Will pedigree dogs survive???
I went to a big event the other day and could not believe that every other dog was a cross of some king or another.
Was with a casual acquaintance last night and as always happens with me, conversation turns to dogs. She is telling me about her son's new puppy, showing me pictures and how cute. Was just a white dog with brown ears.
So I mentioned how many cross breeds and she may have sensed how I felt and I think she felt the need to explain her sons choice and this was the explanation.
It was a farm. Well not a puppy farm they just happened to have a farm. if you know what I mean they did it all right but just used the dog from next door. I felt myself drifting at that point. Bichon xCavalier.

Yes pedigrees will survive.

It's just that thirty years ago most normal pet owners had "a mutt" "a mongrel" or "a Heinz 57" and now they all have "a designer crossbreed".

The biggest problem that I see from the puppy enquiries I'm getting in the last few years is that a lot of people just don't want to wait. They do all their research online, decide they're 'got to have a .....' and,when they find out that responsible breeders don't have an endless supply of puppies, go and buy what is available, which inevitably at the moment is a designer crossbreed.
So are we part of the problem?? By choosing to not breed a girl I bred, because for me she is too sharp and I don't want her to pass that on, I now won't be breeding again for at least another 5 years from my last litter. In a numerically small breed like mine, to lose one breeder for that length of time has an effect, but on the other hand we also have new people in the breed who are breeding, imho, badly bred litters to sell to the pet market. It's a difficult question....

biffsmum I see what you mean. Not quite the same but I have had in the last couple of years enquiries from people who desperately wanted a Standard Schnauzer and another a Giant Schnauzer. They said they had to wait too long for one from a "good" breeder so they turned to another breed (co-incidentally) that had a beard! These posed me difficulties as temperaments entirely different. My breed is not quite in that situation and there are still "enough" bred but the numbers are falling. A few years ago there was a glut of puppies as the financial situation was changing and I think it frightened a few people.

IMO stick to your guns breed for the reasons u believe in and if the current I want it now society can't wait .I  see no reason why u should lower your standards . I would always rather have a well breed dog of the breed I wanted and to wait or I would rescue

> or I would rescue

but part of the rescue issue is poorly bred dogs sold to unsuitable homes.

Surely if good breeders bred more, and we could increase the number of good breeders, the availability of well bred (at very least carefully reared, as opposed to puppy farmed as a cash crop) pups available would increase, and the number in rescue reduce.

Without volume breeding of the kind in purely commercial enterprises the general standard temperament of the majority of dogs would improve.

If only health and temperament improved it would be something.

In my own breed where numbers are down to just double figures per year (yet still unregsitered dogs are bred and imported from Ireland), we could stand to double the number of breeders and pups bred so we could get back to three figures.  At our height there were 300 pups registered annually, when I started 20+ years ago around 150, now we are at  third to half that.

We need to in all the 100 least numerically large breeds (who account for only 2% of KC registrations), encourage an interest in our breed and encourage new potential breeders. 

We do need as breeds to do what our constitutions tell us 'promote' our breeds in suitable venues, where suitable potential owners are likely to be.  so game fairs country shows.

When I meet someone wanting to get a dog I encourage them to look at the less known/unknown breeds by telling them even tho0ugh they will need to wait they are more likely to find only real bred enthusiasts breeding, go through the breed clubs, as such breeds are generally not a money maker for puppy farmers.

you are right about rescue or part of the problem Brainless.  personally if I wanted a particular breed I would wait for the right one as I have before and shall be for next  pup . If I was in such a rush that I couldn't/ wouldn't  wait I feel it is better to rescue than rush off to any old place to get a dog  .
know that doesn't solve eiter problem but I don't get the whims of people when buying a dog.

I've waited years for the right pup from the right breeder and would happily do it again.  my current breed I said to the breeder of my eldest that should she mate her girl I'd love a puppy. 6 months later I had my girl and couldn't be happier with her
some breeds you need to go on a waiting list and with some breeders but others you don't and hence why cd find a puppy list is a good one to have a look through.

Sadly we know that Joe Public won't do that. Puppy buyers can be a very disloyal bunch and over the years I've had people visit me and my dogs at home, they really like my stud dog (who is fantastic so I don't blame them lol) say they definitely want a pup off of me and then go and buy one from a breeder who is producing dogs that look nothing like him!! They just want a puppy.
Someone who's children go to the same school as my niece and nephew said she wanted a puppy, so my sister, who has one of my vallhunds, told her all about Discover Dogs. best way to get a puppy etc etc. The next week she told her she'd got a crossbreed from our "local" puppy farm as "they just wanted a dog". They hadn't seen either Mum or Dad, just picked him out of a litter in a stable. This is what we're up against...

Yes I don't think you can compare now with what was happening with x breeds or mongrels when I was growing up ( I'm now 60)
We had 2 mongrels in my youth both actually lived long lives. ( wasn't the money to go to vets then unless extreme emergency.)
Dogs of mixed history hung around in the park and bitches were not spayed. Think is was actually years before I encountered a pedigree dog on my council estate!!!!
Now mongrels are specific, 2 breeds deliberately mated and from breeds often with known health problems. We are all supposed to be more educated now
about breeders and breeds but we seem to have come away from that or gone in reverse. I know in my own breed, in the 70's and 80's the old timers talk about the days when there were in excess of 100 at Open Shows and the breeders amongst them were many. Now we are lucky of we get 15 and to get a stud dog is tricky when you are concerned about what you are using. As long as Joe Public are convinced about the health and non shedding of these breeds their popularity will grow and as a result breeders trying to breed from healthy, tested  and good looking dogs, the popularity will decline.

The mongrels are not all that specific except in the adverts. For example I know someone with a husky X lab who looks and acts to be at least 30% collie. But they proudly tell everyone about their designer crossbreed. And in fact I know several French bulldog crosses that are clearly staffy mixes. The designer crossbreeds cannot be registered, so people rarely want proof their parents were, and in many cases never see the parents anyway. So they may well be phoning after the pomsky puppies in the advert, but they could be getting anything vaguely spitzy in fact.

I do think that many people are buying an it an out mongrel.

One I know is supposed to be a Bichon x JRT Looks like a Spaniel cross.

As for the supposed Chi dog they bought unregistered for £750 (£100 more than my breed cost at the time from health tested champion parentage ), is no more a Chi than I am.  JACK Russell size and type but weedier, though is fawn so maybe a Chi sire.

> As for the supposed Chi dog they bought unregistered for £750 (£100 more than my breed cost at the time from health tested champion parentage ), is no more a Chi than I am.  JACK Russell size and type but weedier, though is fawn so maybe a Chi sire.

Barbara I always feel awful when a pet owner shows me their beautiful Chihuahua.  Beautiful in their eyes, yes.  But you don't need to be a breed judge to see the Jack in them.  I have to grit my teeth and just listen.. I found years ago that telling the truth can start bad feeling.  But surely, if they visit to show off their pet, they must be able to see that it looks nothing like my dogs.  AND they've paid top dollar for a mongrel.

You'd be amazed how many people really can't see that their dog looks nothing like the breed standard. I have some Cavalier placemats my Dad got me, and though most of the pictures are quite nice, one of them is a really hideously ugly blenheim with a terrible head. My first Cavalier was a stunningly gorgeous blenheim who won a CC and two Firsts at Crufts and numerous other top placings, and had a really beautiful head. And yet my Mum, who is an intelligent woman and would not be teasing me, genuinely says she cannot see the difference between the two head types!

How true, I have had people insist my beautiful breed standard cavaliers are King charles because their 'Cavalier' is much bigger! The poor thing was huge - bigger than a large cocker spaniel and its head was dreadful, It was obvious they had some springer in their very recent past! the same people once told me they took their dog with them when they went to watch a show and they were offended when a judge asked them what kind of spaniel it was!!

I wonder how many if the crosses are actually need from pure breeds even if the breeder doesn't realise they have a dog with other parentage.the husky lab could well have other breeds in the background that isn't obvious.i know a cocker poo that looks identical to a full working cocker.breed from her as pure bred which she isn't and anything could pop up

My husband sometimes asks me "what breed is that?"

Very often I have to reply..." They THINK it's a ****** ( fill in the blank)"
It's is certainly what they thought they had paid for.

That's true Furriefriends, I groom a cockerpoo who could easily pass for pure poodle. I also know someone with a labradoodle that looks like nothing more than a black terrier cross!

Yes, they will.  There are plenty of people, myself included, who are sick to death of the designer dog craze and woop with joy when we meet an actual breed!  I had the pleasure of meeting a pyrenean sheepdog on tuesday, and I'm so used to meeting to doodles that I had to ask what he was - I was thrilled to hear the answer and his owner was of much the same mind as me, not a doodle fan either.

> My husband sometimes asks me "what breed is that?"

I judged an exemption show last summer and was presented with what I thought at first glance was a Giant Schnauzer. Something in the back of my mind said it wasn't quite right, so I asked the owner and they declared it was a Labradoodle with a "Schnauzer Cut"! Why would you go to all that trouble? Just buy a Giant Schnauzer

When one of my recent new owners contacted me they were scarred mentally in their case and physically in the case of their daughter. they had been persuaded by well meaning friends after the death of their beloved Cavalier (who was nearly 14 when he died) that a designer-cross breed was better because it would have better health ?!? They sadly picked up their new dog and after months of behavioural problems and trying dog-trainers, etc they suffered the horror of the cross breed attacking and severely biting their daughter. Needless to say they had to re-home the dog (I am not sure its exact fate, they were still genuinely traumatised when I was talking to them). After a length of time and not wanting their daughter to grow up scared of dogs they returned to the Cavalier as a possible pet. After many meetings of the little girl and my dogs and much advice and support they took ownership of a well balanced well bred healthy cavalier puppy. To say they are thrilled is an understatement, I have been sent so many pictures of what was a frightened little girl who now adores and is adored by her four-legged  best friend.

You can get unpredictable results when you cross, the whole point of  breed standard is that you know physically and mentally what to expect, neither of the breeds in their cross breed was know for having bad temperament but jumble things up a bit and out pops something odd!

I hope people will continue to see the value of a pure breed, but it is true I like many on here often get asked by my husband - "what breed is that?" and all too often I end up saying oh just some poo- type thing. I have even heard of people crossing crosses (mongrel to most of us) and then coming up with the most stupid long winded name and being thrilled !

In 'foo' can we start a list of all the crosses with designer labels??? I've looked today and will put up the crosses I have found and lots of them cost more than pure breeds!

ETA: Put it in idle chat instead....

Giant Schnauzers and Labradoodles have totally different temperaments though. It is probably the groomer who gave it a Schnauzer cut after looking online.

When Westies were mega popular, local groomers only did a Westie trim on most breeds. Even now at one groomer all small fluffy beasts come out looking like Bichons-fluffy round heads, shaved body and fluffy legs!

When Westies were mega popular, local groomers only did a Westie trim on most breeds. Even now at one groomer all small fluffy beasts come out looking like Bichons-fluffy round heads, shaved body and fluffy legs!

If that isn't a reason to learn how to groom your own dog, I don't know what is!

Then there's Poodlenoodle's 'hygiene' cut!! (Shaved belly)

I don't think people understand what non-sheddingt/hypoallergenic means in terms of coat  and, with the huge increase in these types of dogs, there's been a concomitant increase in groomers, many of whom have minimal training and experience.

> I have been sent so many pictures of what was a frightened little girl who now adores and is adored by her four-legged  best friend.<br />

Heartwarming.   

Must admit I'm increasingly doing virtually the same trim on most of the dogs I get in - but it's the owners wishes or lack of brushing that creates that problem - all off on anything between a 5/8 blade to a 7F, with the best attempt I can make of a bit of breed standard in the head, given that half the time I've had to clip matts under ears or chin off or the hair is completely the wrong type for the breed so it won't hold the correct shape.

Yes - I HOPE

More people should read this...... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2564373/The-hidden-suffering-dogs-bred-cute-Adorable-looks-Cuddly-names-like-Labradoodle-But-trend-cross-breed-dogs-raises-disturbing-questions.html

Actually my sanitary cut is the end of the prepuce, a small area around and roughly half an inch around the critical area under his tail. I have abandoned shaving his stomach as he needs all the coverage from biting insects he can get.

I am a complete amateur but do not inflict my efforts on anyone but my own dog. I think the day to day grooming is what goes missing, when I knew we were getting a poodle I knew he'd need a MINIMUM of a thorough slicker-then-greyhound-comb brush out every few days, a sanitary and between pads/around face (eyes and mouth minimum) trim every fortnight-month and an all over clip every 6-8 weeks. Most oodly doodly types I meet get almost no grooming and arrive at the professional groomers every three months needing a surgical shave to get the mats off. Non shedding is seen as "low maintenance" when it is (or should be) the opposite.