So yesterday I suddenly became aware that my bitch was in season. I was not expecting this for another 6 weeks approx. so was a bit shocked.
I wonder of she has been brought in early by her daughter's first season.
Anyway I am not sure which way to go. She missed to an unproven dog on her last season. This will be the last time I mate her.
I have not blood tested for some years since a wasted trip when in my heart I felt my bitch at the time was not ready.
I mentioned when she missed that I had recently lost my neutered boy who had always been a great source of signs.
Did I miss the first day as I was not even looking to be honest? Should I use another method, other than my Draminski which is incredibly hard to read. Is there another method than blood testing? I'd really appreciate your input. I have made contact already with the desired, very much proven dog ( the owner of course!)

I would always use my (very experienced) stud dog to tell me when a bitch was ready.  No way would he waste his energy if a bitch wasn't ready.  The shame is of course, that once he had told me, I would whizz my bitch off to my chosen sire.  If the boy you're using is well proven he should know his job.  Any chance of the boy coming to you?

No - not at all. He is a Champion dog living, not at the end of the country but a fair journey away.
Exactly what you said, my boy was almost as good as an un-neutered dog but sadly passed away in December so now only have the 4 girls.
That is why I am more concerned as already missed early this year!

In that case, if it was me in your position, I would definitely progesterone test.  You are stuck between a rock and a hard place really.

Sorry not to be more helpful.

Being blood testing as the only method? Sorry to sound dim?

The only RELIABLE method.  IMHO

As was the case with us when the stud dog we wanted to use was 12 hours away, by road, we waited until I felt my bitch was ready, and set off, planning on staying down there for a few days.    I have never tested by any other means than what I saw, and by my own males.

I'd do the same with your bitch and stud dog, fwiw.    And if necessary leave her with the owner of the stud dog as long as you trust them - no kiddin, I left mine with a breeder once and swear she was probably never put to the dog, but couldn't prove it other than she had no puppies.   NOT repeated!!

They have offered to keep her and they are one of the top kennels in the country BUT this is not the sort of dog that would be happy if left so I think it would not help the situation.
I tried to get vet apt to-day - all full with my preferred vet. Am going to tomorrow and will discuss.
One of the reasons I am thinking blood tests this time is last time she did not seem to swell up that much and apart from not having my boy, her season generally was not as previous seasons in as much as not the swollen look, not much blood dropping generally. Not really much tail swishing.
I just found her really hard to read signs.

I should have just added, yes, bitches can 'bring each other in'.   So the fact you have another bitch in season could have brought the other(s) in.   But 6 weeks early is early!!   And on that basis, you might be well advised to get her tested, for that reason alone.

If she's the kind that might be stressed being away from home, then unfortunately you may have to rely on testing rather than leaving her or go with her and stay locally?

I think I have decided for only the 2nd time  time in years to go ahead with blood testing.
If her season is anything like the last I am sure I will not be able to read her right myself.

Can anyone say whether it is normal for a bitch in season not to show any sign of being swollen?

One of mine hardly swelled at all, yet was mated first time with a litter of 9 and had two further litters but was less swollen than some not in season.

My current youngster had a tiny baby puppy vulva that you could hardly find in her coat by the time she was in season for the first time and she hardly swelled and is still very underdeveloped there for a bitch that ahs had a season, and I hope with her second season she will develop a bit more as she sis till very infantile in that area though not as before.

In fact most of mine are very neat, and don't show a huge amount of swelling, more pigmentation of the area less black due to increased blood supply in area I assume.

Thank you. So obviously it is not relevant to fertility.
My memory is poor and I think it is just that her daughter has been in season as I said and seemed enormous.
I have to take one of my others later to the vet later and will take her with me as have arranged some extra time for a chat about her.

I have twice have bitches come in season with a false start/split because another brought them in.

In fact Lexi ended up going to the stud at 14 days only to stop and stayed there a month until she was back in and on track, and was mated and had her last litter.

She had missed on the previous season, and this was return visit aimed at a pup for stud owner, but she would happily have moved in with stud owners breeder.

So testing may give you an idea of what is going on.

> My memory is poor and I think it is just that her daughter has been in season as I said and seemed enormous

You have just reminded me of a very tiny bitch that I saw advertised as a brood.  I was livid, knowing how unlikely it would be that the vaginal canal would be wide enough.  So, bloody great softie that I am, I bought her so I could have her spayed.  But even with bitches I've never bred from, I like to allow a few seasons first.  On her 3rd season, the one that I had decided to spay 12 weeks later.  Remember, she was very tiny.  I swear that her foo foo swelled to equal the size of her head.

Sorry to lower the tone Hazenaide but you just brought that so vividly to mind! 

LOL
Well I have discussed and going back to the vet tomorrow. As I say I had to take one of my others anyway so killed two birds with one stone.
In my ignorance I did not know the kit had to be out of the chiller for at least an hour.
Early discussion but he said they read the test results in house. He is a pretty experienced vet so I would place my faith in him.
He said you could be  looking at a couple of tests????
I do also still have my Draminski and may well start testing with that although last time, with her, the Draminski gave me no helpful signs at all. I just thought it might be worth doing in conjunction or at least it would do no harm.

> He said you could be  looking at a couple of tests????

Yup, it can work out expensive, depending on when they ovulate.  I had a bitch that I'd been unable to get in whelp.  I mentioned to my vet that her seasons were exceedingly short.  He said that if that's the case, we need to test her AS SOON AS SHE STARTS TO SWELL.  Doing this we found that she ovulated on day 4!!!  I didn't know it could happen that early.  But the stud dog didn't fancy her - I only tried the once.  I thought long and hard, but much as I loved  the bitch I had to remind myself that this was a fertility problem.  Easy to breed in faults that are not known without an added known fault.

Yes, it's testing more than once, and continues until she's there so to speak.  I had unrivalled failures with my Draminksi before I parted with it. 

I have used it many times but as I now realise success was in conjunction with still having my dear departed boy.
I just thought I might as well use it again and in conjunction with testing. Everything helps!

> just thought I might as well use it again and in conjunction with testing. Everything help

At a lecture by a respected canine reproduction specialists when asked about the Draminski and other things like the saliva slides and ovulation pads she stated categorically that any indication they worked was purely coincidental.  The Draminski was designed for Cattle (very different reproductive cycles), and the other two definitely aren't reliable methods.

If there was an easier way then we wouldn't be taking blood from the bitches.

The in-house tests are not as accurate as proper quantative ELISA blood sampling but will give you ballpark for natural service.  As results available in few hours can work out more convenient.

Only time I used it I had three tests and cost £50 each, and that was in 2003!

The in house kit will not give you quite so clear picture as sending the bloods off... I would feel tempted to send at least the first blood off to know exactly where she is at... as if really low and nowhere near ovulating, you probably won't have to test so soon again.
We are lucky to have 2 vets within 30 minures from us who get us results the same day, not next day like sending off to idexx so might even be worth calling larger practises on the area to see if there is possibility of same day result near by

Brainless I still pay £50 for progesterone testing :-) so either price nor increased much or you were ripped off

He quoted me £43 which I thought was not bad.

but if you need three or more tests it may be more cost effective to simply travel and board your bitch with the stud.

My bitch hated the blood draws and for the rest of her life was not happy visiting the Vets, she'd greet the vet and then want to rush straight out again. 

Another bitch of mine would not stay still fro a blood draw and had to be sedated, and that was for Rabies titre, so I would not want to progesterone test routinely.

Mmmm - at the moment my girl - or any of my girls have a problem at the vets.
I'll see how it all goes later to-day. She just simply is not the type of dog you could leave.
I think she would more of a problem with being left than the vets but I could well be proved wrong of course.

> I think she would more of a problem with being left than the vets but I could well be proved wrong of course.

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You would laugh, my Safi right (from a pup) would get quite wimpy if any male dog sniffed her rear.  At shows she would squeak and sit tigh on hr bum.

when it came to her first litter I really thought I would need to be hands on and reassure her a lot more than is usual.

I took her by train to Scotland.  she was great on the train,  with 4 changes, waiting at platforms with trains leaving platforms and blowing their horns etc, even though she had never been near a station.

We arrived at the stud dog owners who opened the front door and the dog came running out, and promptly mated her within seconds.

Each morning I took her out for a wee brought dog out and she was a proper slapper, stood stock still too (unlike her mother who hated the tie and would roll if not held).

She has had another litter and a miss (older dog not used for years) since, these times staying away without me and was happy as larry, and a right tart.

Have had first test done which thankfully shows she is a way off. Thankfully because it could mean I was closer in touch with day 1 than I knew.
It says test again in 2 days. Mu vet and I discussed and I will not test again that soon. Draminski ( I am keeping a chart) also show a way off and I am thinking more towards the middle of the week unless there are other signs.
If I did get the start of the season and if her earlier pregnancy is anything to go by, I am looking earliest the week after next but I will see how all  the reading go!!! There a lot of ifs are there not!

The standard advice is to test every other day until you get an imminent reading, and then I'd every day.

As you say as you have past history you can probably afford to wait until closer to likely day.