We have a new addition to our family, who was vaccinated 2 weeks ago with the new Novibac 4...the vet said she will need the second part of the vaccine after 4 weeks then a week after that she can go out.

5 weeks in total until she can go out and about...how can I socialise her in the mean time?

She's far too big to carry, but has been out in the car to supermarkets and waited in the car with the boot up.

Has anyone got any ideas?

We're using the 'home time' to train the basics but it just seems such a long time until she can go out and about....

I thought it was not after but within 4 weeks? I need to double check his card to be absolutely sure it's the same vaccine though.

Anyway I took mine out in a pram so he wasn't on the ground. I also took him out in a baby sling on my front but found him to heavy and too warm to do that often.

We did lots of car trips too, and lots of sitting in places with the boot up. And I invited a friend with a fully vaccinated dog to visit a few times so he could play with other dogs.

That's a far longer interval between the two sets of shots than I've ever known.    Mine were usually vaccinated at any time from 8 weeks of age, and then 2 weeks later.   And then I'd wait another week before taking them out and about.   But times and ideas change!!   But THAT much?

Mine (those we bred were given their first vac. at 10 weeks) were quite happy to be running around at home without needing to be taken out, but if we did, it would be in the car only, bearing in mind however, that puppies need to empty - lots!!

The litter we have just had have to wait 4 weeks too before having their second shot - and then have to wait a week after than before hitting the ground. That's with Novibac too!

I agree it seems stilly long now, as in the pay pups were vaccinated in their 8th week, bad two weeks being carried then the 2nd vac.

The vaccination is called Nobivac 4 used to be Nobivac 2 the part of it that has changed is for leptospirosis  - some vets are using the Nobivac 2 as there have been a number of issues raised.
Nobivac 2 vaccination at 8 weeks, 10 weeks and on ground at 12 weeks I believe.
Canigen is another brand of vaccine (told made at same factory as Nobivac ! )used with Lepto2
I did some research last year when my girl had a litter and spoke to manufacturers as well as vets, I  believe there is lots of info on Web I spoke to several vets at different practices before making a decision.

This vaccination thing is soooo confusing. We're taking on a new puppy soon, and the breeder will be vaccinating with Novibac at eight weeks, but my vets use Versican. So I'm going to have to find a different vet that uses Novibac, or ask the breeder not to vaccinate, so I can start from scratch at my vets.

When we had our current dog, she was vaccinated with Novibac by us at eight weeks, then ten weeks, so on the ground by eleven. I insisted on this because I wanted to get her out sooner. They wanted to wait the four weeks, but I thought that too long. I did some research and found that some vets were happy with the two weeks in between, but I think it's a pretty contentious point. I checked with my vets the situation re: parvo in my area at the time, and they hadn't had many cases. Six months earlier there had been an epidemic, hence their caution.

I too used a buggy to get my pup out of the house safely; I had a baby and a toddler at the time, so had a double one. I'd kick out the toddler (who was happier to walk by that time anyway) and put puppy in. Got some funny looks from people, mind. Lol!

Check with your vet some vaccines are compatible, I was told and had info sent that stated Canigen &Nobivac 2 were compatible but not Canigen and Nobivac 4.
Think you have to gather as much information as possible and make the decision that is right for you and your pup. ☺

> some vets are using the Nobivac 2 as there have been a number of issues raised.

I've just checked to see what my current two had/are boostered with and it is Nobivac 2.   I too read about problems with N.4 so was glad to see my current vet not using it for boostering.   Mine are on a 3-yearly regime, apart from the Lepto. bit but again this has been given annually, with the N.2 version.

I guess you can only be guided by your vet who presumably you trust.   As for what to do with him in the interim - that's had and I'd not want to dal with a 4 week gap between vac. 1 and vac. 2  to be honest.

Could it be that the reason for the four week gap is in case there is still immunity from the mother if done sooner rather than the vaccinations have to be four weeks apart. This would depend on the age of the pup at first vaccination. For instance if immunity is expected to be gone by twelve weeks a puppy vaccinated at eight weeks would have to wait four weeks whereas a puppy vaccinated at ten weeks would have to only wait two. Just a thought.

No....she was 10 weeks at the first vacs so it can't be that.

As Lepto is a poor vaccine re duration of immunity, could the delay be due to better chance of it tsking, and also waiting for pups immune system to settle/ mature between jabs as Lepto has the worst history for reactons.

Myself I won't give first vaccine until 10 weeks, due to high likelihood of maternal interference.

Studies have shown even when exposed to disease challenge,  protection is provided within hours for both Parvo and Distemper,  so certainly if pups are over 10 weeks and had one vaccine then waiting for a week after second is overkill.

Unless there is a local outbreak,  socialization,  even on the ground,  can commence in low dog traffic areas.

Human infants are not vaccinated for three months,  yet are exposed to all and sundry,  breathing on and being kissed.

Also unless you yourself never go out,  sterilize your shoes etc,  your as likely,  or one of your visitors,  to bring home infection.

Far riskier in my view to complete vaccination course too early,  and have a pup with high maternal antibodies negate the vaccines,  and have no protection at all for a year until the booster.

This is exactly what happened to one of our Posters whose pup at 4 months was very I'll with Parvo.

Titre testing proved none of the vaccines had taken.

With Nobivac Lepto4 there needs to be 4 weeks before the 1st and 2nd injections (with Lepto2 the 2nd lepto injection must be between 2 and 4 weeks after the first, and the pup must be at least 10 weeks old). However many vets give the DHP and Lepto4 at 8 weeks, the 2nd DHP at 10 weeks, and the second Lepto4 at 12 weeks, and the puppy can go out and about immediately.

For the Nobivac DHP/DHPPi the data sheet says only one jab needed at 10 weeks or over and safe to go out 1 week later.
  It will be the Lepto that needs a 2nd jab 4weeks later and is a dangerous and largely ineffective jab.

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/?id=-455402

Sometimes I feel I'm really glad to be retired from all this - so many decision to be made these days from when to mate, whether to scan or not, when is the due date to now all this with vaccination.   Fact is we rarely let our puppies go to their new home before 10 weeks which is the time we had the first set of puppy shots given.   And if we did, to people we knew were experienced, and friends in which case the puppies could go home after 8 weeks if I felt the litter was advanced enough, they went with the advice that the new owners waited another couple of weeks before having the vaccination started.   I was concerned enough over a lovely couple who didn't want to do conventional vaccination and went for nosodes.

And all this on the basis that we have medical ADVANCEMENT?   

Correction!!  "As for what to do with him in the interim - that's haRd and I'd not want to dEal with a 4 week gap between vac. 1 and vac. 2  to be honest."   Apologies.   Engage brain before fingers or WITH fingers eh. 

Mine isn't a puppy but my vet suggested the new type vaccination in two parts. His had his first part and yes he has had a swelling under injection site. Next part was for 3 weeks November 17th...same price as old style vaccination re special deal with manufacturer. ...He hasn't other than the swelling had any problems

Sometimes I feel I'm really glad to be retired from all this - so many decision to be made these days

Yes, life is/was simpler when we just blindly follow/ed the vets 'instructions' - and it was' just life' and/or 'sh1t happens' but I really don't believe you've ever been like that, or you wouldn't have put so much into breeding your line, nor give us, on here, the benefit of your experience.

I sometimes find myself in a supermarket spending what seems ages choosing between brands and then realise it doesn't matter, but then again, there's so many other times it does: peanut butter for the dogs - lots have xylitol in which is toxic to dogs so I have to read the labels... 

We have moved so far away from natural breeding and rearing, and not just with animals, that we rely on doctors, vets and pharmaceuticals far too much (look at all the antibiotic resistant bugs) that immune systems are swamped and unable to cope.

Medical advancement is wonderful but, should be used with caution and education - hence the many decisions to be made.

Just been phoning round to enquire about the Novibac vaccine schedule for new puppies, and the vet I spoke to said they vaccinate at eight weeks, then at ten, so on the ground at eleven weeks. So to use American parlance; GO FIGURE!! Seems to be completely arbitrary.

Although I gave the datasheet information for Nobivac DHP/DHPPi that states a pup is covered a week after a single injection at 10 weeks, after a considerable amount of research, after reading this and before vaccinating mine, I don't actually agree with this.  

The reason for so many vaccinations is that the protection from mum's immunity can vary by many weeks.  If pup still has maternal immunity it will block any from the vaccines, so some guidelines suggest any number of 'boosters'.  You cannot boost immunity.

My preferred vaccination protocol is to give one DHP at 16 weeks, when there is no maternal immunity to interfere with the vac, and titer test 4 weeks later - though a negative titre could mean the pup is a non-responder (so no amount of 'boosters' would help) or that the pup hasn't been exposed so has no active anti-bodies in its system. This protocol should last a lifetime, especially when naturally exposed to the diseases and allowed to build up their own immunity. 

Before that, limited exposure to the outside world will help to both socialise and develop immunity already gained from mum.

It is important to know that Leptospirosis is bacterial not viral and that there are over 250 serovars - Lepto 2 covers 2, L4 covers 4.   If you are aware of signs of illness in your dog, a non-vaccinated (against Lepto) and limited vaccinated dog is more likely to recover as their immune system is likely to be stronger due to limited toxic challenges, especially if not also overloaded with chemical flea and worm treatments.

It has been shown that the majority (99%) will respond to vaccine of live modified vaccine at 12 weeks, so that is when I choose to have the second of the primary course.

A friend in Scotland chooses not to do Lepto and her pups all get a single DHPPi vaccine at 12 weeks after she questioned her vet and he did his own research.

It has been shown that the majority (99%) will respond to vaccine of live modified vaccine at 12 weeks, so that is when I choose to have the second of the primary course

The % of responders definitely increases with age of pup, to be sure a titer test after 4 weeks will confirm.

> <br />Yes, life is/was simpler when we just blindly follow/ed the vets 'instructions' - and it was' just life' and/or 'sh1t happens' but I really don't believe you've ever been like that, or you wouldn't have put so much into breeding your line, nor give us, on here, the benefit of your experience.

    I don't think I have EVER 'blindly followed the vet's instructions'  again.  And for sure if 'sh*t happened' I'd need to know why or there would be sh*t from me!!   Nevertheless, and I am aways learning, the more I think I know, the less I find I do!!

And as for human medical progress - I'm currently TOTALLY confused re my diabetes and the readings I'm getting which when I look at that I'm eating, all the time, are odd to say the least.   Given how many drugs line my breakfast table (and the repeat meds I pick up for both of us monthly) I'm more and more inclined to stop taking THE LOT

Give 'em a Bob Martins!!!