Pups are now 3.5wks and are all doing well.

In the last 2 days, mum has been much less willing to feed them.  I know this might be because I am weaning and because their teeth are coming in, but she has been in the box maybe once each day around 1pm. I don't know how much she's going in at night.

Last night, at 11pm, before I went to bed and after after she hadn't been in there since 1pm, I asked her to get in. She did but she wanted to get right out again without feeding. If she sat down and any pups latched on, she'd stand up so they'd fall off.

I have started weaning but I don't think they are getting much food from eating yet. Yesterday I just gave 2 meals but when I saw how reluctant mum was to go in there, I gave 4 today. They are eating well in a very slow noisy messy way but there is food left when they stop.

Mum has been a bit whiney and restless - could her boobs be hurting her because they are full but she doesn't want puppies with teeth to get at them??  (All have hard gums with teeth underneath and some have teeth coming through.). Is there anything I can do? They don't look red or inflamed or sore, just quite full. Last night she was leaking milk whilst lying on the vet bed, after refusing to go in the box and feed(!).

Is it normal for weaning to be quite sudden like this, I thought it would be a much more gradual and drawn out process of slowly more food and less mum? Does all I'm saying sound ok?

Mine would still be feeding pups after every meal at this age. So I feed four meals a day and bitch finishes remaining puppy food and then gives them a top up for " dessert". The also feed on and off at other times of day as well and of course at night.

No, I wouldn't be happy with once a day at this age. Even though pups will be eating solids well it sounds like your bitch isuncomfortable. If she's leaking milk from hard glands she's congested which is not a serious as mastitis but do need emptying by pups... Warm flannels to soften glands and encouraging her to feed will help. When they first latch it will hurt her but will soon give her relief.

Her behaviour of feeding once a day and jumping out when they try to feed sounds more like mine would behave when pups are five weeks with needle teeth and really pulling on her but wouldn't expect it yet.... I think it's down to discomfort

Have you cut the nails recently, as that combined with teeth might be putting her off a little, but certainly mien will feed after each of the 4 meals (Mum gets to polish off so it's a bity of an incentive).

Mine will often be like this at about 4 1/2 weeks, for about a week, so milk partially dries and then they are much more into the pups once they get the message they only suckle when Mum says.

Hmm, thanks.

Last night I body blocked her when she tried to get out the box and we had a bit of a stand off with her refusing to sit or lie down and me refusing to let her out until she had. Eventually she did, and she then let them feed.

I just didn't know how much to intervene and "tell" her what to do and how much to leave it up to her.

She will put her head over the edge of the box to clean up the plate and go in the box to eat dropped food from the plate, but when she does that, she won't lie down.

Right, off to feed everyone and will attempt to ask her to lie down again...

> she won't lie down.

at this age mine will be feeding sitting, and by 4 weeks standing.

She won't sit either!  She deliberately stands if she goes in the box so they can't reach her!

Well, I just got her to feed them - it took 3 ginormous chunks of cheese to lure her into a down and keep her there whilst she licked it in my hands but the pups got a pretty good feed and most of them had finished and were wandering off.  She really didn't seem to like it when they first latched on, but then she relaxed a bit and was happier.  Before she got in there, her boobs were so big some of her nipples were almost inverted and milk was coming out. 

I just don't get why she was such an amazing mum the first 2 weeks and hardly wanted to leave the box, and spent almost all night with them too, but now has become like this... It does coincide with me introducing food - it's like she thinks it's down to me now(!). 

I have trimmed their nails every week since a week old...

Leave her to it and let her decide. I've had bitches refusing to feed the pups again from 3-4 weeks of age. Others that never stopped. All are different.

Mine is still going in and feeding around 5 to 6 times a day and I am actually only feeding 3 times a day at the moment as we only started 4 days ago. Mum was sitting in to feed them but now she can stand and they sit under her and feed. She is content to lie with them now that they aren't in the box anymore and will come and get me if she thinks its time she got in the pen. I am leaving the door slightly ajar but sometimes she shuts it when she leaves and can't get in by herself.

Have to say that my other girl (proper career mum) was having to be forced in to the pen at this point and would only feed the pups if the husband took on that no nonsense tone and made her do a 'down stay'. Then she knew he meant business. This girl spent all of last night in with the pups without complaint. The other girl had to be put in twice during the night to top up the pups at this age. Tiring job this puppy growing :)

I think she is congested which will be blimmin painful when they first latch and give her a lot of relief when they have emptied her.... Will coincide with weaning as they won't be drinking quite so much so ..... I wouldn't leave her congested as could lead to mastitis ....even just a quick suckle will take the pressure off . Don't force her to let the pups completely empty her.... This will only lead to her bagging right up again and not decreasing her milk supply... They usually go and feed pups to relieve this pressure but if it gets too bad and uncomfortable can put them off. She will gradually produce less as they eat more solidsc

Ok, so it's a bit of a vicious circle - she doesn't feed them enough, so her boobs hurt, and then because they hurt, she doesn't want to feed them...

Goldmali - well, that's exactly what I mean, I didn't know how much this was just her way of doing things and how much something was wrong and needed my intervention. 

The pups are not very good at eating yet, they are all trying their best and making eating noises but it seems to take about 30 minutes for them to stand all over the mush and lick it so I'm not confident they can get all they need from solids yet - which is my worry in terms of just leaving her to it.  As well as her boobs...  The pups are all very plump looking and don't look at all malnourished...

I will keep going with luring her in after meals, but I also won't make her stay there until empty...

gsdowner, we also only started solids about 3 days ago, and that's why yesterday I only fed 2 meals - I only went up to 4 meals today because I saw how little she wanted to feed them.  I think she feeds them more during the night than the day (and always has), but I'm not sure why that is.  Maybe she thinks it's my department in the day!!

Slightly non-related question...

I just found one pup chowing down on a poo in the litter tray!! I removed it of course. I've noticed a few of them showing an interest in poop and one of them even sniffing/licking the bum of another as if to get a sibling to toilet(!).

Is this normal? I'm removing all poos I see, mum is still eating most of them, but inevitably some get left....

Totally normal! As you've done just try your best to be on top of the cleaning.
Re mum not feeding...keep trying to encourage her for another week two if you can. My lab bitch likes to completely walk away at 5 weeks that's her switch off point...your job now mum!! My Staffy is starting to want to do the same and hers are now 5 weeks too. It's a nice age for them to be going it more or less alone with mum maybe popping in a few times a day!
Good luck

I would be VERY concerned if Mum stopped feeding at 3.5 weeks.  But maybe it's a breed thing, so don't get upset.  My cotons feed their babies until they haven't a single drop left!  It's up to them, I don't interfere.  Mum'll feed them at, say, 8 weeks, they take what they can, and then they ALL (Mum included) gobble up the breakfast (or lunch or whatever) out of the dish together.  This encourages the pups to eat "real" food, as they will imitate Mum.

Oh, and about the puppies eating pooh:   My two puppies (the other three have gone to their new homes) LOVE to eat pooh.  Yuck.  And it makes it even more difficult to get this soft-poop thing I am struggling with right now under control.  But it is almost impossible to avoid, as you cannot have them under observation ALL the time.  I feel so defeated when I discover a place (on the paper or floor or wherever) where a poop "was"....  just the signs of it still there. 

How are you feeding them Rabid? I am feeding mine in individual plates and taking them out in 2 sets of 2 and one set of 3. So that they are learning to eat and not walk all over it. It take about 10 minutes to get through each sitting and I push the food towards them on the plates so that they do not need to step in it to get to the rest of it. By this time next week, I will be able to feed all 7 together without them stepping in it and eating it all. Currently they are managing about 2 tbsp each. By doing it this way I can monitor how much they're eating, who is struggling or leaving it and who needs more.

I am also using the word 'wait' for those waiting for their sitting and they will know it as a training word by 6 weeks old.

This worked really well last time round and the puppies learned to eat of their own bowls, not steal from others and there wasn't any growling etc going on. I also stick to a schedule time wise so they know when it's meal times.

Fun isn't it, this weaning stage?

My last litter started eating poo and my breed is notorious for it. I was vigilant and got them all during the day but thought it really strange when I got up each morning to a spotless pen until it dawned on my that they were eating it! I just added pineapple to their diet at 5 weeks old and it stopped completely within days.

Poo eating for me seems to come in litters.... Some do and some litters don't. They will watch and copy Mum when she eats their poo.

Ok, I guess I don't mind much the poo eating as long as it's a phase or something they only do in the litter - I don't want to raise a litter of coprophagic puppies with other dogs' poo! If it continues I'll add pineapple in another week when they can eat better.

I have both those communal flying saucer things in 2 sizes and I have the individual food bowls. I thought I'd start with the communal bowl till they get how to eat and then move to the individual bowls.

Last night I noticed mum had one big nipple left - like they hadn't managed to reach that one when I lured her with cheese. So I did it again before bed and made sure that one got milked down a bit too. At 4am I heard lots of squeaks and I checked the camera on the box to see that she had got back in of her own accord and was feeding them.

That is great! Sounds like she was just congested which can make them quit feeding because of the pain when pups latch. You have overcome this by encouraging her to let them and she will feel a lot happier now. You know what to do if it happens again :) just watch for any that just will not go down after a feed.

I've had this when I've had a not particularly large litter and the bitch prefers to feed on one side only..... The glands underneath sometimes don't get used and get congested. Not a problem now she's feeding sitting up,but for next time with younger pups its a good idea to ensure bitch feeds from alternate sides of its not going to stress her out too much

Well, she always did go in at night more than in the day.  It's like at night, I'm asleep and off-duty, but in the day it's supposed to be my department to feed them!!!

This morning they seemed ravenous when I got up and were screaming and running about everywhere, and she just looked at me like 'can you deal with this please?' when I came in the kitchen!!

She wasn't keen to go in this morning either, so after I fed the pups breakfast, I lured her in again with cheese and topped them up - but I didn't make her stay there until they'd had their fill as I do want her to start making less if she's going to be like this.

Before now, she's been good about getting all nipples milked down - the pups seek out the ones that still had milk in - but since she's not wanted to feed them, she is leaping out a bit too soon before they've had a chance to find the other nipples.

Just plod on ,day by day without over stressing anyone. As long as pups are feeding both solids and a milk top up and keep an eye on congested glands you'll soon be over this bit. Can be a tricky time around 3 weeks, height of milk production, teeth coming, pups eating solids, congested full glands. I have in the past if I was sure the pups were getting enough warmed glands with flannels and gently milked a bit off if they got hard and she wasn't keen to feed,just takes the pressure off but don't empty gland as it will only encourage it to refill. Some bitches literally drip milk they make so much and are harder to dry up than others. You don't want to dry her up,yet just keep her comfortable so she keeps nursing

Great, thanks!

Well, she is a mystery really   These past few days, she can sometimes have ginormous boobs which worry me and yet be absolutely refusing to feed them for anything except a chunk of cheese to eat whilst doing a down stay and at other times, they will all be fast asleep and happy and she will have just fed them a couple of hours ago, and she will disappear off and be found feeding them again - unasked for and voluntarily

A couple of nights ago, they were all awake and screaming and hungry at 4am, so I got up and there she was, lying on her bed outside the weaning pen and looked at me like 'hi there...what noise?' - that was a chunk of cheese down stay night, so I could go back to bed

The pups are doing a good job of drinking the Royal Canin milk they get 4x a day, but they are less good about eating the solids which are mushed into it and they will still act like they are starving when mum appears.  But they are all really plump and no worries about them.

You know, that bit you said about your female seeming to prefer feeding her pups at night?  I was kind of amazed when I had to get up in the night for whatever reason and come downstairs (for instance if Rini had waked me up and needed to go out and poop), and I discovered that Nimue seemed to be living a sort of secret life with her puppies, totally relaxed and obviously enjoying being with them and feeding them.  It was so different than in the day time.  I think she really felt good when she knew that she was alone with them and could just relax and enjoy.  She just kind of looked at me and smiled.  It was touching, and I was impressed.  This was from about the age of 4 weeks, and they were out of the box and in their enclosure, which is in the main room of my house.

Yes, that's exactly what it's like Nimue, she sort of looks at me and smiles and looks even a bit 'caught out', although I've never told her not to be in there with them (except for when I'm feeding them!). 

I suspect that some nights she just lies with them all night, actually.  During the day she just pops in a couple of times!  As long as her boobs are ok and her pups are ok, I don't mind really, it's just funny.

This is exactly what mine are like. I have a cctv set up and have next to my bed or sofa so I can hear and see any trouble in the night. Very often at night I would see her lying on her back in the box with pups climbing all over her for several hours, often spending most of the night in with them, whereas during the day she would leave it all up to me. Sometimes I think we try to step in too much and the bitch then leaves it up to us to keep us happy but they will be there when we are not and pups need them . Maybe a sign to back off a bit and trust they know best however hard.