I am waiting for a call back from the vet.

One of my pups - the one failing to gain like her siblings might have been constipated. She was trying to poop and mum was trying to help her but she seemed really uncomfortable and didn't want mum cleaning her. I picked her up to look and it seems like she has had a prolapse. There is a small red bump of flesh coming from her anus. No bleeding.

What should I do while I wait as she seems to be in some discomfort? Both vets are in surgery.

Don't worry!! I have had this in a couple of pups. The first litter I had one in I kept the pup as I didn't want a new owner alarmed and worried and it resolved completely as the pup grew ,it just pulled back in. That pup I kept is now six and just fine!

If you want to feel you are doing something pop some Vaseline on it and gently encourage the tissue back in but mine resolved themselves.i

Thinking back I also held a cold flannel on the tissue to take down inflammation ..... Don't panic, they really do shrink and pull back in :)

The vet is quoting £110 to sedate and sutur.... They tried pushing it in but failed however  they took her out back and I didn't  see anything..

No really I would wait! Mine shows about 3 weeks and by the time the pups,left me you could hardly see it and the little bit that was a bump had gone back to normal skin colour with no redness.... Blimey some vets overreact!

It won't stay in if pushed straight away....it needs encouraging every day and the inflammation needs to go down

If the pup is showing discomfort he is probably in pain given how good dogs are at covering up. The vet is looking at the situation in frontof him so can see exactly whats happening. I wouldn't be happy leaving it in case things got worse.and she has already had some weight gain problems . I would have it sorted now sorry to disagree

She quiet and feeding. They have sent us home as surgery cannot happen until later this afternoon. She is settled within herself and the initial noise has stopped. At that point she was still straining to go. I have managed to get it back in but it popped out again within  a minute or so. Not really sure what to do as not happy about her being put under at this age...

I can understand the worry of sedation but I would be concerned of it worsening it's not an area that can be left to rest and will come under strain. discuss all you concerns with your vet who I hope u are able to trust

Nope - no trust what so ever..another newbie, very little English. Kept referring to her as He and never seen her before. Asked who the surgeon was and got asked why do you want to know that?'....If push comes to shove I'll wait for the out of hours vet.

It will be uncomfortable unless kept moist. Mine were fine as long as moisturised which allowed gentle manipulation every time they had a cuddle. I fed puppy food soaked only, I believe you fed raw so maybe look at changing to something to help with less constipation. I don't fed raw so can't help. As pup grew the bump pulled back in and was completely resolved by around 8 weeks. I would be very unhappy about suturing at this age, it could make pup a lot nore uncomfortable as Mum will know something has been done and will probably work on the sutures which could make to issue worse ..... You don't need to be rushed into a decision. Why not give it a few days and try reducing inflammation before resorting to surgery

I would also like to add that when the first pup had it I rang a very good old school vet who advised me it would resolve with time and care.... It did which is why when I had it again I waited it out and let them heal naturally.

Feeding raw would just meam increasing bone less meals and reducing bone assuming u have got as far as bone atm and possibly a tiny bit of offal although at this age offal.maybe a.step to far .I wpudl also add more moisture  to the food but have a feeling u are experienced with raw so would know what to do . Also imo  get second opinion particularly  after the difficult consult even if it's a different practise

They haven't had any bone yet FF as I waited until 6 weeks before introducing it last time and started adding offal at 5 weeks in tiny amounts. I have some liver which I could add just for her -again possibly on a gram or two. I think Brainless recommended gripe water for upset tums last time. I think it may help with poo too.

I know its sounds stupid and will cost more but I really respect the emergency vets and might call them tonight for a 2nd opinion. Yes I will also start upping the moisture for her too even though she is suckling - not sure how much she takes in before nodding off.

I don't understand how the suturing will work - how will she grow?? What are they suturing? If it's like human piles(!), then I don't see how it can work?!

Do you have another surgery near you who can have a look at her. I too wouldn't want this left either. Anther opinion from a vet in a different practice

rabid its not the same as piles and those  those you don't suture anyway. this is a rectal prolapse  may need to be suture back in to place. It will not hinder her growth but hopefully will prevent further problems.

Gsd owner I wasn't sure where you were in weaning/feeding. A little more offal may be helpful but care it doesn't thow things the other way and fluid but I would be careful with anything else unless you know exactly what is in the gripe water its not usually used for constipation in human babies. wind yes. slippery elm is good fro both constipation and diarrhoea but does she actually need anything other than slight change in food and fluids

sounds like a second opinion this evening is the way to go or to another practise

A complete prolapse yes would need help but this is a small amount of popped out inflamed rectal tissue that I have seen several times shrink back in and has always self resolved. Sedating and suturing a puppy of 3 weeks is extremely risky and if the swollen tissue is monitored and not getting worse surely letting it heal on its own is better than risky surgery .... I would be very worried about the bitch over licking the sutures and creating more of a prolapse through inflammation.

Do respect your opinions of course and only going on my own experience  of this which has not been a problem for pup when left. :)

Is this prolapse then or haemorrhoids? a crucial difference in diagnosis and treatment. Haemorrhoids I agree you wouldn't be operating at this stage and hopefully not at all . There are other treatments as you say, returning an keeping moist being one and probably the simplest. not allowing constipation as well

It sounds identical to mine which was a tiny prolapse , more of a piece of red inflamed tissue which I believe was cause by an over attentive mum cleaning bums a bit too vigourosly resulting in inflammation. I also think that what helped it shrink was when mum wasn't cleaning them so much ie: once they are fully mobile and running around it gets chance to heal even better. Mine wasn't piles at all.

My old vet was so convinced it would shrink back in it gave me complete confidence to leave it when I saw it again.... I guess you learn something with every litter :)

It is a small red bump or maybe 2(?) as it looks like miniature lips puckering up. A little like the picture in the link and only a tiny bit bigger.

http://i50.tinypic.com/vnksh2.jpg

She basically pushed too hard to defecate this morning and the straining has resulted in this. Should I ring the original vet to clarify whether it is a prolapse or Hemorrhoids? I got the feeling that they weren't sure as no one clarified anything...

I think I would just go to see another vet as you are obviously not happy about an op until further explanation. just looked at the picture , it could be either from ones I ve seen

I will do FF. I think I am going to wait for the emergency vet to open and call for an appointment.

> I am going to wait for the emergency vet

Yes I totally agree with you.  You say it's a vet that you trust - so go with your gut.

Hope all goes well. 

I had this happen to a 4 week old bitch puppy in my final litter (Lowchen, 1989). This resolved over 24 hours with gentle pressure and the application of an ointment - I'm sorry, can't remember what it was now. I was told that if this conservative treatment didn't work, the vet would run a purse-string suture around the anus to retain the prolapse till the tissue shrank back down again - presumably this would have still allowed poop to pass through. I was in a panic, but the vet was very matter of fact about it - just said that this sometimes happened. In this event, the stitch was not needed, she returned to normal very quickly, and though I was on pins each time she pooped, it didn't happen again.

Thank you. I will ask the emergency vet and take it from there as these newbies fill me with dread each time I see them. I know a vet can only get better with experience but at the same time, my pup is not a guinea pig for them to experiment on and be paid for the privileged!  I have found a new vet closer to home and will be joining them asap.

If he advises to observe, I will keep the area moist nd apply gentle pressure if the swelling reduces. If she is in obvious discomfort, I shall take her in.

Right now she has had a drink (I didn't feed this lunchtime) and is playing with a couple of the other pups. Mum is hanging about but hasn't licked her. Had sniff and a try but I distracted her and she has left it alone. I think puppy is letting out tiny, sly trumps and she makes a back end backfire noise when I pick her up.

> I think Brainless recommended gripe water for upset tums last time. I think it may help with poo too.<br />

Constipation is helped by Liquid paraffin and Gripe water will ease tummy ache.

Vaseline will keep the tissue moist and protected.

Thank you. I think they are all a little constipated. The only thing I have done differently with this lot is to use Puppy milk replacement powder instead of full fat goat's milk. I don't have any liquid paraffin to hand (would boots have it?) but can get some in the morning. Should I let them suckle off mum tonight and reintroduce meat in the morning or should I give them tinned meat? Don't want to be messing about with their food too much.

Emergency vet said to use Vaseline to keep the area moist and to monitor. If she gets worse to bring her in and he will suture.

All are fine in themselves and playing and eating and peeing as normal - I picked up 2 poos mum had missed and they felt a little hard to me.

Any chemist should have liquid parafin.pleased u spoke to other vet and sound like u are happier with outcome

Much happier thanks. He just seems so level headed and calm.

I fed them ground beef and watered it to the point it was more fluid than meat but they all ate and even the little one did (yay). The swelling has gone down a little and although we are still red and a little sore, she is happy, playing, eating and sleeping.

I shall pop down to the chemist in the morning and will keep you posted.

A pup from my litter last year had this, I panicked! Vet gave an anti inflammatory and said to put a small amount of Vaseline on every time I went in the room. Don't try and push back in as you don't want to aggravate the already angry tissues.
Within a week it was a pale colour and you could hardly see anything had happened. My vet said to give it a week to clear up, and as long as it didn't get worse then to carry on with Vaseline for that week.

Thank you Drover, this is exactly what I have been doing. Redness has lessened although it was a little inflamed this morning (I put that down to her having passed a poo). It now looks like a tiny sticky outy tongue - nowhere near as alarming as the 1st time I saw it. As we are 4 weeks old today, I have wormed them and this will most likely make them a little loose. I had to go to 3 different chemists before I could get hold of the paraffin but didn't add it due to the worming paste. If they are still a little tied up tomorrow I shall give them a dose.

Incidentally how much do I give per pup Brainless?

I"d give pro rate as for a baby.  So if pup weighs 1/4 what a baby does, then I'd give a 1/4 infant dose.

I have given 1or 2ml

Thanks Brainless. The pups have had their 4 week worming and poo has been softer and a little mucus-y over the past 3 days. Pup with the issues is back to eating and playing with gusto and I assume things are more settled in the tummy department. The gripe water also really helped. She just has a small tongue shaped bit of flesh sticking out of her rectum but it isn't inflamed and has shrunk considerably since it occurred. Will never ever use RC baby dog milk ever again...

On a plus note - they had their beef in strip form today and I held on to one end whilst they learnt to chew the other end. So far they have had beef in goat's milk and I have started adding a raw egg to introduce a different protein. Tonight they sampled turkey minced up and it went down well so we shall be having this as the protein for this week. I shall continue with the goat's milk to make sure they don't get constipated again this week and then slowly reduce it out.

Lights go out at 10pm and all are spread out all over the pen, fast asleep :)

Mine are doing really well on the RC Babydog Milk...

I guess some things suit some puppies and others don't. I had whelpi last time and no issues what so ever. I only had a 1kg tub and then transitioned to goats milk. This time round I am now only adding the milk for their last meal so that they settle and sleep through the night.

My girl can't finish the pups' meals off because the milk makes her poop soft and she does stinky farts on it. So when we stop using the RC she can help clean up again!

I never give pups milk when they are starting to eat, all mine are raw fed so perhaps somewhat different but they are started on raw finely minced beef and get about a teaspoonful each rolled into small balls and popped into their mouths at 2 - 3 weeks old progressing to about 2 teaspoonfuls each 3 times a day after 3-4 days, then I gradually build to add in minced chicken, tripe, lamb etc.. I use a larger mince as they progress until by 5 weeks they are having mince meat with bone too. I sometimes add some lightly boiled offal but once they start on the complete minces that I use it has the correct ratios already with offal and bone. Then they start to get something they can chew, For my large breed by 6 weeks they cope well with chicken necks cut into small pieces and also they start to have chicken feet chopped up too, I give then chunks of beef and tripe as well.  They usually get 4 meals a day by 4 weeks and Mum is allowed access whenever she askes, the pups are, by 4 weeks, in a large indoor run with outside access available at all times. Mum usually goes in to wash off pups and clean round bowls after each feed but by 5 weeks only allows suckling for short standing up sessions ! By 5 weeks pups spend the nights alone with Mum back to her bed in another room. I do introduce some dry kibble in a bowl overnight by 5-6 weeks so they can nibble overnight if they are hungry and so if a pup is to be kibble fed it's had a chance to get used to it. I recommend a meat/veg kibble with no grain/rice at all. They also get Scrambled egg a couple of times a week and a tin of sardines in olive oil a couple of times a week too. They do also get yoghurt a few times a week, usually fed after a meal as an extra. I find by 6 weeks Mums milk is drying up and she is happy to have a romp round the garden with the puppies once they realize she is not so forthcoming with milk ! But she will still allow some suckling up to and including the day the pups leave. We all do things differently but I have raised many large breed litters on this tried and tested method.

That is soooo funny My lot do stinky farts without the aid of RC Puppy Milk....we just put up with it... How on Earth do you stop your dogs from farting???