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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Weaning pups
- By Gundogs Date 05.09.16 12:03 UTC
We just weaned a litter of pups onto raw.
I'd like to hear peoples opinions of what they use for weaning and the pros on cons. You guys have decades of experience and I'd really appreciate your thoughts.
Factors such as:
How well the pups took to it
Incidences of 'upset tummies'
Poo quantity and quality
Cleanliness of pups (did trampled poo get into coats etc)
Growth rates
General health
Cost and ease
Many thanks in advance for your useful input.
- By furriefriends Date 05.09.16 14:24 UTC
hopefully wait ok will see this and be able to help as she breeds and feeds raw. Ive never bred so little idea of weaning pups to raw but feed raw from when they are mine and am totally passionate that it the right  .
- By Brainless [gb] Date 05.09.16 21:59 UTC Edited 05.09.16 22:02 UTC
only issue with raw is how many of the [potential puppy owners will want to feed this way,  or be knowledgeable enough about canine nutrition, to feed raw without doing nutritional damage if they get it wrong at the most crucial development stages in a dogs life.

So I would feed at least one meal a day of a decent complete which the new owners can use if not confident/knowledgeable enough to feed raw.
- By debbo198 [gb] Date 06.09.16 13:57 UTC
You can actually get  a  decent raw complete .  There's also some great Facebook groups to help, my favourite is BARF UK.  
I'm with Furriefriends on this - best thing i did and I'd never go back to processed.
I don't know about weaning but I think giving a diet sheet and a week's worth of food and links for advice would be best when they go to new owner, plus encouraging them to research before taking puppy home.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 06.09.16 14:00 UTC

> I don't know about weaning but I think giving a diet sheet and a week's worth of food and links for advice would be best when they go to new owner, plus encouraging them to research before taking puppy home.


but it's a big risk if they get it wrong.  The rate puppies grow and develop at you can do a lot of damage in a short time.

If they are already barfers great, but the vast majority are not going to get the hang of it in a short time.

We all know that a lot of orthopaedic issues used to be caused by mineral imbalances, either lack or over supplementing.
- By furriefriends Date 06.09.16 14:39 UTC
as long as breeders/ owners research or are experienced and as debbo said  if not confident use a complete its actually very safe. Personnaly I have more faith in raw than I do in feeding a commercial food
I know a lot of people who wean straight to raw and so far cant say I have heard of any problems later on. Some of the breeders I know start on raw and will only sell to raw fed homes which may be what this op is thinking of doing  or as the pups grow do also feed some kibble so they are used to it when they go their new homes if they arnt going to stay raw.
- By Noora Date 07.09.16 01:04 UTC Edited 07.09.16 01:11 UTC Upvotes 1
My last litter of 10 was raw weaned and pups kept on raw and none of the owners were previously raw feeders. I advised of a easy to read book for the new owners to read and pups were weaned on raw complete available nationwide ( 1 puppy was exported abroad and even he stayed on raw and another moved abroad as 1 year old, again stayed on raw).  Mine is a giant breed so incorrect feeding would indeed do lot of damage and is a very real issue with inexperienced owners even when fed kibble.

I'm happy to say all owners coped wonderfully and all pups have grown without any issues often seen in kibble fed pups (legs bending, low pastes,  cow hocks, icky ears etc).
With my next litter I'm not giving a choice of moving the puppy on kibble but have told my pups are raw weaned and I expect that to be continued, that is how happy I've been with results :-) obviously I offer full support and expect to spend more time on advising with feeding than I would be if the food came from a bag.
I have more homes waiting than I will have puppies, obviously not knowing the sexes we will have.

We did have a cambylobacta infection when pups were small obviously from raw meat but I used to give little raw even when kibble feeding so could have had that even then, just bad luck I suppose.

How well the pups took to it - loved it
Incidences of 'upset tummies' - just the above
Poo quantity and quality - less and lot less smelly
Cleanliness of pups (did trampled poo get into coats etc) - not really as nicely formed apart of the cambylobacta that was not pretty
Growth rates - very pleased how pups grew
General health - very pleased
Cost and ease - cost about the same as good quality kibble. My Litter ate over 10KG of food a day + my adults further 5kg so we did have to reorder weekly as only have one chest freezer!
- By Gundogs Date 13.09.16 11:40 UTC
Unfortunately no answers from non raw feeders to compare.
Has anyone weaned a litter on raw and one non-raw/kibble and preferred the results from non-raw/kibble?
- By Brainless [gb] Date 13.09.16 12:29 UTC Edited 13.09.16 12:31 UTC
I have done both in the past and also a mixture, with no noticeable difference.

When I had fewer dogs, and before the meat on the bone ban a few years ago I was able to get quite a bit from old fashioned butcher (now no more) and a raw supplier willing to deliver smaller amounts, because of delivering in the area.

Since raw feeding has become popular prices have rocketed, and storage is an issue for me with the amounts needed to be ordered to make it cost effective.

I'm not prepared  to pay as much or more for the dogs meat than my own, especially  as we'd be talking about the offcuts/ surplus from human food chain..

My choice is to feed a decent complete and to give the dogs raw elements as and when I can get a good deal, and they get all our leftovers.
- By debbo198 [gb] Date 13.09.16 21:20 UTC Upvotes 1
  as we'd be talking about the offcuts/ surplus from human food chain..

That may be true if buying pet mince from a butcher but most suppliers sell human grade meat (apart from green tripe of course).
Some suppliers are also very ethical in sourcing their meats.  I buy from a retailer who offers a wide range of suppliers, plus i buy Morrison's bargains -my diet has improved since feeding raw too
- By Brainless [gb] Date 13.09.16 21:59 UTC
Nothing unethical about using the cuts and parts of the beast we prefer to not eat, these have always been fed to our carnivorous pets.

I want the animal to be fit fir human consumption not necessarily the parts fed to the dogs to be prime cuts.
- By debbo198 [gb] Date 13.09.16 22:42 UTC
I meant ethical as how the animals are treated/raised before slaughter
It's interesting that a lot of parts people haven't eaten for a while are now back in fashion: cheek being one that's quite expensive when paying full price
- By Brainless [gb] Date 13.09.16 22:51 UTC
I am if Eastern European parents.  I have a theory that what we used to be able to get free from the butchers is now not available as I suspect the more adventurous/inventive Poles and other Eastern Europeans really do use every part of the pig and most other animals, so little left for mans best friend for free or cheap.

Celebrity chefs telling use to use cheap cuts like Beef skirt/shin, Belly of Pork Breast of lamb have made these things fashionable and no longer cheap.

Seriously though there are virtually no butchers near me that joint their own meat, selling already pre-packaged cuts/joints
- By debbo198 [gb] Date 13.09.16 23:56 UTC
You're spot on with celeb chefs doing us out of what were once cheap cuts - oxtails are a ridiculous price (don't feed them to dogs as they're a choking hazard btw) but great for stews.

I'm now on my own so don't have much of a need of a butcher & certainly wouldn't spend enough on 'premium' meats to warrant them giving me freebies like I know people get.  Yes, there are so many H&S rules that puts many butchers not being true butchers - just get parts delivered.
- By furriefriends Date 14.09.16 07:00 UTC Upvotes 1
I don't get anything from butchers for the dogs it's all the offcuts and not the quality I want to feed.i get all mine from a supplier who provides ethically sourced  uk human grade food that in the case of the chunks I would happily feed to the humans.(I don't btw) there are now a lot of these suppliers nationally. All the meat costs less than what I pay for mine. For me raw is the way .
- By Merlot [gb] Date 14.09.16 10:23 UTC Upvotes 3
I feed raw to pups and have for years. I used to feed complete and have seen a really good improvement with raw. Many commercial raw suppliers now do complete minces with the correct ratios of bone/muscle/offal and gut. I also use chicken feet and necks once pups are ready to chew under supervision.  I do teach pups to chew by holding bony meals etc while still with me and in a crowd. Once I have one pup left they have little need to snatch and gulp out of competition! Mine grown up girls crunch everything up with great relish ! Raw to go is IMO one of the best. A wide variety of protein sources and good quality food is the key. Mine is a large breed and I have had no problems with puppy buyers they either keep to the raw or they move over gradually with guidance from me.
My experiences :-
Poos are firm and less in quantity.
Pups are leaner but fitter and have less roly poly flab, better for big pups than a wobbly teddy bear.
Appetite is good.
Growth rates are steady and strong bone is promoted, but not too fast.
A raw fed pup will take longer to mature often but once mature will on the whole stay in great condition for longer.
Vet visits have been cut down dramatically.
Aileen
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Weaning pups

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