Hi all

I have a gorgeous gundog breed male who will be 3 in October, he is a pedigree however, we were never given any papers when we bought him at 8 weeks old. I would ideally like to mate him at least once but I'm not sure how to go about this. I'd really appreciate any advice about the best way to go about starting the process as we have been considering this for a while but have only now started to look into properly.

Thanks

Amy

I would suggest you contact your boys breeder for advice in the first instance as  she is the only person who could possibly register him with the KC otherwise you are not going to get any interest from Breed enthusiasts just breeders of crossbreeds or pet quality stock. Nothing wrong with pet quality but less easy to find good  breeders. If you are able to register him then you need to look up the health tests recommended. Certainly hip scores and eyes and I would say as a minimum elbow scores as well.
Morally it is important that you ensure he passes on good stock and his health results are good. (Not a vet check but proper breed specific health testing)
Do you work him at all ?
Those people who will wish to use him will be considerable reduced if he does not excel in some form of competition to prove his worth.
Do remember as well that once used his sex drive will be much higher and it could possibly cause you problems in the future. Remember too that you are equally responsible for the health and welfare of his puppies and should be making sure they go to good forever loving homes.
Aileen

Hi Amy, I am also considering Breeding my First Litter but I am a Very Strong Believer in Good Breeding Practices and strongly urge you to have any required Tests done prior to any mating and also to ensure that the Mother has had these Tests. My understanding at this time is that the Breed has problems with Hips and Eyes and it is also advised to check for Elbow Dysplasia. I am a little unsure as to why you would like to Mate him, but if there is No Specific Reason could I advise that you do not. On average there are 120,000 Dogs handed in / rescued by the RSPCA alone and when you start to consider all the independent Rescue Sites then this number just goes higher and higher. Out of the 120,000 less than half find New Homes, with over 5,000 being put to sleep every year. 14 Healthy Dogs Every Day. Unless you have specific reasons for Breeding, then please don't. I am sure that you would not like one of your pups to be included in these statistics.

Just had a look on here for Golden Retriever stud dogs and found 179 to choose from.

Is it worth the hassle / expense ?

Even if he passes all the health tests with flying colours you might struggle to find any one wanting to use him.

I have had golden retrievers for years, but when I get a new puppy a lot of planning goes into the process.
Firstly I would want to see all the health tests for Goldens have been done and that the results were very good. These would be for hips, elbows and eyes, any further tests such as DNA or heart would be an added bonus. They would be for both parents, I would not consider buying a puppy from untested parents. Why? Because Goldens are prone particularly to hip dysplasia which could not only cost a lot to repair (if possible) but would be very painful to my dog. I want my new puppy to have the odds of good health firmly stacked on her side.
Secondly I would want to know why the bitch had been bred to your dog. Was he a show champion or was he a particularly good working dog doing well in trials.
Thirdly, and this is a very important point, I would want to know about the temperament of your dog and I would be looking back at your dogs pedigree to see who was in the lines. As your dog is not KC registered and you haven't a pedigree to show me, I would be forever wondering about the background of your dog, but even if he was a full pedigree golden retriever.

As has been mentioned above, what is the reason for you wanting to breed your golden? Do you just want a puppy from the litter? In that case it would much easier going back to your breeder to see if they are having another litter.
Using a dog for stud can change them and he may well be looking around for another bitch to mate with and trying to escape in order to find one. It can also lead to your dog marking indoors.

. As you haven't got papers it would be fair to assume he hasn't been registered as others have said which would be your first problem. Without all the correct health tests which arnt going to be cheap you are taking chances for any puppies and their owners. I wouldn't want to buy a pup that didn't come from registered health tested parents to many extra risks that arnt needed. I would aslo worry why anyone would want to put their bitch to a dog which has not proved himself in any field and also has no papers assuming of course that isnt an oversight which after 3 years would be odd   Why don't you just enjoy him and perhaps take up a hobby with him Goldie's are great in obedience and many do agility and other sports. Once he has been used at stud there is chance it will change his behaviours to included ones you don't want. Jodi has written an excellent post full of good advice sadly probably not what you wanted to hear though.

Hi Amy, I expect you have got the feeling that we would all advise you not to breed from your dog, I am sure he is lovely and a wonderful family pet but you need to have very sound reasons for passing on his genes, if you think that he would be somehow fulfilled by mating just once then think again.  If you do manage to get him registered and health tested and find a bitch owner that would like to use him then bear in mind that actually getting a mating is not always straightforward especially if you are not experienced in the process and if the bitch is also a maiden. Once he has had a bitch he may change towards other males, (it's not always the case) and he may do more peeing on things to mark his territory and advertise himself, he will almost certainly show more interest in all other dogs he meets as he checks out the possibilities for more mating.

I'm sure you will consider everything carefully and make the right decision for you and your dog, breeding shouldn't be done just because you can and he can absolutely live a great life without it

In a nutshell, dog owners do not go looking for bitches, rather bitch owners go looking for dogs. Responsible breeders will therefore look for fully health tested dogs that have proven themselves either in the field or the show ring or even better both. Irresponsible breeders will quite happily use a non health tested dog to just get some cute puppies to finance their new kitchen, or to create crossbreeds with silly names. Personally, I could not sleep at night if I didn't know that all pups sired by any of my dogs were all healthy and in carefully vetted homes. I have fully health tested show winning male dogs of both my breeds, and I have turned all stud enquiries down unless they were from established breeders I knew personally to be responsible. Just the thought of a pup from one of my dogs ending up in an unsuitable home, or even in a puppy farm, makes me really scared.

Years ago I had a similar thought, also with a Golden Retriever. I had a wonderful dog with great looks, had done some showing and gained the occasional placing, was a great retriever, from dual purpose wellknown lines. I had him hip scored when he was 6 and seemed fit as a fiddle. Turned out he had very severe hip dysplasia. So even fit and healthy looking dogs can hide serious problems, which can be passed on to their pups.

I understand where you are coming from. You have a nice dog and would like to produce puppies from him.
All I can say is that as a breeder and show person on the committee of our breed club, one of the questions I am asked from time to time is how do I get my dog used at stud ( my mouth drops as I cannot really understand there question ) this is because as the owner of a bitch, I research and travel hundreds of miles for the right dog to complement my bitch.
They do not usually live round the corner.
As the owner of a dog, in a highly competitive breed ( mine isn't) for stud work, the only way is for you to find a bitch owner who might want to use your dog. That is the plain fact.
Now if you owned a bitch, the answers would at least be different as the power might be in your hands with a health tested bitch because ( it sounds like) there are a myriad of stud dog owners, probably happy to use their dog with your bitch for a fee. It simply does not work the other way around in the same way.
I have had a number of people who have had a dog from me who have asked the same question and it is only when I point out that you can't use any old dog and the power is not in their hands that they seem to understand.

Apart from whether or not he's an outstanding example of his breed, with significant wins in whatever you do with him to support that, you really don't want to let him be used at stud, even once, because once Pandora's Box is opened, he will be looking for the next bitch which, unless he is a top winning dog of his breed, won't be the there.   I know it sounds negative, but really.   Right now, what he doesn't 'know' he isn't missing.

You would need to get the non-breeding endorsement all good breeders put on immature stock they sell as pets, lifted - no endorsement?   Then with respect, he may not be from good bloodlines much as I'm sure you love him.  With our first hound, we were convinced we had the next Crufts BIS on our hands.   Of course, we didn't!   He should have his Hips and Elbows scored too, remembering that the owner of the stud dog is 50% responsible for the puppies he might sire.

And further, without the paperwork, nobody with a good quality bitch will be interested in using him because they can't register the puppies with the KC.   And to do that yourself, you'd need the registration numbers of his sire and dam, at least.    Assuming they were KC registered!

Again I'm really not trying to be negative, but you would be way better to just keep him as the much loved pet I'm sure he is.

Amy I have a lot of dogs all living in the house.  I have entire males, some have never mated a bitch.  The males that are super stud dogs, one Yorkshire Terrier and one Long Coat Chihuahua, both cock their legs indoors.  Stud dogs are always going to try and "protect" their territory, marking to give out messages to other males.  My boys are tiny.  Can you imagine how much wee a Goldie can spread around?

Just pointing out other possible problems, apart from the ones that others have posted.  I would urge you to rethink, especially if you love the temperament of your boy.  Don't risk him changing.  Just love him. 

I understand where you're coming from Amy, but why do you want to breed from him? It's not nice for dog owners to hear it, but dogs are not irreplaceable - if your dog doesn't breed, the breed will not die out. There are hundreds of others who could produce better puppies (they are health-tested, registered, etc). If you breed from your dog you will only be adding the puppies to the long list of unregistered dogs in the country.

There are hundreds of others who could produce better puppies (they are health-tested, registered, etc). If you breed from your dog you will only be adding the puppies to the long list of unregistered dogs in the country.

How can you possibly know this?    Do  you have intimate knowledge of this dog, or are you making assumptions?  Others have questioned these things but have not made any assumptions.

Responsible dog owners only breed to improve the breed, hence the need for health testing. Impartial assessment of type, temperament & character & also a knowledge of the bloodlines in the breed, so that only suitable dogs are bred together to ensure that the gene pool is kept as open as possible & not inbred.

Responsible stud dog owners are very selective over the bitches that are brought to their dog, hence the need for a good knowledge of the breed bloodlines.

If your dog is 3 years old & not KC registered, not health tested, not shown or worked, how do you know that the breed needs your dogs genetic input to improve ????

If the breeder did mot register your dog, I don't think that he can be registered after 3 years, late registrations are allowed up to 1 year after his birth

Actually up to a year a litter can be registered at the normal cost of just £16 a puppy. So not a huge cost, so it is more likely the litter could not be registered.

There are usually only bad reasons why a litter can't be registered.

One or both parents may be unregistered, bitch too young, too old, or had too many litters, or parents first degree relatives ( full siblings or parent and offspring).

Could be parents had restrictions on papers to prevent puppies being registered, done by responsible breeders to encourage owners to health test before breeding, or to discourage breeding if the individual is unsuitable.

Parental may not have been in ownership of breeder, even one of the many dogs stolen each year.

All reasons NOT TO BUY AN UNREGISTERED PUPPY.

A dog can be registered( only by it's breeder) after a year for a much higher  fee, but it is highly likely if he  is registerable then it would have been done when he was a puppy.

How can you possibly know this?    Do  you have intimate knowledge of this dog, or are you making assumptions?  Others have questioned these things but have not made any assumptions.

The OP did say they did not have any "papers" for their dog. Hence pups would be unregistered.

Well the op hasn't been back since and until she's contacts her lads breeder we are all just guessing.

Think its all been said, maybe time to lock the thread and move on.

The owner has already admitted that they haven't looked into it properly. If that is not a case against breeding their dog, I don't know what is! Champdogs is meant to be a place where responsible breeders advertise, isn't it? Surely the breeders on this website could produce better puppies as most are willing to health test and temperament test their dogs first.

If, however, the owner will do it all properly, then I support them wholeheartedly :)