Flossie has been labouring since possibly 5PM yesterday but no sings of any productivity yet.  Lost of panting and digging but no pushing - and no water bag!!
The babies are elbowing each other out of the way trying to get pole position so I imagine it won't be very long now.
Just took her out for a wee, along with my trusty torch and she stooped like she needed a poo but nothing came out, so I'm thinking something is trying to emerge.
Will keep you posted.
P.S. It's actually 3am here

>....and she stooped like she needed a poo but nothing came out

This was most likely a contraction.  I do hope a puppy or two have emerged by now.  Is this your first litter?  I have almost never had a water bag emerge first, so don't go by that.  Be sure you recognise contractions for what they are and keep track of how long it has been since she started to bear down big time.

How exciting and nervewracking all at the same time, I hope you have a box of puppies soon it sounds as if she was well on her way

If she is having contractions, which what she did outside sounds as if it was, once she starts pushing hard, don't leave her to struggle for much over 1 HOUR before seeing a puppy delivered.   Every delivery.   She may have a big one, or one that's awkwardly presented and frankly it would be better to get professional help, rather than leave her to work at one and become exhausted and shut down - as one of mine did when the vet I entrusted her to for a C.Section, didn't do it with the result we lost 5 of 9 puppies by the time the locum arrived the next morning and did an emergency C.Section.   And we darned nearly lost our bitch too.  Better to be safe than sorry, for me.

Good luck and keep us posted x

Hoping you are busy with pups at this very moment....I think 5 :)

Good luck x

Good luck!

Thinking of you, any news?

The wait is killing me! Keep checking back to see if there's any news...hope all is ok

>The wait is killing me! Keep checking back to see if there's any news...hope all is ok

Ditto!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the delay in posting....no news yet!!   I took her to the vet after she had been labouring for 24hrs and the vet examined her and said all was well.  Her temp was dropped, her cervix was open....just a matter of watch and wait

Oh and she scanned her and said the three pups she could see on scan all had heart beats, so nothing blocking the way

hmmmmm...............

I think I'd be having kittens by now, I don't know about puppies!!  From what I've read, 36hrs of labouring without puppies = c-section....

One of my bitches was in first stage for 48 hours, no problem and another was digging and intermittantly panting in first stage for 5 days. Had x rays to confirm all was ok and she whelped fine on day 67. The book of the bitch actually says 48  hours not uncommon for first stage labour. As long as there is no obvious pushing/ contractions I wouldn't be worried at this stage

OK, story so far....went back to vets as I didn't feel comfortable leaving Flossie in that much distress overnight.  She's has 2 shots of oxytocin but only one baby so far...and while I was typing that she had another...one boy one girl.  At least one more to come

No, she hasn't gone 36 hrs, but it was 27hrs!  Two shots of oxytocin has brought forth two babies and she is currently trying to push number three out
She's been pushing for about half an hour so far....fingers crossed otherwise it will be back to vet for a section!

Good luck. What's the latest?

>One of my bitches was in first stage for 48 hours, no problem and another was digging and intermittantly panting in first stage for 5 days. Had x rays to confirm all was ok and she whelped fine on day 67. The book of the bitch actually says 48  hours not uncommon for first stage labour.

But what would you do if your vet measured the heart beat frequencies of the puppies during said 48 hours and told you that one of the puppies was "not doing well"?  What then?  Of course, if one does not measure the heart frequencies of the puppies, then one does not worry about that, I guess.  Frankly, I just don't know what to do about this situation, which arises again and again, at least here where I live.  Vet checks heart-rates with ultrasound, shakes head, all is not well with the pups, recommends c-section, what is one going to do?  Argue with him?

I've had to grapple with this problem for years, this "walking a tightrope" of decisions involving life or death without the knowledge to make such decisions!  And then when the vet says "It's up to you..." I could kill him/her.

>she scanned her and said the three pups she could see on scan all had heart beats, so nothing blocking the way

I can't help wondering what heart beats have to do with "blocking the way".  I assume the vet meant that there were no dead puppies blocking the way, but a live puppy can block the way as well...

In any case, I'm so glad it seems to be going OK for you!!!!

Congrats on the boy and the girl :)

update? PLEASE!!!!!! ;)

Any update? Hope all is well x

Waiting for an update...!!!

I took it as meaning she couldn't see a dead puppy, which would prevent other puppies behind it moving but not being a vet or sonographer I don't have the answer to that

Anyway, one girl and two boys safely delivered.  They look quite small compared to last litter but today they are noisy and active and Mum is being very attentive.
Just waiting for an opportune moment to change the bedding and wash Flossies back end.
Managed some sleep but still emotionally very tired.  I dont think I could do this again, way too stressful.

Sorry for delay in replying.....two boys and a girl safely delivered.  No section, thank goodness, just oxytocin. xxx

Apolgies for keeping you waiting....we have three puppies, 2 boys and a girl.  No section thank heavens, just oxytocin so not too bad...just very long labour and delivery.  Poor Flops, I really felt for her.  Actually, she was so knackered that I ended up pulling the last one out as she weakly pushed and he was very flat so I had to give him a good rub down and try to suction him, but today they are all very noisy and active....thanks be to whoever was watching over us.  Probably my daughter who's birthday the last one arrived on!!

I think Flossie would have gone on for a lot longer had I not decided to take her to the vet.  She took a long time even after the oxytocin was given.  I don't know how people keep their nerve when things go on for so long!

Whew.....

Soooo glad all is well.  Yes, STRESS!  Tell me about it.... 

But what would you do if your vet measured the heart beat frequencies of the puppies during said 48 hours and told you that one of the puppies was "not doing well"?

I have never heard of a vet in the UK doing this.

Thrilled for your safe delivery of three puppies and mom had help from you. I hope it's onwards and upwards now x

>I have never heard of a vet in the UK doing this.

They do it all the time here (Switzerland).  It is what determines whether one can go on "waiting" (for stage 2 labor to commence) or whether it is imperative to get the puppies out of there.  They do this for human babies too.

Yes for human babies been doing it for years especially in hospitals

Sorry for being so quiet all day been pretty busy as you can imagine.  Flossie gets very territorial when she has pups so I have to put my other gilr in  my bedroom then let Flops out for wees etc.  She's not been eating well either since before pups for some reason so I've been hand feeding her roast chicken and grated cheese with her food.  proper diva LOL
Anyway, all is well so far and I hope all the other fur babies are doing well too. xxxxxx

> I have never heard of a vet in the UK doing this.

never had a General practice vet suggest hear rate monitoring and I rather doubt they would know what the rate should be, most are not even that great with scanning.

the novice vets did this after they insisted my girl needed a section and that all the puppies were in severe distress and one was dead because of it.

The emergency vet checked and said it was utter nonsense and they were fine - enough to hold on for 2 shots of oxytocin at least.

OMG you did well to hold your nerve against that, gsdowner!

Hi everyone, hope all is well with all forumites LOL

Puppies continue to be noisy and very active around the pen and appear to be doing well.  Need to weigh them tomorrow and start logging their weights but they are too wiggly for my scales and literally escape! LOL  Quite funny to see such tiny pups putting up such resistance...anyway, I had a brainwave (I think)  I have, somewhere a luggage weighting thing, so I thought that if I was to get a laundry bag, the mesh kind that you put delicates in, I could put the puppies in the bag and weigh them with the luggage scale, that way they can't escape, they're comfortable and I can get a fairly accurate measurement

I'm keeping a close eye on Mum because she has one of her back teats very swollen and I can't get the puppies to latch onto it.  It's firm but not hard, not unusually hot and not red.  I have tried like anything to get a puppy on it without success so I was/am worried about mastitis.  The this afternoon, didn't one of the pups find it...so I'm just watching and waiting.  I had her on my lap earlier for a snuggle and I was massaging it gently....then felt like a bit of a perv LOL.  Anyway, will keep a close eye on it. 
Managed to wash her back end last night and she was filthy!  Didn't help that she had a dose of the squits as well so you can imagine the state of her...with a coat to the floor!!  She wouldn't let me dry her mind as she wanted to get back to the babies but at least she was clean.  In a couple of days, I might give her a full bath if I think it'll be OK.

She still jumps out of the pen and does her scratching up thing every so often and that still concerns me.  She's done it since the last litter were born so it may just be a habit but I might get my vet to run some bloods on  her just to check that there's nothing underlying that needs attention

Will check in tomorrow
xxxxx

The stratching and digging is normal...... Just after pains and should settle on a few days.... Just watch pups don't get scattered like lottery balls!!

As she has a small litter  not all gland s maybe being emptied so she may be congested in that gland rather than full on mastitis. I would soak this gland with a warm moist flannel which should break down the congestion and then a pup should be able to express the milk :) if a pup can't I would just hand milk a little of the congestion out..

>> I have never heard of a vet in the UK doing this.
>never had a General practice vet suggest hear rate monitoring and I rather doubt they would know what the rate should be, most are not even that great with scanning.

I find this interesting, and I am going to talk with my vet about it.  Switzerland is not exactly a third-world country, so I can probably safely assume that the vets here are not all complete novices, untrained or totally out of touch with modern medical practices.  Naturally, some vets will be better than others, that's for sure.  But in my experience, EVERY vet has checked for the babies' heart frequencies when first-stage labor has gone on for - it would seem - waaay too long.  But there's the problem!  How long is too long, and what are the criteria to determine this?  Guesswork?  Fortitude on the part of the breeder and willingness to - maybe - risk the lives of the puppies?  Risk on the part of the vet?  Go by what is written in the books?  I am really concerned with and about this, as it is, quite simply, a matter of life and death, which I (in the last analysis) am required to solve!

Congratulations on your litter