Morning everyone
Upto now I've had a nightmare with my current litter, they're now 8 days old and when they were 5 days old I lost 4!! Called the vets and they said there's probably not much we can do for them at that age so I just hoped all the others would be fine.

So I had 4 remaining puppies all feeding well and all nice sizes and this morning I've just lost another puppy!! I'm devastated as I thought we were over the worst because they were growing so well!

Could this be fading puppy? Am I going to loose the last 3? So worried now

Sorry to hear about your litter. Not sure if this is of any help: "FADING PUPPY SYNDROME"

I was going to add that link - it's a good one but there are other websites about this distressing condition if you search.

https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/puppy-fading-puppy-syndrome-in-dogs

Thankfully we've never experienced this but the breeder of my Whippet lost 19 (yes!!) Whippet puppies in two litters.   That would have put me off for good.   I hope you bring these puppies through.

Keeping the pups on the warmer end of what they can tolerate, is best because apparently it kills the virus if it's CHV.

Did you have the CHV (herpes) vaccinations before mating and during pregnancy?  If not, it could well be this...

Facebook Replies:

Finola Jolly says:  There is a FB page on Fading Puppy Syndrome and also on Fading Puppy Formula

Jacqueline Dermody says:  I had the same thing happen a number of years ago. All good weight and feeding and then dying one after the other. I only managed to save one and that one I nursed and fed every hour with a syringe. He grew into a beauty and lived until he was 8 only to succumb to an accident on my own land by a neighbour's car. It's heartbreaking. Stay strong and do whatever you can.

Thanks for all the replies, 3 doing ok so far but very unsure whether they will pull through
She didn't have the herpes vaccination as she's had a litter before who were fine so never thought about the vaccine
She's so depressed in herself it's as if she knows they're not well
It's so awful especially as they're getting older it's even more heartbreaking

You should always always always have the CHV vaccine.  It is an insignificant thing to do, with potentially huge costs if not done - it's a no brainer. 

Having had a successful litter before has no bearing on whether CHV will affect a future litter.

Hang on in there GFL6630. It's all you can do. We all have everything crossed for you and the puppies.

I have the chv now but lost an entire litter once to it before I had ever even heard of it.
It is a dreadful thing to happen and I hope your remaining puppies pull through.

Feel very sad for you reading this post. I hope you have managed to pull the remaining 3 through and your girl has rallied a little from her losses, and that you can update us in due course. How absolutely heart breaking for you. Some lessons are so painfully taught.

Facebook reply:

Marilyn Anne Evill says:  You need to increase the heat to at least 80 degrees F.

Check its not haemophilia. I had a nightmare with my first bitch who had haemophilia. The breeder before lost 5 pups and didn't tell me and the kennel club didn't even chuck her off post-reporting. Its a hereditary condition and they don't test for it either. With so many deaths i'd check it out properly. If u breed from her again it may happen again

You had/have a bitch with Haemophillia??? This means that she received a copy of the defective gene from both parents & if course that her father also had Haemophillia. A very rare occurance especially in a breed not known for having the condition.

Presumably the bitch had severe blood loss during the whelping I am surprised she survived to even partially rear her puppies. The puppies that died were all male I presume unless you too used a haemophilliac stud, which would mean the whole litter would be affected haemophillia.

Far more common in Dobermanns & GSDs where haemophilliac females are exceptionally rare

To original poster-5 pups have died in ur litter . How can u consciously sell the rest and think of breeding from ur dog again without testing and getting to the cause of their deaths !! What if its genetic or rest of pups die?? How can ,5th gen breeders and kc get away with pretending they r they only ones allowed to breed and doing the best for the breed when serious sex linked and genetic conditions causing death to puppies and dogs in later life are not tested for. Esp. Ur example in not getting to the cause of half a litter dying. And kennel clubs eg of not testing for sex linked conditions or publishing known dogs results and striking out individual breeders once known. The. Kc only test for environmental conditions. 

Its so important in knowing ur stud dog as an affected sire is the cause of all bitches in a first litter to be carriers and no deaths to be seen till a carrier bitch is bred. This is why pimping to stud dogs I have learned through researching canine genetic conditions may not be best practice ...it is actually definitely worse. This condition may have not existed 5 yrs ago in the breed but kc have not been instituted that long and studs were not popular or used that werent within lines and seems more trustworthy . First dog with haemophilia sired 80 litters before being discovered

I had a litter of 8-4 boys and 2 died. One dog died at 7 weeks and the vets said it was just a one off. And then another male died at 8 months and his owners had to send off his blood test results to america for testing as nothing came up here and they said it was so rare in the breed but conclusion america came up with was haemophilia a-a condition known to only affect males. They said bitch was carrier. I contacted the breeder who said she knew about it and all males died in her litter but she sold the remaining pups anyway w/o warning

I had kept a daughter from my first litter I intended to outcross so at 8 months got her tested for carrier status and vets said she was not a carrier. When I did stud her after confirming she was not a carrier one dog died out of 4 males from her litter.

I can't get her spayed because on retesting   (even though bitches in this disease can only be carriers) -vets said she was affected and would bleed out.Luckily I found chemical castration. But I don't see how  this genetic disease- thats too rare in the UK and in this breed is unheard off is right diagnosis... And if haemophilia a-can't affect girls I am wondering if vets got it right? Wouldnt it be more textbook vwd.(von wille brands disease). Or if it is-shouldnt we question how these genetic disorders that link generationally and cause death are suddenly being propagated as new and viral deadly breeds In our kc not pdgr pups.

I know her father is definitely not affected as since I have got got a new bitch which all healthy pups. I know my male. Do u know urs?

So you are now back tracking & your bitch didn't have this condition but was/is a carrier, but then is now affected, so how come she didn't bleed out whilst whelping ??? Why didn't YOU test for carrier status BEFORE YOU bred from her ????? You have been quick to comdemn others yet YOU did not test for ALL known genetic conditions for which there is a test ??
I do not & never have bred a litter, but have many friends who do & they all test for everything there is a test for in their breed plus conditions that can be tested for for all breeds.
Fading puppy syndrome does exist & is nothing to do with haemophilia. A friend lost half of a litter of 10, 1 dog & 4 bitches, an autopsy done on every puppy revealed nothing, no virus, no bacteria, no internal bleeding. So how do you explain that ?
Just because a bitch loses puppies to FPS doesn't mean that it will happen again & as it happens my friends bitch subsequently reared a whole litter of 9 puppies two years later, 4 of the puppies going on to produce healthy offspring themselves(the others were not bred from)They are quite a rare breed here in the UK(& everywhere else)so every puppy is important.
Your attitude of blaming everyone & yet not doing the full range of available tests yourself shows speaks volumes

Environmental tests ????? Really for BCs CEA/CL/TNS are NOT "environmental" they are genetic & are part & parcel of KC tests

BTW you cannot castrate a bitch chemically or cinically

I did . The vets said Not a carrier. They must have tested wrong. At a report of one puppy dying I did the responsible thing and stopped breeding her.it seems alot of posts would rather risk a bitch who has lost half or more of her puppies or in one case 17 pups in 2 litters without knowing or questioning health of their bitch. Maybe these sex linked conditions with serious genetic deadly effects are more widespread than thought with ppl sweeping under rug those dead pups that prove their bitch is a known carrier  . Since most ppl don't breed chances r it will hopefully stay shtum.

As to those who have had pups die pls tell me:
If however u r to sell pups from that litter or subsequent litters do u mention ur bitches  track record? Let buyers decide for themselves to take on risk.

If not- since ur sweeping puppies in ur litter who have died under the rug and not telling buyers ...if a buyer a dog died that was young suddenly  or a vet diagnosed a genetic condition to ur lines would u disclose it.or protect ur economy over buyers rights.

If U sell puppies knowingly that no one buy knowing the history of the litter it came from....how can we trust said breeder would disclose anything that came to light about dogs they'vesold.

once I knew what my breeder had sold me knowing how many puppies had died in her litter which she did not disclose in the sale I was furious. But at least with that many dying she knew something serious was wrong with her bitch and got to the bottom of it. 5 dogs dying ...17dogs dying!!! .

R u offering full disclosure about litters health or kc status of hip and eye scores and hiding dead puppies since no one would buy a litter where so many have died knowingly . I cant believe how many of u call it fading pup syndrome. Y r so many of the pups fading? And to 17 pups in 2 litters-that definitely points to a genetic link. It has to be something to do wi th ur mum!? If not y? Find out even if it isnt sou can prevent it ever happening again. No matter what that's more pups that I can bear dying.

A lot of puppies dying in a litter in the vast majority of cases has nothing to do with the bitch and her health and is mostly down to CHV in Europe and also (in US) brucellosis - and/or things like exposure to pesticides in utero or other environmental toxins.

Honestly, some people will say anything to justify what they do

So YOUR vet did the DNA test ?? Really ?? No vet I know of do DNA testing themselves as ALL DNA are licensed to the company that the hold the rights to the tests like Opigen & all samples are sent to testing Labs & not done by GP vets in house. But your vets did this testing for you before you bred for your bitch then & gave you written evidence your bitch was normal for haemophilia?
I know with GSDs that all tested dogs owners are sent a certificate/letter for the result. The owners are not just told your dog is normal, carrier or affected. Just as all tested BCs get a written result.

For KC dogs HD/ED/DNA results etc are recorded & accessible on their website via MYKC so can be checked before puppies are bought. Like all goods that are sold as seen Caveat emptor applies. You cannot guarantee perfect hips/elbows even from parents with perfect hips & elbows, but proven DNA tests are just that proof that the patents do not have the condition, cannot produce offspring with it etc dependant on the DNA status of course

Environmental factors are not dna or genetic. Hips and eyes are environmental. Y else do eyes get tested every 12 months . Once cleared should be clear. And hips are in 5th generation puppy care guides.. don't take them down the stairs, no of minutes to walk them, no running, low protein food- a massive list of care not to avoid hip problems. And  test for hips can be high because of injury.

Technically if I got my puppy from u and u have endorsements and are a 5th generation pedigree from health tested lines and the hip test comes out too high for u to lift breeding restrictions, since my puppy was strictly from ur lines, if ur saying hips r dna/genetic there is a fault in ur lines directly related to puppys hip scores u bred.

Hips and eyes are not genetic. Sex linked diseases are and the kennel club have a duty to protect against reproducing. But I later found out the kennel club had results from the breeder that sold me this dog that they would not publish since the breeder didn't want it.
I paid for a kennel club puppy. I expect tests given to the kennel club over the head of the breeder since a vet thought it was so serious to be published. The major genetic conditions are life threatening and fatal...not artheritis. I have read textbooks on genetic diseases of dogs after finding out my puppies died ..I had to learn what to look for in choosing another bitch and eliminate the bitch I had reared for 2 years . I did it because I cared about dead puppies. I ddid it out n of respect for my puppy buyers so they wouldn't get dead dogs. Not a single dog has died in my litters since

If more than 5 dogs die in a litter don't u not n want to see it repeated. Isn't ethics to be upfront about litter mortality. The kennel club charges puppy buyers but protects breeders who care more about 'm oney and lessening competition as the least they could do was record puppy mortality. Buyers have a right to know.

Pls tell me if u say breeding restrictions and health tested pedigrees are to prevent genetic diseases then how can a puppy from ur litter have a genetic disease: aka hereditary aka traced back to ur pedigree of which ur lines have been tested clear. If I buy a puppy from u it doesnt need tests. Their parents guarantee it.

eyes are environmental

Really PRA, GPRA, etc are environmental ????? That is contrary to scientific FACTS.

Why are companies like OPTIGEN offering DNA tests ???? Can you direct me to the research that proves that eye conditions are NOT genetic

Sadly not all issues have simple or known mode of inheritance. 

Hip Dysplasia is considered to be Polygenetic, but around 30% Genetic, whereas Elbow Dysplasia seems to have a much higher genetic influence.

Regarding Annual eye exams, few Eye diseases are Congenital (present at birth), so clinical exam tells you they are clear at the time.  Only those eye diseases with a known causal gene can give you a once and for all clear result.  GPRA was considered and listed in the Clinical exam as one disease, yet has been found to be caused by different genes in different breeds, some specific to one or two breeds and other forms common across different breeds, some breeds even having several genetic forms.

As for Endorsements, these are placed to hopefully protect ones breeding lines from exploitation and irresponsible breeding practices. 

If I do things properly with the best outcome for my puppies, their owners and the breed being my aim, then I expect anyone who buys a pup of mine and intends to breed to do the same, with my help and guidance if they are not as knowledgeable.  We all need mentors when we first start.

> Far more common in Dobermanns & GSDs where haemophilliac females are exceptionally rare

I wasn't aware of haemophilia in Dobes? I know Vonwillebrands Type1 is very common, and fortunately there is a DNA test which should mean responsible breeders are no longer producing affected pups.

There is of course a haemophilia DNA test too.

The vast majority of Beagle exhibitors DNA do screen for Factor VII deficiency - also certain other conditions. I do not breed, but my girl's certificates were issued by The University of California, Davis. All DNA results, Clear, Carrier and Affected are freely downloadable via the KC website. Everything open, no secrecy, but this breed has very good Breed Clubs and an excellent Health Co-ordinator.
I wonder if this poster is the member of a Breed Club, - perhaps the first place to raise any health issues, and maybe the best place to locate a much needed breed mentor.

Facebook reply:

Vanessa Wegmann says:  increase the heat and give them a bit extra milk (of a good puppy weaning formula) with a syringe every 2 to 3 hours to supplement mums milk. Put hot waterbottles with covers on in their beds if you havent got a heat pad