insisted that we bring the whole litter. So we brought the whole litter. The vet however examined only one puppy having heard that the rest had the same symptoms, said he didn't really know what was going on, and prescribed pro-kolin and rehydration fluids both of which we keep in regular supply at home.

I think I was mostly annoyed that the practice insisted we bring the whole litter which was completely unnecessary. I could understand the vet not knowing why the puppies were ill, because I didn't know either; having had dogs all my life and several litters I've never came across or heard about such situation. If this happens agains however, I don't see myself going to the vets because in the end it did feel like a waste of time... Definitely won't be bringing the whole litter no matter what the practice insists on.

Good news were that puppies recovered as quickly as they have fallen ill, after squirting rehydration fluid in their mouths every hour and smearing pro-kolin paste on their tongues three times a day, in about 6 hours they started coming back to life, and next morning were bouncing about as normal though soft poops lasted for another 3 days or so until they firmed up.

Vets need to examine every animal they are prescribing medication for, it would be unethical for them to see one puppy and prescribe meds for all of them.  If you don't want to take a litter to the vet, call the vet out to make a house call.

We had ongoing runny poop problems with our last litter at 7wks, it had gone on for about 4 days - not watery but just messy.  The pups were fine in themselves.  I called the vet out and he examined them and prescribed Synulox.  They were immediately back to normal again.  I would not hesitate to do the same next time.

> Vets need to examine every animal they are prescribing medication for, it would be unethical for them to see one puppy and prescribe meds for all of them.

Except in my situation the vet didn't examine every puppy, but only one of them. As such it would seem the ethical considerations weren't the ones they were guided by...

You can get pro-kolin with no prescription. My vet has given it to me without seeing pups where the puppies were otherwise normal.
Or on occasion I have bought online as a bit cheaper.

And rehydration powder too, no prescription is needed. Both are good things to have in the house as first aid! Online is quite cheap to buy, if not Manor Pharmacy prices are reasonable. With what vets charge for the same products, makes you wonder how they sleep at night.

True but we must remember they are there when we need them, have to pay premises and staff costs and with the minimum wage and staff benefits it is not surprising they have
to charge more. My vet is very reasonable and good to us so I try and mix what I do. Sometimes I buy from him to support him and sometimes I buy online.
I had to see him the other day with my girl who is only expecting one puppy and had a discharge and after 15 minutes and him suggesting no treatment I offered to pay for his time and he said don't worry. I guess it depends on your vet.

I agree it definitely depends on your vet. And large part of the grief is due to this fact I think....

The prices vary so much between practices, including practices in the very same area, that it becomes difficult to reasonably explain this by reference to staff and premises expenses. Just looking at some recent threads vet prescriptions for example. Some vets charge £9-10 for a prescription, others £18. The same is the case with prices they sell medications for, prices for surgeries and so on.

By all means we need vets however it doesn't follow we should abandon the use of our own brains. Experience, information, knowledge means a person may be capable of deciding whether a visit (or a particular medication the vet is prescribing) is necessary.

Agreed

>Experience, information, knowledge means a person may be capable of deciding whether a visit (or a particular medication the vet is prescribing) is necessary.

With adult dogs, I would for sure use all means at my disposal (ie non prescription) before going to the vet.  But with young puppies under 8wks, they can go downhill so fast that I think it's best to get the vet in if it goes on for longer than a few days - rather than trying various things yourself for several days each time, only to find that each one leave you no better and the pups have then had the problem for longer...

Thank you for all the positive support and advice.

In the end we went with taking mum away from pups apart from a short five minutes last thing at night, cut out the goat's milk, rice mixed with some kibble and chicken carcasses for recreation. They have had pro-kolin and kefir to help balance the gut flora and are doing much, much better.

The only issue we have at the moment is with a single pup who pooped a small amount of blood tonight. I shall keep an eye on her and if it occurs again tomorrow, I shall take her in. Right now, it could just be down to the bone she has eaten.

All pups are gaining, eating, drinking and playing happily so I'm as ever, very grateful for all your help :)

Pup Update : Wow what a Christmas - so my scanned bitch carrying 4-6 puppies was only actually carrying 2 !! Both doing really well - 2 weeks old and both around 900g . So now the big question. I held back and did not worm prior to delivery as my bitch was wormed every 3 months from a pup. I bought 22% panacur granules for her but decided against it prior to delivery as some breeders seemed to feel any kind of chemicals were harmful to the bitch and pups at this delicate time. My pups are now 2 weeks 1 day old and I am thinking of waiting until 3 weeks when I start a little food and worming them on full tum. Can I use the panacur 22% - leaflet says it needs to be 10% is this right? what do folks use then for the pups - should I just ring vets and get some liquid? Can I do my bitch now with the 22% and how often should I be doing her?

I use Panacur 18.75 paste for the pups and use Milbemax for mum.

Jules...

I agree with waiting to 3 weeks for the first worming.

You can't use Panacur 22% granules on the pups, because the concentration of the drug is too high in these to get the dose right for little pups.  That's why they need the 10% liquid OR the Panacur paste in the syringes.  (Same stuff Dolph is talking about with the 'paste'.)

I would not worm the mum now, I would wait until you worm the pups and then worm mum and pups at the same time to avoid them reinfecting each other and passing worms back and forth as she eats their poop, for example.  Worm them all when pups are 3wks.  Mum will only need one dose and can have the 22% granules.  Pups will need a 3 day dose of either the 10% or the Panacur paste.  I usually do mum the middle day of the 3 days when the pups are wormed. 

I find the Panacur syringes way easier with little pups than the 10% liquid.  You just stick the syringe in their gobs and squeeze the stuff directly in there.  With the liquid, it's much runnier and whilst you can add it to food, you then have to supervise each pup eating to be sure they get their dose, all of it, and don't eat someone else's(!). 

So I totally recommend the Panacur syringes for little pups.  If you order the stuff online now, it will probably arrive in a week's time when you need it...