Thoughts please...

To cut a long story short, one of the puppies due to go to France is being returned as they feel she has behavioural issues where she is herding the children and barking at strangers. Last night she lunged at the elderly mother and they have decided she is too much hard work. As yet they re still in the UK and weren't planning to travel for another 2 weeks.

My contract states that we will have any pup back for any reason but does not state anything about refunding. They have paid boarding rates for me to keep the puppy through the quarantine period (£5 pd), for the vaccines and pet passport along with the cost of the puppy. As she is now nearing 5 months old, homing her will be a bit more difficult and she will not go at the price the rest of the pups sold for. I will most likely be able to get the normal rehoming fee for her. (Obviously she will stay here until we have resolved the issues - keeping her is out of the question as we kept 4 from the litter originally.)

My question is: Do I refund them? Do I give them the cost of the pup? I will not refund the boarding fees and costs of passport/vaccines at all as these would have been done by them if they had taken her at 8 weeks. Do I do a partial refund? A rehome fee is around about £200 which is far less than what I sold them for. Also bearing in mind that I am on a zero hours contract - I didn't return to work after the pups reached 8 weeks to stay home with the french pups and lost 4 weeks worth of work so am financially at more of a loss than I would normally be.

What should I do? They are dropping her back this lunchtime...

I think that you should keep her without boarding fees until she is rehomed and then send them the price you get for her, it was your choice to stay home and look after the puppies and you did charge for that time, you could have refused them as owners and homed at 8 weeks. I imagine as you kept 4 that she will be able to be integrated back into the group and looked after with them and hopefully her issues will soon be resolved and she finds a suitable home.  Maybe you should add something to your contract for future use.

My contract states that I will give a full refund if pup is returned up to 12 weeks old and then a refund of half the price up to 6 months old. For me a dog over 6 months is really classed as a rehome situation so no refund is due.

I suppose you have to ask yourself "Do you want to get this puppy back so you know where she is rehomed?"

The puppy is coming back regardless as they have screwed her up to the point where she has forgotten her manners, started herding small children and 'gone for' grandma. They know full well that simply rehoming her could have worse effects and they will end up with her being either given back or sold on. If left in this state she could do serious damage the bigger she gets and they could be held responsible for knowingly selling her this state so they KNOW she is coming back to me. They haven't asked for a refund and I am thinking to reimburse off my own back. I think I am most likely to simply give them whatever I sell her for whenever she is ready to be rehomed.

Yes it was my choice to stay home BUT as a responsible breeder, that was one of the reasons they picked me. They too, could have purchased a puppy in France and homed at 8 weeks. The original agreement was for them to collect the day after the rabies jab and live out the quarantine period here in the UK before returning to France - they then decided that work commitments couldn't be re-jigged and chose to leave her with me.

Puppies were born 15 June so are still under 6 months old but we all know that my breed is going through the awkward, ugly stage from  4 months onward and are more difficult to rehome the older they get because of the breed they are.

ETA: the 4 we kept on have been homed with their handlers and are working to become fully trained PP dogs or working with those with an SIA licence. She will be coming to live with my own 4 and this means me not going back to work after half term as planned as she also seems to have developed serious separation anxiety in the 2 weeks they have had her.

So you've cared for this pup, trained and socialised her from birth, is that right?  And the new owners have only had physical care of her for the last two weeks? In this time deciding she is basically too full on for them? Did you find her hard to handle? If so, I would give them a full refund, if not I wouldn't, you've wasted all this time and effort for a return, they would get the resale price after deducting your care of food and re-socialising costs for however long it takes.

I know my brothers second GSD was very highly strung, he was hard work for me, but he's wonderful now, I'm wondering how experienced they were to take on a nearing adolescent GSD pup?

What an awful shame for the pup more than anyone, poor girl isn't going to have a settled home for a while.

She's here and she's slipped back in as though she never left. Not rude, pushy, mouthy at all. In fact there has been A LOT of submissive weeing and mum isn't at all impressed but I do not see the 'pushy madam' that I was picturing. There is no jumping on and off furniture or climbing on to dining table etc and she has given up something she picked up in the garden back to me without so much as a grumble - forget growl.

I discussed it with the owner and I am now of the thinking that the puppy saw an empty 'alpha type' role and took it. I do not believe in the old fashioned pack theory but do feel that as a breed these dogs need a firm handler with everyone singing off the same hymn sheet. I do not believe this has happened. Husband and wife were prepared for an adolescent pup and knew what to expect but didn't factor their requirement to spend 4 weeks in the UK after collection and everyone else was expecting the fluffy eight week old teddy bear. They haven't been firm with her and she has seen an opportunity to kick off and run with it.

They already have a labradoodle back in France and although both made the effort to come and visit us and choose their pup prior to collection - the wife came over on her own this time round and leaft her with an elderly woman - pup saw the chance to act up and went for her. I have talked at length at how they need to be better prepared next time as she still wants a GSD but now feels they should have made more of an effort to collect as originally planned. I have said I would be here and happy to advise if they do choose to get another GSD but that they must allow time for the dust to settle and not contemplate another until well in to the new year.

She did not ask for any money back but I did say that she could have easily sold her on without my knowing and for that, I am happy to refund the re-sale value when we find a suitable home for her, whenever that may be. She was happy with that and signed a relinquished puppy contract and handed over all of the paperwork.

Puppy is fast asleep on the marble hearth....

Glad to hear that you have her back and maybe not as many problems as you thought, I am curious and please don't take this the wrong way it's not meant to offend you, the pups you kept are being trained as personal protection dogs is that correct. If so then do you sell as pets the puppies you don't think will make pp dogs and could they have a little bit more "working"  personalities than most families would be able to handle. It does seem as if they were not really prepared for a GSD puppy and maybe they will think much harder before getting another, 2 weeks isn't very long to settle with a puppy and I think you are correct in your assessment of the puppy not respecting her new owners. Good luck with finding her a suitable home, she would be my type if we were having another.

No offence taken at all Mixedpack. I take homing of these puppies very seriously and try to match them with the right families. There is a comprehensive questionnaire and a lot of question asking before they even manage to get through the door for a meet and greet with the adult dogs! This particular puppy is so submissive, she wees when meeting people - all people so she isn't as hard work as some of the others I have homed. She is responsive and very, very willing to learn. I think they have literally given her an inch and she has taken a mile. If everyone is doing things differently, how can anyone not expect the pup to be confused?

So far, in all the years I have raised puppies and the of the 3 litters a bred myself, she is the only one to have been sent back for these reasons/at all. Pops has come over for his dinner and even he is beginning to think they may just be making excuses - grandma took a dislike and they needed a reason to bring her back - no one witnessed this supposed attack last night - so now wondering if it even happened?

As an example, they have had her a couple of weeks and although I knew they weren't going to continue on with the RAW feeding, I weaned the puppies on to a 5 star rated complete puppy food and asked them to stick with this for at least 3-4 months before considering switching to the same brand as their other dog. She has been sent back with a bag of something else and wet food tins. There is nothing wrong with it and no I do not expect owners to stick to what I feed forever, but this is still a transitional period - anything up to 4-6 months is a perfectly acceptable time for a puppy to settle, trust and learn a routine...why do some people instantly think they know better and go against your advice - surely as the breeder, who has the pup's best interests at heart, I would only make these suggestions for the pup AND the new owner?

She went out for a walk with me and apart from pulling like a steam engine and becoming a little startled when a very loud motorbike went past, she was fine. She seems to have forgotten all the basic commands I taught her before she left but is happy and seems fine to me - just as a puppy should be at 4-5 months old.....

Have already got my other puppy parents lined up asking when she will be ready for rehoming...obviously not any time soon but it just goes to show how good my puppy parents are and how well they understand me, my dogs and the needs of my pups!

I think you may be right about the excuses. Why buy a pup from working lines if you cannot accept that it will have some working traits even if not strong ones. Many years ago some friends of mine bred GSDs. The husband was a police dog handler and it was hoped that a couple of the pups would go into the police force. At seven months of age it was decided by the police force that they weren't going to make the grade and so the breeders sold them. One of them was brought back within a couple of days with the excuse that it had stolen a freshly cooked joint of meat. They had left the pup in the kitchen with the meat on the table whilst they went out to the shops! He was also accused of growling at grandma. As I had just lost two of my dogs he was rehomed with me (swopped him for a pram cot highchair etc.). I can believe he stole the meat, how many dogs could have resisted at his age? but the growling never. He went on to be an agility dog. Never the fastest but consistently got clear rounds.

Really pleased gsdowner............sounds like a GSD is not the dog for those people at all then....at least not one under 3 years of age.

Glad she's back and settled and hope she soon finds her forever home.