Morning guys I am in need of your advice I have had a couple of weeks from hell and need some logical advice. I have 2 flat nose toy breeds whom we decided to breed one ended in a c section due to a vaginal prolapse but the other one im starting to worry a little about. She has only ever had one litter whom she self whelped at day 58 and never had any problems. She is currently day 62 from first mating ive had her progestrone tested yesterday and they said she will not go in labour in the next 48 hrs and they also scanned her and said pups seem fine. She is very large so uncomfortable and has been losing clear discharge for about 3 days now. However here is my quiery, initially she had 2 matings 48hrs apart when i took her for her 4 week scan i was told she wasnt pregnant, at 7 weeks i was going out my mind as i know my girls and knew she was pregnant so took her to a different vets who comfirmed she was in deed pregnant. When i confronted the previous vets they said she must be a week behind as sperm can live for a week and they wud have seen it on the scan. My first question is what is the chances of this by monday shes day 64 from first mating i dont want to get her c sectioned incase she is a week behind and i lose the litter but at the same time i dont want to leave her incase something is wrong and lose the litter either. Any help wud be appreciated xx

First of all that's why I don't bother with all this scanning.   Preferring to get a good mating, or maybe two, and wait.   By 7 weeks the situation should be clearly obvious in any case.   I know people say they need to know to make their own arrangements, but when we did our litters, that was the case anyway.   I was lucky enough to be able to be fully committed to doing a litter.

Secondly yes, I understand you are in a difficult situation not knowing when she conceived - I'd suggest that although sperm does live for a while after mating, I'd suggest not for a week.   

Personally, although the puppies continue growing if they sit beyond the 'due date', meaning a C.Section is more likely to be needed, I don't think you can do anything until she starts having contractions much as again if nothing happened with mine after 2 days beyond the due date counting from the first mating, I had mine into my vet to be examined.  At which point they were usually given a shot to get things moving and if this didn't 'work', then my vet would go in - do a C.Section.

I guess you could have your bitch x-rayed to see the size of the puppies now, if nothing else?

Just to add, you do need to find a vet you can trust!!

Thank you for your reply can I just ask do you let yours go to 65 days then give them 2 days lee-way and do you count from first or second mating as i know everyone is different. My vet said if i was 100 per cent with the mating dates which i am as i keep a diary they wud be more than happy to do a c section but i dont want to jump in incase she has taken later than exspected he told me a story that 2 weeks ago a owner had taken there dog to the vets and demanded a c section they had progestrone tested and said the bitch wud not go into labour within 48hrs but the owner was adament with the dates so they went ahead and the litter died due to not been viable so this has worried me alot then equally i have read on this site people leaving toy breeds  who go a litter over due and losing the litter to im not sure what to do.

As you have had the reverse progesterone I would say that she isn't ready (well not when it was done) and it is very likely you mated too early, and on average sperm is really good for about 4 days, with the negative scan too making it seem likely.

My breed tend to go before day 63 (usually day 61) from first mating, but I had one bitch only have one mating and when palpated at day 28 the vet was sure she wasn't as far along as that so we didn't panic when she went 4 days over.

What did we do before scanning?  We waited for the bitch to get ready to whelp and dealt with any problems as they arose, I am really happy that your bitch self whelped and there would seem no reason why she should not do so again, why not hang on until you think she is ready, you obviously have experience. I think possibly your first vet was covering his back as he did not see puppies on the scan!

As said, I counted from the first mating, knowing that conception may not have taken place immediately.   And if they'd gone over by more than 2 days, see my vet and let her make the decision whether to go in, or not.   Bearing in mind mine often felt a slight twinge and go into what was secondary inertia.    My vet would, depending on what she saw, give a shot to hopefully get things moving, and if nothing happened, then proceed to a Section.   Again as said, I didn't want the puppies sitting, getting too big to even hope for a natural whelping.   Mine tended to be around 18 oz at birth, which was plenty big enough for my breed.

I have to say each situation was unique so much as I appreciate where you are with this, I can only suggest you be advised by a vet you can trust, and on how your bitch is.    I'd want x-ray so your vet should be able to see the status of the puppies.   I'd suggest they'd have to be very premature not to survive.

"What did we do before scanning?  We waited for the bitch to get ready to whelp and dealt with any problems as they arose"

EXACTLY!!

The fact the vet even knows about reverse progesterone testing would make me think they had some reasonable idea what they were doing re this bitch and would go with what they advise.

With luck the bitch has started labour 

i dont want to get her c sectioned incase she is a week behind and i lose the litter

A litter born a week early (day 56) should be just fine -not at all uncommon for pups to be born that day.

I had a bitch clearly in labour but no pushing.....she had gone on like this for a lot of hours. My other half was worried  (I wasn't as she was not in any distress) so we went to vet. They did the progesterone and said not in labour. I laughed coz she clearly was. Took her home and within 10 minutes of walking in the house she had her first pup.

Sorry but I would never trust them.