Hi everyone

My hound breed bitch is on around day 57. She is quite easily the largest pregnant bitch I have seen and am really worried about complications; particularly about the uterus rupturing. When I had her initially checked, the vet said her size was normal!
We had a very scary panic last night when she has some foul smelling pus around the vulva. We rushed her straight to the vets and spent an agonising 5 hours having every test imaginable. Thankfully the vet instead of whipping her in for a c-section immediately thinking it was pyometre, gave her a scan and took some blood tests. No pus in the uterus and puppies visable.  The vet advised we take her home and monitor. I should also say she could not believe how big she is!
Today the pus seems to have gone, as does the smell. Am I right to still be worried there might be a uterus problem? I keep reading horror stories and was wondering if anyone has any real life experience with dogs that appear too pregnant (if that makes any kind of sense).

For info on what stage shes at: Her temp dropped to 36.7 and has been there since 12:00 today. She's digging (but she's always digging) and heavy breathing but no other signs as yet. We're currently cuddled up in bed. I'm so worried I can't even think about sleep.

Any help most appreciated. x

Hope you managed to get some sleep.

Have the puppies been born?

I can only comment as follows:  Day 57 in my breed is very early.  But a temperature of 36'7° is a SURE sign that the birth process is starting.  Based on my experience with my own breed, I would be expecting the birth within 24 hours of the drop to that very low level.

Are you sure it was pus you observed?  A female with such a distended belly will discharge a lot of sticky stuff, which "could" get smelly if mixed with other stuff, such as garden dirt or poop or pee.  Also, in the case of an infection, I believe it would be correct to assume that she would be running a fever, would it not?  Her general condition would be one of illness.  In other words, she'd be feeling rotten.

The size of the belly does not always indicate the size of the litter.  Do you know how many puppies you are expecting?  Was an ex-ray done to count them?  What would concern me about an overly-distended belly would be the possibility of inertia.  I've experienced this a few times.  But I've also experienced incredible bellies and no inertia at all!

What we do here in Switzerland is to keep track of the heartbeat rates of the puppies with ultrasound.  As long as the puppies are OK, you can wait.  It's walking a tightrope, that's for sure.  I've been through it so many times...  I've never had a uterus rupture, however, if that is any comfort.  In fact, in nearly all cases, it has all turned out just fine, either with a c-section or a normal or assisted (oxytocin) birth.

Thank you Niue

We've been up pretty much all night with her not being able to get comfortable. She's been getting angry with her water and food bowls, but now it's morning has fallen fast asleep! So... no puppies as yet.

She did have an ultrasound at the vet, but they wouldn't xray her. Heart beats were apparently ok, but I have noticed a difference in the way the puppies are moving. As she is so large you could see legs etc kicking out of her and you could feel them very easily in her tummy. Now they're more of a faint flutter which is worrying me.

My breed tend to deliver early, but 57 does feel too early. It could have been day 54-56 when I took her in which is why a c-section would have been devastated.  The vet was definitely worried. She talked immediately about surgery and got another vet ... who looked equally worried. Her bloods and temp were fine so no problems there, but there do seem to be cases where no outward signs showed until it was too late. I'm naturally a worrier  (as you can probably tell!)

I'll keep you updated on our progress :)

Tara & Beryl

Yes, please, I would very much like to know what happens.  If the puppies are not moving as much as before, this could be because they are "getting in line" for the birth.  Maybe her belly now feels like it contains stones instead of puppies?
I'm a great worrier (that's "worrier", not "warrior"!) too, so I know where you are coming from!

Pups are certainly viable,  and a friends litter of a related breed was born a week early on day 56.

I have had an over stretched uterus in my medium size breed that did lead to secondary inertia,  slow whelping and the still birth of 4 of the. 11 puppies due to more than 3 hour delay between 1st and subsequent pups (emergency vet would not administer oxyticin until more than 3 hours passed).  She also retained last pup for a day and a half after they said she was empty.

Just to say early on in my 'whelping experience', I noticed the puppies tended not to be anywhere as active a few days before whelping and of course, panicked!   Fact is they are lining up to come through and into the world and perhaps 'gaining strength' for the big journey

Try not to stress, but frankly I'd get her in for a Section sooner rather than later just in case.   I get to the last days and always think why have I done this to you!!!   But once the puppies have arrived, that feeling all goes.   Try to get as much shut-eye as you can now ....... !!

Thank you so much for the replies :)
I'm hoping the lack of movement is just the pups lining up. I need to get this glass half full!

Going by her first scan at 30 days there may be 6 pups in there. People swear by the lady who scanned her so let's hope she's right and they all just pop out like a string of sausages!

Can I ask what happened when you had uterus problems? Were there obvious symptoms? What was the outcome?

I'll be honest, we've only ever had working dogs before and they don't seem to have half these issues! One day they're thin, the next they're slightly plump, next thing you know there are puppies!

If I can work out how to post a photo I'll show you her in her normal state and as she is now.

x

Thought I'd give you a little bit of an update...

Her temprature has risen to 37, after being 36.7 since yesterday lunch time.

She's breathing quite heavily. It sounds a bit like sawing Wood. She's very lethargic.

She worryingly hasn't eaten anything since yesterday morning other than a little bit of fillet steak last night. I'm going to cook her some chicken and see if she eats that.

She refuses to get in her whelping box but instead keeps dragging the blankets etc to the middle of the kitchen floor where she lays down and looks at me indignantly.

It also looks like her milks coming in....

Might take her for a little walk round the garden x

I'd call the vet again.  As Mamabas says:  Better too soon than too late.  The "sawing wood" and the "lethargy" would concern me.  I know you are concerned.  Stay in very close contact with your vet!

Well we've just got back from the vets. She's had another scan and some more blood tests. She's slightly dehydrated and her blood is going to the puppies rather than to support her. Puppy heartbeats are fine and nk sign of stress. This vet reckons there could be quite a few more than 6 in there! The vet said to keep them updated on progress and to come back if she hasn't delivered in 24 hours.

Keep yours fingers crossed. I just want to meet the little monsters now! x

I'm no expert, but the lethargy would probably have me calling the vet, if not insisting on going straight down there.

If she's stuffed full of puppies right now, being lethargic wouldn't worry me at all.    She's hardly going to be belting around and shouldn't.

Oh and leave her milk bar alone.   In other words, don't 'milk' her.    Once the puppies start to arrive, and begin nursing, her milk will come in in a supply the newborn puppies can cope with!   Too much stimulation and they may not and she could run into mastitis.   Newborn puppies don't need lashings of milk.    It's into the 2nd week when milk production should peak.

> Well we've just got back from the vets. She's had another scan

Ridiculous - why the hell doesn't your vet x-ray?  There is no reason not to - I've had mine x-rayed prior to whelping and you can see immediately if there are any malpresentations, you can see the exact number of pups, and you can see if the pups are too big and this gives you the chance to "get in there" and get those pups out instead of waiting and losing whelps.

Have to say - I would have demanded an x-ray.

I don't know if it's a location thing or what. But I've called 7 different vets and none of them will x-ray a pregnant bitch. They all say that new research shows that there is an increased risk of cancer and so as a practice they won't do it unless it is a medical emergency.
I know 100s of breeders do to ensure the safety of both their dog and the puppies and not being an expert, a quick Google doesn't show that this view is shared in the medical community. I often feel really powerless with vets, I don't think they understand that you know your dog and that you're not crazy!

> I often feel really powerless with vets, I don't think they understand that you know your dog and that you're not crazy!

I understand what you're saying.  Many years ago I believed that vets knew it all, and would never question them.  BUT - as you so rightly point out, we just know our dogs.  And it's fair to say that vets are used to doing C-sections, meaning a problem is already taking place.  What they don't know, is what is normal for your bitch. 

It took years before I became insistent.  And a few more years before I became demanding.  Now I get my own way because it's me who is paying.  They may not like it, but I'm not interested in them liking me, only interested in my dogs getting speedy treatment.  To be fair, I've never owned a bitch who was x-rayed, go on to get cancer.  And my girls stay with me for life.  I recently experienced my first bitch with cancer, she is spayed and has never had a litter, or an x-ray.

Jean I might take you with me next time!

From what I've read I don't feel there is a link. I wpild never put my dog through something i thought might harm them. My view is if the risk is extremely small and unproven then surely that's better than the risk of your dog or pups dying now?

luckily Beryl seems to have completely perked up since her visit. I'm starting to think she enjoys the car ride!

I hope your girl with cancer is ok. It must be a very upsetting thing for you x

Me too have had bitches x-rayed when pregnant, but not until towards the end of their pregnancy - ie just before whelping to see the position and size of the puppies.  It's way more accurate than scanning, for starters.   I have lost bitches, and dogs, to cancer but only a very few were x-rayed during their lives.

I think maybe things could be starting. She's panting a bit (normally this time) and her bed and tail are slightly wet. We just went for a walk round the garden and she had a small runny poo (sorry too much information!) Then stood there looking at her bum for ages... but she didn't push.
Something is definitely happening!
Keep your fingers crossed for us! x

are they saying x-raying while pregnant increases the risk of cancer or that x-raying full stop increases the risk ?
We know and have done for years that any x-ray Carries that risk albeit small . same in humans

Apologies for the delay in updating everyone it's been a dramatic few hours.

Out of nowhere a sac appeared! It's stayed there for a long time so naturally started to panic. On the way to vets she had her first puppy, a little girl. Just over an hour passed and she gave birth to 6 more approximately every 15 minutes.

The 5th pup, who I've decided to call Johnny 5, was born and straight away just didn't act like the other puppies. He was gasping for air and weak. I cleared his airways and rubbed him vigorously. Luckily my mum and friend were on hand to take him to the vets. The vet said his airways were clear so he'd either got a defect and therefore not make it, or he was just a slow one and would pull through. So I've bought him home and am trying to make him as comfortable as possible.

He was born after 4 pups followed by their placentas. Then a smaller, not so fresh looking placenta emerged, followed by him, followed by another placenta. No placenta came after the last puppy which I am slightly concerned about. Particularly as she chewed through the cord while it was attached (inside her). I'll keep an eye on her & make sure there isn't one retained.

Mum is tired but im so proud of her. She's done amazingly well!

Thank you everyone for your support x

>Out of nowhere a sac appeared!

I'm so glad to hear it went as well as it did, considering the confusing lead-up to the actual birth.  But I wouldn't say that sac was "out of nowhere", because you had said that Mum was wet and so was the bed, which led me to assume that the water had broken.  In any case,  every birth is different no matter how long you've been doing it!  Congratulations to you for hanging in there with the greatest of care and love!  You will relish the relief now and enjoy looking at the new little ones.  Hope number 5 makes it.

Congratulations!  One every 15 minutes is impressive.  I hope Johnny 5 is doing ok, keep him warm and plugged on to a teat as much as possible and hopefully all will be well.

One every 15 minutes sounds like a Jackie whelping!   When I was working on a Boarding Kennel for a couple of years, they bred Jackies and I was amazed when, with the first litter I saw while there, mum popped her pups like shelling peas.   Compared with a Basset whelping 

Hope the little boy makes it.   And yes, the 'wetness' you saw would have been her waters breaking, most probably, and for sure a car trip often does get things moving!

So 7 puppies eh? Nice.

Morning everyone (is it morning? Time doesn't seem to mean anything at the moment!)

Mum and puppies did well through the night. Beryls temp is a little high 39.1 but I guess that's to be expected. A little panting but nothing again to be worried about. Puppies are scrapping for available teats and all seem surprisingly strong.

unfortunately little number 5 passed away at around 1am. There was nothing the vet could do, he just wasn't meant for this world.

I'm still in shock how amazingly Beryl has managed. There were 2 breach births, one of which almost seemed to be folded in half. It worried me at the time, and she'd done it before I'd worked out what was going on, but I think she knew what she was doing, she turned round and pulled it out with her mouth as pushed.

Let's just hope they're all out and that that strange placenta belonged to little number 5.

:) x

Cingratulations - sounds like you're going to have a busy Christmas.

The state of the Placenta probably meant it had failed prematurely and he wasn't getting the nutrients/oxygen he needed right at the end.

Sorry you lost the little boy.  Time to enjoy the others now. Xx

Only just logged in to catch up.  I missed the excitement!! 

Congratulations.

Yes, I think Brainless is right, poor little no 5 had got detached or partially detached from his placenta. Glad the other 6 are healthy though, have a great (and busy!) Christmas!

Did you have your vet give your bitch a shot to clear out any retained birthing matter?    It's worth having done to prevent infection setting in.

The vet called me yesterday (she's absolutely lovely) I explained everything that happened and she said that she would leave her as the births came so quickly in succession and there were 7 placentas: 7 puppies.

Beryls temp is at a consistent 38.8 now. She's eating, well a lot and taking great care of the pups. She doesn't stop! I'm going to keep a very close eye... and probably panic myself to death at every move! Other than raised temp, sickness, diarrhoea, disinterest in anything, is there anything else I should look out for?

In a strange turn of events the vet also wants one of the puppies! 4 were pre-reserved to great homes so I'm relieved a 5th will be going somewhere great too! She's hopefully going to keep popping in to check on everything ... couldn't ask for better really!