On friday someone came to visit my stud dog( a well proven boy doing well in the showring).he knows his job well,has never failed and knows when the girls are ready..well he usually does! when she arrived he was most definately trying but didnt achieve a tie so i thought..too early.she came back the next day,same behaviour,definately trying no tie then he gave up so i suggested i keep her for teh rest of the day but the second she came in to the house he didnt want to know her.Her owner returned to pick her up and next morning arrived with her,same behaviour so i kept her for the night( that was last night) he hasnt looked at her since,i have never seen him act like this.I would usually say it was simply that she was too early but why try like mad to begin with,usually he just wont try until she is ready.Im asking the owners to pick her up today..any ideas..or tips? x

If he penetrated at all, she could still be pregnant.   Much as breeders prefer to have a tie, slip mating can be successful.    How was the bitch towards him?  Was this her first attempt at a mating - if not, what happened last time?  For me that's a big indication of the situation.    She might have gone over by the time she was brought in, or be a late one.   It might have been worth keep her until she was out of season if the owner agreed.    On the other hand, apart from not smelling the right smell (!) as with some stud dogs, if he did penetrate her, without a tie, maybe he knows (via her then smell) she was safely mated!    I have known males who have had a successful mating the one time, not be interested when the bitch comes back for a second mating.

I also had a male who definitely preferred bicolour bitches, despite being a dark tricolour himself!!

ps    If she hadn't been mated before, perhaps he was physically unable to 'get through'?

she is a maiden,wasnt acting as flirty as i wouldve liked but i put that down to being a maiden.the owner didnt blood test and im thinking she might be too early,only 7 days since they noticed blood spots but insist she is most likely further on but im thinking she isnt x

Obviously some can be mated early but if only on day 7, yes possibly too early...if your stud is experienced, he is telling you it isn't the right time.
My last 2 recent & successful litters the bitches were mated day 15 if that helps 

Thats what i thought but cant understand that while the girls owners were here,he almost did the deed and was definately interested,he then gitvtired and when she came in our house wasnt interested and he repeated that process the following day x

I'd say she is too early. He was trying like mad to begin with because that's what dogs do when they meet a girl with some smell to her. Once the first excitement was over however, he knew she wasn't ready, and he was not interested anymore.

When a bitch is ready the experienced stud literally wants to get to her or slash his wrists.

yes thats what he is usually like which has confused me.She is coming back tommorrow so will see what happens x

Can they no do a progesterone test done where they get the results the same day and then you will both know where she is at

I did ask but theyre not going to bother which is a bit of a pain but i cant force them to do one so it looks like a long week ahead for me lol x

Agree fully with monkeyj and have seen it a few times. Dog gets interested when first presented with a bitch and may even mate. Then leaves it several days as the bitch isn't ready.

Thanks will keep you all updated x

A real pain and some stud owners stipulate this must be done as they don't have all week to be free to be available to keep trying. Makes no sense to waste all that fuel and time on both sides when a simple test would give answers..

Today was another fail.He was interested but not to the point where he was going carzy for her,he was mounting,hitting the spot but getting nowhere so i definately think she simply isnt ready yet x

>I did ask but theyre not going to bother which is a bit of a pain but i cant force them to do one so it looks like a long week ahead for me lol x

Well, you can (force them), really - many stud owners in my breed refuse to mate a bitch if she's not progesterone tested.  Some for all bitches, others only if she is a maiden.

> Today was another fail.

Why not wait until day 12 before trying again? This will save your energy & both the dogs energy & failing...you have trusted your male before, trust him again. Quite often when wanting more than one mating it can be good to leave a days gap ie day 12 then 14 or 13 & 15.

Yes ive told them to wait until wednesday and try again x

Sorry for the late update..i got the strangest call tonight form the owner of the girl my boy didnt mate saying he is sure she is pregnant.i told him she must be having a phantom and he said that he has read up about phantoms and he doesnt seem t think it is( although i have explained they can be very similar to the real thing.He said her tummy is firmer,she is suddenly eating really well having been a picky eater and her teats are bigger and pinker.the only time he got anywhere close to a tie was a couple of times he definately hit the spot cos she squealed but no tie was achieved,surely he cant have sired a litter after doing just that? x

> the only time he got anywhere close to a tie was a couple of times he definately hit the spot cos she squealed but no tie was achieved,surely he cant have sired a litter after doing just that? x

You do not need a tie for a bitch to get pregnant.

It could also be a phantom....how long ago did she get 'mated'?

I know you can get slip matings but this was seriously quick..a couple of times thats about it..yesi suggested a phantom to her owners too,its been about 45 days i think x

> I know you can get slip matings but this was seriously quick..a couple of times thats about it..yesi suggested a phantom to her owners too,its been about 45 days i think x

If it were me & as she is either showing signs of pregnancy or going through a phantom, I would have her scanned. I would do this as there would be things I would do if she had a phantom that I wouldn't if she wasn't in whelp....

They are definately getting her scanned and said they would let me know but im thinking phantom x

Although breeders prefer to see a tie, I can tell you provided the dog penetrates, a slip tie is all that's needed.   One of my boys never achieved a tie, but from the few (comparatively) bitches I let him mate, he only missed to one.  She came back to my other male on her next season - had a tie and missed again.   I heard they took her to another stud dog, with no success either.   So in her case, his 'miss' wasn't down to him only managing a slip tie.

In this case, much as I don't bother with scans (preferring to wait until she's gone full term and if nothing happens, have  an x-ray done to confirm she's empty), if they have a need to know ahead of time, have a scan done.   By 7 weeks however, if she is pregnant, they should see the puppies moving around.

> By 7 weeks however, if she is pregnant, they should see the puppies moving around.

This can be breed dependent.

I have had bitches with a decent litter hardly showing at all to a casual observer at 7 weeks and rarely see any puppy movement.

With such brief contact (I have been told that a slip needs to be for about 30 seconds at least) I would wonder if there is any chance she could have been mated by another dog during the season?

Do the owners own a male?

No they only have girls and she hasnt been around another male.I sat and had a good think about the times she was here and there was one time i actually thought he was achieving a tie,doing the little dance but she wasnt making a sound and when he hopped off i thought he mustve aimed wrong and thats why he hadnt tied and also why she hadnt made any noise but now im wondering if he was actually in the right place but just didnt tie?

The stair climbing would indicate penetration for me.