I feel like I'm going mad! This is not my first litter but feels like it!
My bitch is day 60 today, yesterday she was intermittently panting, I stayed up with her until 2am when she settled and slept for the night.
She ate as normal this morning but vomited it up an hour later. She has been extremely quiet today with moments of intermittent shaking.

I don't think my nerves can take any more! Last litter was born on day 59. I think possibly tonight, but I want more signs!
I think the waiting is the worst thing!

No advice but good luck, get your matchsticks ready. Pups here are 2 days old but we are on day 4 of very little sleep. They are worth it though aren't they

Thankyou.

So my bitch has been wandering around all evening aimlessly and is now just standing or sitting not really doing anything.
She did have an almighty go at the cat that came in the room (out of character).

I'm a bit concerned as her last litter was a section (malpresentation). I'm worrying about inertia as she is also ginormous and expecting a reasonably large litter.

What has her temperature been doing, and what is it now?  I don't know if your breed is large or small, but you might consider having a scan to check the heart frequencies of the puppies.  If your breed is a small one, then you can just carry her into the vet's practice and place her on a sterilised table.  Then carry her back out to the car.  If you have a large breed, then walk her in, don't let her touch anything, and sterilise her feet as soon as you get home.
I fully agree that the waiting is a torture.

I haven't taken her temperature, It's not a method I've used unfortunately.
No progress overnight, lots and lots of trembling this morning, didn't really want to go outside and lots of stringy discharge (which she's been having for the last few days).

Forgot to add- she's a medium sized breed.

>I haven't taken her temperature, It's not a method I've used unfortunately.

>No progress overnight, lots and lots of trembling this morning, didn't really want to go outside and lots of stringy discharge (which she's been having for the last few days).

You couldn't keep me away from the vet, if this were my dog.  But just for interest's sake:  could you take her temp right now and let me know what it is?  In centigrade, as Fahrenheit tells me nothing.  Considering the symptoms you describe, if her temp is 37'0° or lower, she is very likely in first stage labor.

Just back from the vets, he said he wasn't concerned at all and it's just first stage labour, and if nothing has happened later to give them a call back. I'm not sure if I feel reassured or not!
Temperature was 37.4

Well, of course it is not known whether her temperature went down far lower than that and is now on its way back up.  If it had not already dropped lower than 37'4, then I would doubt that labour has begun.  But unfortunately you can't know that.  I check the temperature regularly until the drop is unmistakable, then I know that we are (or should be) on our way.  Probably the vet knows what he is saying, just don't let it go too long.  In my history, it has often been the heart frequencies of the puppies which have determined whether a c-section is called for or not.  It should also be noted that the temperature at the vet's is usually significantly higher than at home, so maybe - probably - all is well.  Does she shiver?

She has been shivering on and off since yesterday, not in the last few hours though. It's the staring/worried look that is concerning me.

I would call the vet again and take her in for a scan of the puppies' heartbeats.  If she's been shivering since yesterday and now things are sort of stopping instead of getting more intense, that would worry me.  Don't wait too long.  And don't forget that vets don't know a whole lot about birthing in terms of the signs.  They know how to do a c-section, but most of them have never been through a normal birth process from beginning to end.

I would agree with Nimue. Have you tried taking her out for a short walk or even a car ride? Sometimes that gets things moving. My first ever home bred litter turned out to be a singleton pup and I swear that taking her out a few times throughout the afternoon and evening both for walks and in the car helped her to whelp the pup herself, without any kind of intervention.

If you do take her out, take her somewhere quiet and not too far from home. Make sure you take some whelping bits and bobs with you too like a carrier bag, towel, alcohol wipes etc.

>I would call the vet again and take her in for a scan of the puppies' heartbeats.

That's a procedure almost unheard-of in the UK. An ultrasound scan would tell you whether the pups were still alive (but if you can feel them moving you know that anyway) but nothing more than that.

That's not quite true.  Scans can tell us whether we still have time to wait, or whether the heart frequencies have gone down to a level which endangers the lives of the puppies.  A year ago, I did just this when the birth process was not going forward, as expected.  The vet told me that one of the 5 puppies was not doing well, and I immediately said:  "Then please get them out of there right away!".  If the heart frequencies are OK, then there is more time to wait in the hopes that a natural birth will take place.

What JG meant is that vets here do not use scanning to monitor the progress of labour/condition of pups. Very few are good at even scanning for pregnancy detection.

Indeed my vet wasn't keen on scanning her as he said it wouldn't really show us anything we don't already know ie. The pups are alive (I can feel them moving) and she was scanned in her last labour and despite the machine being a monstrosity the images were awful in comparison to my scanner lady.

I spoke to the vet at 4pm and he said wait a bit longer. I'm going to take her for a walk in a minute to see if that gets things moving. I've got to phone the vet at 7/8pm to update and decide what to do...
The question is, what do I do? If there's no or limited progress do I assume that the odds are stacked in the favour of inertia at the moment and go for a section while I know (at least some) are alive? Or do I give her a longer chance to go naturally (assuming all is ok)?

>What JG meant is that vets here do not use scanning to monitor the progress of labour/condition of pups. Very few are good at even scanning for pregnancy detection.

Oh.

>The question is, what do I do? If there's no or limited progress do I assume that the odds are stacked in the favour of inertia at the moment and go for a section while I know (at least some) are alive? Or do I give her a longer chance to go naturally (assuming all is ok)?

Best to ask Brainless (Barbara).  Good luck, and I hope all goes well!

Oh lord, if it were me, with a bitch an multiple matings in my medium breed I would not even think of worrying until 2 days past 63 days from first mating.

Also mild signs of first  stage of labour, and no signs of real distress I have had this stage go for 36 hours before first pup born.

I also encourage walking, and have done bumpy car rides between pups, when things have been slow.

On the other hand with some bitches I have known things were not going right much sooner, knowing what was normal for them.

Yes, that's the problem:  breeders have all manner of different experiences behind them.  My bitches have always made it possible through the unmistakable drop in temperature to announce when the birth process was truly starting.  Once the process has gone into gear, it has more often than not involved walking a tightrope between not wanting to intervene and, at the same time, not daring to wait so long that the pups could be endangered (hence the scans on occasion).  And, for instance, I have never ever seen a "stringy discharge".  My bitches lose a glassy, sticky substance towards the end of the pregnancy, and that's it.  So only to say:  you never know quite for sure what to do!

I think if it was her first litter or her first litter had been trouble free, I wouldn't be worrying. What is making me anxious is that she's had a section previously and is carrying a very large litter.

Wouldn't a crystal ball be handy!!

How is it going????

No puppies yet, she started contracting and I thought all systems go, but it's come to a stop this morning and she is back to shaking.
Taking her in for a c section shortly (having discussed with others in the breed and given her history we all feel it's for the best).

I'm sure you are right.  All best, and please let us know how it came out!

"I also encourage walking, and have done bumpy car rides between pups, when things have been slow."    Although I've never actually done this, but it's perhaps a well-known trick that going for a car ride can get things moving - which is why if going to the vet it's always best to take a box with a heat pad, and be prepared to pull over (have somebody with you to watch mum).

Hopefully it's all done and dusted now and you have a nice clean litter, even if mum is zonked out.   I've had them walk from the vet's operating room, to be out of it in the car by the time we got home.    And lifting a dead weight is no fun.   But it does mean you can let the puppies have a good old nurse while she sleeps it off.   Takes me back to our Canadian Dec 24 litter, with sheet ice on the ground!!    And an agent turning up with a welcoming bottle (we'd only just moved into that property) with the best of intentions, in the middle of getting mum in out of the cold and a box full of puppies (9) too.   He rather got the bum's rush and made a hasty exit.

What I've always found disturbing about a c-section is that not only is Mum zonked out, the newborns are too!  So at home, everybody just lies there!  For several hours.  And then, all of a sudden, everybody wakes up, and it takes off!

9 puppies, took a long time to get them breathing but they are all doing well. Vet let me into theatre this time- so strange seeing your dog being operated on.
Thanks everyone for your help. She was spayed at the same time, vet said she had a massive amount of scar tissue so that probably contributed to her problems.

All's well that ends well!  So glad to know it is over and everyone is safe.  All the best to you!

So glad everything worked out well. Congratulations!

Don't need t tell you, but pups are likely to be sleepy so wake them to nurse every hour or so at first.

I have had bad luck and 2 last litters have ended up as csection. .. first 10 pups and second 6 pups ( 4 delivered normally) I  don't know what my vet does but pups come out normal&flying and ready to feed! I just thought this is the case with csection and modern ways but clearly not...

And dover, congratulations on your litter :-)

Thankyou everyone.

Yes despite their slow start getting going they are lively little ones!
Had a slight panic as when my girl was still out of it she had a chew on a cord (I think it was almost instinct to cut the cord but obviously already been done) had blood pouring everywhere but luckily managed to stop it but it's very short- there is hardly any cord left, I hope she will be ok :/

I've been watching intently, especially as you noticed your bitches worry, which I look for too.  Always in the eyes isn't it. 

Glad for you, and especially that your girl is ok.  I hope they all thrive.  My favourite breed.

Now comes the zombie look!