Sorry for the long post
My little Papillon pup is 3 days shy of 9 months now and his retained testicle still hasn’t dropped.  It can be felt and seen externally in what I think is his inguinal canal (sp)? though, despite looking up male canine genitalia I’m not certain as I didn’t think that was on the outside???  Forgive my ignorance :B.
My vets advised that if it hadn’t dropped by 9 months it wouldn’t, especially with him being a toy breed that matures earlier. He weighs a fit, lean and muscular 3.1-3.2kg now that’s been pretty stable for a few weeks so I think he’s done most of his growing now?  The vet, I have seen most at my practice, has told me that they won’t just remove his retained testicle, which I told them I want, but I haven’t spoken to the chief vet about it, yet…
I definitely want the retained testicle removed but not his other (although I am considering a vasectomy on that one) for health reasons as both impact on different cancers, also testosterone has other health and behavioural benefits so I don’t want to remove both.
I’ve read that people have left it longer than this but I am getting quite anxious about it now, not least because of financial considerations as it will be considerably more expensive than a straight forward castration and he also could do with his hernia removed at the same time (he is insured but these are not covered) I currently have the cash but may not in a while…
My other great concern is anaesthesia; I believe there are much greater risks in toy breeds but there’s newer and/or more appropriate/recommended ones for toy breeds?
Any thoughts and advice would be greatly appreciated, especially by Goldmali and JeanSW as I know you are both so experienced by breed (Goldmali) and/or size (JeanSW) not to mention experience.  I’m not intentionally insulting anyone by saying that – any and all advice will be greatly appreciated!

Your vet should follow your instructions re removal of a retained testicle, never had a dog with a retained testicle, but know people who have & whose dogs were over a year old when operated on & who only had the retained testicle removed.

As long as you are not planning to breed from him, then I cannot see why your vet is insisting on castration.

If they refuse to remove just the retained testicle I would find another vet who will.

Thanks for your reply Tommee.  These are relatively new to me vets (long story)  I've had to argue about vaccinations too as I only wanted 16 week DHP vac and titred (elsewhere)  my year old pup and gave copies of results to these vets but they still keep sending me reminders.  I think you're right about changing vets - it's just who to?  I do like to know what I'm talking about before I see a vet these days too - wish I'd done it long ago - I feel like I have to train the vet to my way of thinking and it gets tiring but once under the knife I've no influence.
What size dogs were/are your friends?

My daughter had a Pap off me that only had one testicle (was meant to go to a show home but that put a stop to it). We kept hoping it would drop but it never did. He was castrated at 12 months. To be honest, if it was my dog, I would have both removed. Yes the coat becomes a lot fuller and thicker and more difficult to manage, but the plus point is that you don't get as much leg cocking and in particular not the wee on the coat that seems to be the same for pretty much all the entire male dogs. (Mine need bathing once a week to not stink!) However, that's up to you of course and the vet should agree to remove just the retained one. I've never had a problem with general anaesthetics in my Papillons. I've had castrations, spaying, dentals and an emergency spay due to pyometra. The smallest I had anythign done to was a bitch I wanted spayed as she was too small to breed from, she weighed 2.1 kilos.

Thanks Goldmalli
(was meant to go to a show home but that put a stop to it). - LOL - that's how I was fortunate enough to get Louis though he's a champ to me.  

I'm pretty much determined about him keeping the one testicle for a number of reasons; confidence - though he is quite confident anyway, protection against many cancers - I know the studies have been mainly on large breed dogs but even so... his coat is already very full and thick - due I think, to his good raw diet, it's interesting that you say pee-coat is worse on entires (my other dog is an entire male x breed & broken coated)  my previous males were neutered and I didn't notice this even on my FCR x GSD.

I really appreciate your experience about anaesthetics too - it really scares me.

Completely different size but Zuma had the one that was retained removed at the same time as surgery for probable gut obstruction, it added about a fiver to the bill, prior to this my vet was quite happy to plan on leaving it till he was 2½ / 3 yrs then removing just the one.
Edited to add he was about 16/18 month old
Someone I know had a vet who started insisting that both had to be removed from her Rott, she pointed out that she paid the bills for all the other work he did with their farm animals and when George went in if he did not follow her instructions - which she also wrote on the surgery permission - she would sue PLUS he would loose all the farm work , and she would let all their aquaintances know.............George just had the one removed.
I agree you need a new vet

it's interesting that you say pee-coat is worse on entires (my other dog is an entire male x breed & broken coated)  my previous males were neutered and I didn't notice this even on my FCR x GSD.


In my experience, it very much seems to be a Papillon thing. I've not seen it in the other breeds I've kept over the years. Life would be a lot easier if I could keep only bitches.

Gosh Tattyhead You've given me lots to think about there - thank you!
I think my current vets, or any other i use, won't suffer much from lack of my business as I have titer tested (so no further vaccination income) do Wormcounts (so no excessive wormers) will only treat external parasites if they ever get any, & feed raw which gives them a strong immune system. 

I can still sue though :lol

They were a mix of spaniels & collies including a King Charles Spaniel so small to medium in size

With my previous rottie, one of his was slow in coming down and someone on here at the time (think it was Tooolz around 7 years ago) suggested regularly putting him on my knee and jiggling him about.  There was a bit more to it than that but i have forgotten the details.  Anyway, it dropped and all was well.

There is certainly no hurry in having the retained one removed you can wait another year or so.

http://forum.champdogs.co.uk/topic_show.pl?pid=1036606%3bhl=tooolz%2520testicle#pid1036606  here is the original thread where the shoogle technique was explained.

Thanks so much everyone for your comments and advice.   The shoogle post made me giggle. 
I'm going to wait a while longer - maybe until 18 months or so. At least I don't feel quite so anxious about it now  :)

Forgot to say that it'll also give me more time to investigate vets.

I've purposely bought in a bitch just to have her spayed.  She was advertised as a brood!  Grrrr!  She weighs well under 2kg which is not breeding size. I knew that my surgery spayed ferrets etc. and like Goldmali did not worry about the anaesthetic.  Just saying how safe todays anaesthetics are.  Not something I would tell you to worry too much about.

My 11year old Border Collie had only one testicle drop, and the remaining testicle had been retained in the inguinal canal.  (I'm not sure when it closes.)  I have regrets at having my boy castrated at 11 months old.  I wish like mad that I had left it until he was 2-3 years old.  He is far too submissive for my liking.  And I would never again have both removed.  All my other boys are entire. 

If I could go back in time I would not only have had the retained testicle removed, and at that time I spent around £7,000 a year at the vet, I would definitely have had that held over their heads if they had disagreed with me.  My favourite vet does not like it one bit that I won't worm the gang every month.  It irritates the hell out of him.  My dogs, my choice.

I know that I wouldn't have your boy done until he was 2-3 years of age.  But we can only give you what we would do, the rest is up to you. 

I really appreciate your reply JeanSWwhen you have all your physical and emotional trauma to deal with.   I hope you are feeling a lot better ?

I feel much better about anaesthetic for him now.
I also will only have the retained one removed, if it still hasn't dropped (I now live in hope).  I was thinking about around 18 months so wonder why you say 2-3 years?  I think I also worry more as his retained one can't be seen and I lost my Heidi to ovarian cancer that also couldn't be seen .

That little girl is lucky to have you- shocking how they sold her.

why not  find out about the homeopathic route . speak to ainsworths or helios it wont cost too much and certainly cant hurt and you never know the other may appear. I those two pharmacies scant help Nick Thompson or Chris Day should be able to if not one of the other homeopathic vets
Whether you belive in homeopathy or not you arnt doing harm either way

That's a good idea ff.  I got nosodes for Lepto on the basis it wouldn't do any harm and could do some good.  I think it's a bit late but you never know...

My thoughts exactly

> I was thinking about around 18 months so wonder why you say 2-3 years?

Breed related.  Border Collies don't reach maturity say, in comparison to Chihuahuas.  Just to say, I was gobsmacked at how tiny an incision was made to remove from the inguinal canal.  Healed in days.

Just to say, I was gobsmacked at how tiny an incision was made to remove from the inguinal canal.  Healed in days.

Thanks Jean very reassuring