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Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Older dog attacking puppy
- By Katiespick [gb] Date 16.10.17 17:10 UTC
Hi all I hope you can give me some advise. So here it goes. My eldest dog Oscar a springer spaniel passed away in June this year at a good age of 14, leaving my other two dogs behind. Jerry a springer of 9 years old and Wilson a shar pei x American bulldog aged 8. All of them have been castraited. Jerry is the submissive dog, Oscar wouldn't put up with undesired behaviour but wouldn't start anything. Wilson when he was a pup was always the peace maker whilst on walks but that changed when he was castratied. As soon as he came out into the vets reception he went for another dog which he had never done. I'm thinking this is because my ex let the vet muzzle him when there really wasn't any need while they injected him. He was casterated at 1year old. So  last week I brought a pup home, a male shar pei. I introduced him slowly. First giving my older dogs a blanket which I had rubbed on the pup to smell him and then letting them see him in the back garden. I then introduced him in the house. Wilson the shar pei cross was following him around and salvating quite a bit which he never normally does. With in a week Wilson has attacked him 3 times. The first time I didn't see. The second time the pup was running round whilst Wilson had a bone and went a little to close and bit him. After that the pup stayed well away. The last time was after tea. The pup eats in his cage, they had all finished eating and the pup walked infront on Wilson and he bit again. He has drawn blood but the cuts are only small, when first introduced the pup would jump at Wilson and the pup did nip his lip causing him To bleed but Wilson did nothing at this time.  So going forwards is not sure what to do. Reprimand Wilson, toughen up with him a bit. I have tried giving them equal amount of my time. I have praised Wilson when the pup has passed him and he has ignored it. I have been firm and removed Wilson from the room when he has bit. The time after the bone, I told Wilson off by saying no and he very slightly curled his lip to me, which has now made me untrusting of him. Does he think he is above me? What other steps can I take? I don't want to make it worse. And I don't want my pup to be damaged by this experience. The pup is 8 weeks and can't go for walks as of yet. I work for guide dogs and have experience in training but not aggressive behaviour like this. Please help. I never leave them alone together now and make sure Wilson has a place he can get away from the pup too. Thanks for reading
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 17.10.17 12:42 UTC Edited 17.10.17 12:44 UTC Upvotes 1
First of all I have to ask why you thought to bring in another male.   Castration really only prevents unwanted litters of puppies, the 'spirit' is still there.  

Secondly once we had numbers I'm afraid only very occasionally did they have bones and then only if they could have them in separate parts of the garden - outside.   I had to be aware of what was going on - and prevent 'bone-swapping' which they would do, if allowed.   And once the bones got small, I picked them up.   So now you know bones = trouble, I assume you'll have to do the same.

I do have a breed that should be able to live together (the pack thing) but we did have one situation where one I'd kept from an all-male litter started to fight with his uncle, when he reached around 18 months.  This was clearly a top dog thing although the youngster hadn't been used at stud.   His uncle had, but he didn't start the fights (as far as I could see, body language means I could have missed an evil eye going on!).   I tried all I could to prevent these fights which were getting increasingly more serious (blood) but in the end I had to admit defeat and for the sake of peace in the pack, homed the young boy.   Peace returned!

I'm afraid if you can't anticipate problems, and who needs to live on the edge of a seat all the time, or have to separate them all the time, you may have to return the last in.   Sadly.

Oh and personally I'd not reprimand Wilson - he could well turn round and attack the puppy if you try that!
- By Goldmali Date 17.10.17 14:39 UTC Upvotes 6
Does he think he is above me?

No -dogs don't think like that, the dominance/pack theory is outdated and has long been disproved.

Male dogs very seldom like puppies. Certain breeds are even less likely to accept them. Personally I would have gone for a bitch pup for sure, but even that might not have been straight forward.

Earlier this year I had a litter of pups where a bitch was going to a home that already had a male of the same breed. Experienced owner, high drive breed. The buyer came to visit the pup several times. On the day of collection she brought her adult male to introduce him to the pup on neutral territory. He went straight for the pup - I've never seen anything like it. She muzzled the dog and he still attacked the pup the second he had a chance. Had this been anybody else, I'd have sent them home without a pup. As it happened I had known this person a few years and trusted her. Before she even left here she was on the phone to several dog trainers/behaviourists (one of which is a friend and puppy buyer of mine). They told her it could be done so I agreed to let her give it a go -on the condition she did not take any risks so that my pup got hurt.

In a nutshell, for the first few weeks she didn't let the dogs near each other without one being caged. It was all totally reward based (food, not just praise), with the male being rewarded when he spotted the pup and did NOT try to get to her, whether he was inside or outside a cage. Eventually she and her husband started walking the dogs together, one each, side by side but not close together, then getting closer and closer. It took some time, months, but today these two dogs play together and are very good friends. But they have an owner who is home with them all the time and who was determined to not give up.

If you're going to keep this pup, you must separate them and put in a lot of hard work, slowly.
- By Nikita [gb] Date 18.10.17 08:50 UTC Upvotes 2

> Oh and personally I'd not reprimand Wilson - he could well turn round and attack the puppy if you try that!


Yes!  Or indeed you.  He's not happy with pup and being reprimanded only adds to the stress of that and it could go either way (or both).  Pup is the focus of his stress so is the first likely target.  It also isn't helpful for what you're trying to acheive, as you want Wilson to view the pup in a positive way, not as the predictor of a telling-off.

Goldmali's post is excellent and I would definitely use more than just praise to reward.  It is rarely motivating enough in a day-to-day situation, without the massive stress currently going on - you need something more valuable and food is by far the most effective.  Anything - literally anything - that is not eyeballing or going for pup is rewardable and should be rewarded.  Train a marker word or use a clicker too if possible, to really precisely mark the good behaviour and then give the reward.
Topic Dog Boards / Behaviour / Older dog attacking puppy

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