My little "Rini", who I bred myself and who was born on November 21st, 2015, has, at 9 months, just come into heat.  She is a week (maybe 8 days, if I caught the first day) along and started out with a lot of swelling and a lot of very red blood.  My two males noticed right away that she had suddenly become far more interesting than she used to be.  They have been monitoring her progress attentively.  They are still interested - in fact, one of them tried mounting her this morning - but neither of them has "gone crazy" yet.  But now I notice that her discharge has practically come to an end, or so it seems.  She is still swollen nevertheless.  I wonder if it will start up again.  I have not seen this development before.  But I have heard that the first heat can often be quite irregular in how it manifests and does not necessarily indicate anything about future heats.

Any comments welcome.  Ah yes, it might be worthwhile to mention that Rini's mother Lulu ovulates very early in her season (about day 9 or 10).  And I hasten to add:   I certainly do not intend to mate little Rini!  She is wearing her pants, and that's how I can tell that the discharge has almost stopped.

She could now be at the peak of her season, I usually find that the bleeding tails off at that time.

The peak of her season at 8 days?  I guess that is possible.  She certainlly did start off with a bang!  I thought:  "Wow!  It's all there already!"  So perhaps she progressed really quickly to her peak.  But the boys, though certainly well-aware of what is going on, are not yet going crazy.  She, for her part, has now started flagging and standing there, letting them mount (they are wearing protective belts).

I am sure that Rini's Mom Lulu and her Aunt Felicia (Lulu's sister) are also coming into heat.  We are in for some lively weeks to come.  I will only mate Lulu.

Could be, you may have missed the first day or two, I've had successful matings from day 10 and 13.

> I've had successful matings from day 10 and 13.

I've had a bitch ovulate on day 4.    I've also had a bitch mated on day 28 and had a successful litter.
And my males are crated when I have a bitch I season.  From day 1 for 4 weeks.  They take 1 hour turnarounds for fairness.  Letting boys mount just frustrates and gets them singing for longer.

For those who think this isn't fair - I've had a bitch allow a boy to remove her knickers.  (Yes, I know.  Slut!)  She doesn't get it off me. 

If a bitch were to ovulate on day 4, is one to assume that this would cause the bleeding to stop?  I am also wondering about a so-called "split heat", which, according to what I have heard, occurs (though seldom) primarily in very young bitches.

Jeansw your dogs make me laugh. I don't breed and would.be devastated at an oops litter so I counted 4 weeks from day 1 to keep away from dogs apart from my castrated male who we manage. However my bitch is now spayed

I vociferously object! If allowing the removal of knickers is to be considered a moral failing surely the entire population of forum users must be called into question!?

Depends who/why they're removed!

Doesn't affect me Rozzie, I don't wear any

Protective belts? What are these? A form of chastity belt?

>Protective belts? What are these? A form of chastity belt?

Well, I don't know what you mean by chastity belt, but I use these, whatever you want to call them:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Belts+for+male+dogs

Actually, my original post was not about chastity belts, but about the variations in the first season of a very young bitch.

Do you been the males are wearing protective belts, I have been trying to imagine what these look like!  I would not trust the lady pants to stop a determined dog, my male removed his girlfriend's knickers with his teeth, lucky I was there before the dastardly deed was done, she was off to stay with my friend within the hour.

Sorry Nimue, we are all going off topic, it must be the heat and talking about underwear, not much excitement in my life!

I've not read your answers BUT why in the world, once you realised she was coming into season (which you should surely have anticipated would eventually happen unless she was spayed first) did you not move her TOTALLY away from your males?    Rest assured once she's in standing heat, which if the blood coloured discharge has ceased she will be, they will go NUTS.   And probably fight too.   

For information - the first week or so of a season, the bitch will have a blood-coloured discharge which when approaching around day 10, will fade to being less and of a light straw colour.   THIS IS WHEN SHE'S READY TO MATE.   It is not the end of the season.   The norm for being in standing heat is around days 10 - 14 but no two bitches are the same, even with the same bitch, different heat.   Some will stand earlier, some later which is why the owner of the bitch must confine her from day one to day 21+ of a season.    If they want to avoid her becoming pregnant which is this is her age and first season, must NOT happen.   Puppies shouldn't be producing puppies.

Now you have left the dogs around her, all I can offer is that you get her, or them out of your home until she's out of season.   Otherwise you'll have to put up with them barking, pacing, howling, fighting with each other and going off their food until this is all over.   Seriously.

Whatever you do this time, plan on getting her spayed in another couple of months.  Please.

And if you think all these belts and diapers are going to prevent her from being caught - THINK AGAIN.    Further, her discharge needs to come away, not be held against her - and it's not hygienic to think otherwise.   No owner can change a bitch often enough for it to be hygienic.   You have to confine her to somewhere you can wipe up any discharge.   As for putting belts on males -  just sigh

I have been breeding for 25 years.  And no, I am not planning to spay the female I have kept back from my last litter.  Please, everyone, just ignore my post entirely.  It's gone so off topic that there is no point in continuing.

Mamabas, I really cannot understand why you are addressing me as if I were a newbie about to breed a 9-month-old female!  I actually would expect an apology, but what the hell.  We aren't "real people" anyhow, are we.

I'm pretty disappointed, and VERY sorry I asked about the unique traits of first heats.

Apologies.

I also apologise for my part in the derailing, I didn't anticipate the turn it took!

A friend recently had her medium size bitch come into her second season and something similar occurred at her first - very sudden fairly copious red blood and swelling one day and nothing the day before (and this person had another bitch in season at the time so was looking out for signs). All the discharge suddenly stopped at day 6 never to return. This friend only has bitches so no males to give their opinions BUT the junior bitch was encouraging the older to mount her on days 5-9. Vet gave some fluffy opinion about it maybe not being a real season and to basically wait and see, but here we are, 6 months later and she just finished a much more "normal" season with gradual onset and flagging on days 13-16.

If you are planning to breed her on her 3rd season you still have her second to try to assess if it's an anomaly or "normal for her" so you can make sensible plans on which day to mate her. Wait and see I suppose?

As to the hygiene issue of pants...I'm sure any woman of childbearing age or above can manage to keep her bitch clean as she has herself 12-13 times a year for 35 years!

Thanks, Poodlenoodle.  I have always admired your posts, so your support and information here was welcome.  As a matter of fact, this was exactly what I was hoping to hear:  that others have experienced irregularities with first heats.  I just wondered how these irregularities might have manifested.  In all my years of breeding, I have only experienced these kinds of things once.

Yes, of course I am planning to breed Rini on her third season.  As to hygiene:  there is no problem.  I alternate between having the boys in belts and the female in pants.  I never leave them alone together no matter what they may or may not be wearing.  I change the pads I use in both belts and pants multiple times per day, and nowadays, you can use diapers or pads for incontinence or menstrual periods or whatever (for humans, in all different sizes) which absorb the dampness and leave the surfact dry-ish.  So if you change the pads 6 or 8 times a day, there really is no problem.

And no, my two males do not fight.  I live alone, am retired, and have all the time in the world to watch over things and have a small and very manageable breed.
The last time I farmed a bitch in heat out to stay with a trusted person who lives not far from me (5 minutes by car), she pulled out of her collar on a walk and was lost for 3 days and 2 nights until I found her, an experience I never EVER want to repeat or risk.  So I prefer to have everybody right here with me, and we're doing just fine.
If I were to crate my males for 4 weeks - as has been urgently suggested - they would probably die of sadness and despair.

It's funny how you can do something for decades and not come across a variation, or for only a few years and come accross it often, isn't it?

This is maybe a bit gross, but I have a question... If the boys mount in a belt or with the girls in pants, do they actually ejaculate? And if you are using one of those dogs as stud does that matter? As a teenager I helped manage a stallion and in horses one would never let the main stud "waste" himself like that, though teaser stallions are occasionally allowed to mount and ejaculate (in a shield to prevent actual contact) to stop them from going mad with frustration. But stallion "shares" are sold, usually one a week, so for him to be potent during the two or three coverings of each mare with a share he has to save himself. If you leave the stallion to run with the mares they tend to cover several mares a day for several days, and foals generally resulted, so I wonder how much of that was lore rather than based on biological facts.

>This is maybe a bit gross, but I have a question... If the boys mount in a belt or with the girls in pants, do they actually ejaculate?

Nope, they don't.  Or at least MINE don't.  Actually they don't even go on that long at one time.  It's not like they are "at it" all day long.  And - miraculously - they stop all activity during the night.  I (always) have them all crated in my room at night (boys in a huge cage, girls two each to one of two big canvas "boxes" in the room.  They all know that I won't tolerate any noise during the night!  When we get up in the morning, all hell breaks loose, of course!  But we manage.  And they are all much happier being allowed to be together, albeit with belts or pants or both, than with being separated.  It works for me (and them) pretty well!  There is also a pecking order established (long ago) between the two boys, and this works well too.

I don't think Mamabas realised your an experienced breeder, some of us tend to read the post rather than realise who posted.

Things are obviously more breed dependent as you could never get away with keeping my (primitive medium  size strong Spitz) or her breed (large hound) from mating a bitch in the same room, no matter what pants or clothing barriers you put in place.

It's always at least two doors and a crate, and never would two males not fight over an in season bitch in the house, so the males need to be boarded out of the house (why I only keep bitches).

As for funny seasons, a bitch recently came to my friends stud dog (mature maiden bitch) and she bled for a week, and all signs of season stopped and the male showed no interest, she just never reached standing heat.  So now they are waiting for her to come in again.

going with varied seasons. my now spayed bitch only ever had 3 in 5 years . I never had a clue when she was due. I think she thought she was a primitive breed and was going for 1 a year but couldn't count

Nimue

Please don't purposely misinterpret my statements.  My boys are not permanently in a crate for 4 weeks.  And please don't intimate that they are cruelly confined.  There is no need to pick holes and make spiteful comments.  Just accept that not everyone will agree with each other.

My reply was to goldenmums comment on days that her bitches mate.

And if you couldn't just laugh off my purposely humorous comments at the end, then it's a crying shame.

>I don't think Mamabas realised your an experienced breeder, some of us tend to read the post rather than realise who posted.

It is indeed a bizarre post from someone with many litters under her belt; it's the sort of question you'd expect from someone planning their first litter.

> I don't think Mamabas realised your an experienced breeder, some of us tend to read the post rather than realise who posted.<br />

Weeel - For sure I did know who this contributor is (experienced breeder) but I tend to answer for the 'benefit' of all ..... and in defence of my answer, I'd not have expected this question to have come from somebody 'experienced' to be honest.   Yes, no two bitches are the same, and even no two seasons in the same bitch can always be the same.   And wouldn't somebody experienced know that when a bitch is going to standing heat, the discharge goes to a pale straw colour and in some cases, almost stops?

If it pleases the OP to have my apology, so be it - I apologise.   But I remain confused about exactly what this individual does and doesn't know.   If you read the question, as it appears, you'd probably come to the conclusion I came to about the knowledge of this breeder

Dear Mamabas,

I have had a great amount of experience in breeding and so of course I know and am aware of all the things you mention.  However:  What I have NOT had experience with is with the irregularities I've heard about occurring in first heats sometimes.  All of my bitches all these years have come into heat for the first time just as it should be, by the book, so to speak.  This time with Rini it is different than I have ever seen before.  That's why I asked!  For instance:  I have never seen a bitch go into standing heat on day 4.  I have never seen the discharge stop COMPLETELY after 7 days.  Yet the swelling remains (no color whatsoever),  she stands, and my boys show a lively interest, though they have definitely not "gone crazy" as yet.  I don't know if they ever will. Yes, I am stumped. If you all think I am an idiot, then so be it.

OK?  So I felt (feel) it might have something to do with it's being a "first season" and wondered what others have experienced.  I hope this explains.  I surely do regret having asked.

We all keep learning no matter how experienced, and may encounter something new.

So no question is a silly question if the answer is not known.

Never experienced this but I am sure it's just a variation of a season, maybe as she is quite young her hormones are not as strong as they will be in later ones which would possibly account for your dog's lack of full on interest.

I had a GSD bitch who's first season at six months lasted for seven days and then stopped. She then came into season again at nine months and had a normal season. I put it down to the fact that all my other GSD bitches had not had their first season until nine months and one as late as eighteen months so she was not mature enough to have a full season. None of my bitches, either GSD or BSD have ever had the straw phase but have bleed red all the way through