We've recently moved to a large property so need to drastically improve our dogs recall - they're OKish but nowhere near as good as they need to be with the outdoor soace we've got.

They're very keen on clicker training and I'm using that to improve their recall - the only problem is, I'm not sure when to click!

Can anyone help?

(The next large task will be to train them to stop barking at the roos in the next field!)

when they are doing what you want ie coming back is the short answer then treat. Only click when the dog is doing the action you want. You should prime the clicker with a few actions they already do well. eg dog sits , you click and treat this is so they get the  thought of I sit then I hear a click and I get a treat. oh I like sitting I get a treat

Once they understand that I would start on the recall . so call them as they know the command already, they start coming back you click they get treat. I would start over a very short distance so they can always get it right then extend further. Hope that makes some sort of sense although I am sure others will be able to explain better

As soon as they've turned and are heading back to you, then encourage them the rest of the way with actions and peppy voice.

For the barking - have a look at the 'engage-disengage' game:

http://www.clickertraining.com/images/content/the-engage-disengage-game.png

For reactive dogs, and absolutely brilliant.  I use it for quite a few things, including barking at stuff!  And, I use it for recall too, if there's a specific thing that they are harder to recall from.  For me it's usually dogs, so I use it around dogs and turn them into a recall cue all by themselves - gives me a much higher chance of a recall if my guys already know that they are going to be rewarded for turning away from a dog!

I would seriously consider fencing a part of the outdoor area as the dogs toileting (lot easier for the poo patrol) and every day let out area for unsupervised time. 

This needs to be small enough so that commands are enforceable quickly, especially the barking (I have a breed than can be very vocal if not kept on top of).

it is also useful in bad weather and a small area can be laid to gravel, concreted etc to help keep the house clean.

The main area can then be used for supervised play, and you'll get more use fo ti as ti will be seen as a treat and they will then exercise etc.

Even in my town garden (60 x 25 feet) my dog only get the first 15 feet, and the rest is by invitation only.

I disagree with those that say you should click when the dog turns or when it is on the way back.  If you do the former, what happens when the dog then decides to go off and have a sniff of something before it gets to you? You clicked the dog for the turn, so you have to reward, but the dog has still not returned to you!  If you do the latter, as far as the dog is concerned  are you clicking for the fact that it is trotting or the fact that it is cantering/galloping or the fact that it had one eye shut or the fact that it had its tail up etc etc? :)

Having established the concept of the clicker with a dog I teach the snout nudge to the back of my outstretched hand - easily done initially by smearing primula cheese on the back of your hand..  The outstretched arm with back of hand presented becomes my visual cue for recall.  I teach, visual, verbal and then whistle cues.  (New cue, old cue remember when switching!)

HTH

But I teach the recall with the dog beside me to begin with - would never start it from a distance. I click the head turn to begin with and gradually build up the distance between myself and the dog. By the time there was any great distance between myself and the dog the clicker would have been phased out anyway.
Rather like teaching a downstay - I don't move away from the dog at all to begin with and distance and duration is built up over time.

I do also use a whistle and an arm movement too so my dogs will respond to different "commands" depending on where they are being walked - the latter being really useful for my older dog whose hearing isn't what it used to be.

The reason I like clicker training is because you can reward the tiniest of movements towards your ultimate goal and the dog uses it's brain to work out what is required of it before a command is introduced.

> I disagree with those that say you should click when the dog turns or when it is on the way back.

When would you click then?  The click is there to tell the dog that it's done exactly what you are after: turning and heading back to you is what you ask for in a recall.

You can change when you click as training progresses - click for the turn initially (and as I said before, encourage the dog all the way back to keep the momentum), then when the dog is nearer, then when the dog has arrived.

You can go straight to the last bit but I find that to begin with, that isn't enough to motivate a novice dog - as with any behaviour, you've got to build it in increments, not go straight for the finished produce right away.

Still, it's all horses for courses.  The above works well for me in combo with the E/D-E game I mentioned, and with foundation work starting at home to build up lots of successful repetitions before taking it on a walk.  I also start any recall with a basic exercise of pairing the cue with food before I do anything else 9same method as charging the clicker, just with the cue instead of the click).

As described above I teach the snout nudge to the back of my outstretched hand.  So - as you do - to begin with the dog is in the same room as me a couple of feet away; I click when its snout touches the back of my hand - accomplished by luring initially with primula cheese or similar if you don't have the time/inclination to do free-shaping.  Primula cheese/pate is enough to motivate most dogs when you are stood a couple of feet away until such time the behaviour has been taught, I have found!  :)

I then build distance and add distractions.  This way the dog only gets rewarded for the completion of the required task - coming back to me. Turning and heading back to me is not sufficient in my book; the exercise I want is for the dog to end up by my feet. 
Out of interest if you click for the dog turning, how do you work it if the dog has been lagging behind you on a walk but is actually facing you??  Or do you use a different cue in that situation?

> Out of interest if you click for the dog turning, how do you work it if the dog has been lagging behind you on a walk but is actually facing you??  Or do you use a different cue in that situation?

Cicking for the head turn is only done at the very beginning of the recall training so the dog wouldn't be lagging behind you on a walk with you trying to click the appropriate behaviour. My clicker training is done using tiny increments of behaviour extending the time before I click. So when starting out I might click the head turn and reward that - then over the course of a few sessions the dog would turn it's head but I wouldn't click until the dog was starting to turn it's whole body. After that the click would only be used once the dog had turned it's full body or had taken a step towards me. This would all be done at a close distance - either dog beside me or just a step or two away.

As the dog offers more behaviours - as in whole body turn, stepping towards you etc - the clicker is used as the dog is doing the next step of the process. Each process being broken down into tiny steps - as those steps are chained together you then click just the last step not each and every one of the steps.

I personally don't think recall is the best example of explaining how I use the process but I do teach tricks with a clicker. For instance one of my dogs will drop to the floor and roll on his back with all four legs stuck straight up in the air if I make a "gun" with my fist and say "bang". When he was doing a 360degree roll on the floor I clicked when his feet were in the air as he was rolling  - clicker is quick and exactly pinpoints the behaviour you are requesting - and it took him two attempts to realise that I wanted him to stop mid roll flat on his back with his legs in the air.  I then introduced a word for that behaviour and then backchained the rest of the sequence - the drop to the floor etc. Once he has learnt the command for that trick I no longer use the clicker just the cue word.

I click when my dog has reached top speed returning to me, but definitely after he starts out and before he arrives.  This seems to have worked very well for my dog, and gives him the message that he should RUN TO MUM.  I reinforce recall with AMAZING treats (raw mince, which i won't deny, is messy on walks).