So how many matings/breedings ( whatever you want to call them) do you go for?

Ive just mated a bitch ( well not me personally the stud dog did) Ovulation was friday, (18.2) so went for mating Sunday, young in experienced stud dog, took a while (1.5 hours of him dancing around her, it didnt help that the bitch didnt flirt or play just stood there flagging!) to get a mating, he just didnt seem to know what to do, but finally got one with 5 min tie.

So i know one mating is all it takes, but what do you guys go for? even with Idexx testing. Im normally 2-3 matings.

I do two, 48 hrs apart

If I knew when ovulation was, I'd mate every other day for 2-3 matings if I could, but obviously it's up to the stud owner's conditions as well.

If I didn't know, I'd go either for a mating every other day until she stops standing or for 3 days, or for 2 matings with 2 days off in between them to cover the widest range of dates. 

I could only have 2 matings on our recent litter, so I had 2 days off in between them - just in case she ovulated late.  Now have a litter of 7 pups.

Larry- IDEXX normally tells me the days but this time he told me her day is Sunday but you can do her monday if you like! Normally he tells me Mon/Tues ( consecutive days).
I did have a bitch who i couldnt get blood from, various reasons general life got in the way, so waited until we could.
Dog mated her 2 days before Larry said i should (ie on ovulation) and 3 days after (so over 5days) she had 10 puppies 63 days from ovulation!

My bitch was only 4.9nmol on the Monday when tested and Larry said she wasn't near ovulation yet, couldn't predict when it would be yet, levels too low and test again on Thursday.

Because we had already travelled to the stud (many hundreds of miles including boat), we went ahead with 1st mating on the Tuesday (day after that result) and then 2nd mating on the Friday - we had 2 days off and then tried again.  We now have 7 pups.  We never got an 'ovulation happened' result. 

My girl found the blood testing extremely traumatic because she kept moving at the last minute (once after we had already started to draw blood) and we kept having to re-attempt.  She then ended up with a big haematoma because the blood was coming out into her neck.  And one of the patches of shaved fur still hasn't grown back and her pups are 1.5wks now(!).  I actually don't think I would test again next time, even though we travelled some distance, I would just chance it based on average days for the breed.  We booked the boat based on average days and, if we hadn't tested, we actually wouldn't have done anything any different(!) in terms of timing - she was mated days 12 and 15.

mine was 2.4 tuesday and 18.2 friday! She was day 16 and had stood for my male from day 9!
These girls like to keep us on our toes don't they!

My (v experienced) stud owner was sure my girl was more into it on the Tuesday and also had the theory that the bitch is more into it just before ovulation, since then the sperm will be there waiting when eggs ripen and are ready.  She said that people who test until they get an 'ovulation happened' result and then travel long distances (a day to book travel, a day to travel), end up getting there just in time.  Their girls still conceive but they are not as ready and willing as the girls that get to stud a bit earlier.  If any of that makes sense.  It did to me, anyway!

Edited to add:  If we'd done what Larry had suggested, we'd have not done any matings at that result and we'd have re-tested on Thursday as suggested.  We'd have got that result on Friday at 4pm, and even if it had said 'mate now immediately', the earliest we could have, would be Sat.  I'm very glad we did what we did, and I think there are no good answers to all this and probably we won't test next time.

I have never used testing but understand why lots do it, I would agree that when the bitch is really keen to be mated it would probably be ovulation time, works for humans too (don't ask how I know)!!  If the stud dog is not experienced I would let him mate again and probably a third time if you can on the principle that with sperm more is best, in any event it can't do any harm. Good luck with your pregnancy plans

> Dog mated her 2 days before Larry said i should (ie on ovulation) and 3 days after (so over 5days) she had 10 puppies 63 days from ovulation!

I don't blood test so I to like to have a bitch mated over around 5 days, or as long as she will stand, especially with bitches that have already had a litter, as I find they will often stand earlier than maidens so stopping too soon may result in reduced sperm viability by optimum conception time.

Experienced males in my breed will often not mate a bitch 7until she is truly ripe (2 days or so after ovulation) even though the bitch is mad keen, and young males will mate her as soon as she will allow, whcih in a proven bitch may be as early as the LH surge (4 days before there are fertilizable eggs).

Also it is a good idea for the male who ahs not been used recently to clear his pipes, so I'd want at least two matings whatever I was doing unless it was a well used male who had mated a bitch within the last few weeks.

In my breed we normally have the dog and bitch staying on same premises so allow them to mate as often as they prefer, our males may only ever sire a few litters in their lifetime or have sometimes years between.

My most recent litter proven bitch and dog.

He mated her on day 14, a Friday, and was not interested enough to mate the next day, mated again Sunday, again not interested next day, then was mad for her for the next three days, (Tues, Wed, Thursday) we brought her home on the last day.

So we assumed from behaviour that she had ovulated Sunday, and she whelped 63 days from the Sunday.

Nature has basically designed canines to mate over around a week, and no harm should come to either, and I see no reason to restrict the male unless he is needed for another bitch within a few days (which isn't what nature intended)..

> in terms of timing - she was mated days 12 and 15.

and out of interest how many days later did she whelp?

> My girl found the blood testing extremely traumatic

I won't routinely test for exactly that reason.

I only ever tested one girl, (she needed three blood draws) as she was behaviourally difficult on previous season (she wanted to be the stud) and I wasn't happy assisting more forcefully unless I knew she was truly ready.

She hated vet visits after that, where previously she had always liked vet visits as we often popped in just to weigh to get our girls happy to visit.

I agree with brainless and rabid.

I have a seasoned stud dog who will tell me when my girl is ready - even though he doesn't get to do the honours! My girls are happy going to the vet but any blood draws have left them weary for the next couple of visits. It doesn't help that they always take them out back to do it. So we have never Idexx tested and are unlikely to. If the dog is tellingme she is ready - then she is.

However, rabid does have a point:

The exception to the general run of things is my recently whelped bitch. She will stand and flag very early on and my boy ignores her. He goes made for her when she is 'ripe' but by then my girl won't be willing to stand. We have missed twice because of this. With her current litter, I had her swabbed day 9 as advised and was advised to 'go now and then try again saturday - however it may be too late'. We did just that. She stood and tied for 30mins thursday night but hated the sight of the stud come saturday morning. She reluctantly allowed a tie of 17mins and when scanned 28 days later, the scanner felt she had taken from the 2nd tie. However, we shall never know for sure as she went early.

She whelped day 61 from the 1st tie, 59 from 2nd.

If I know ovulation day and travelling considerable distance I am happy with one mating at 2-3 days post ovulation. However if dog is local would probably opt for day 2 and day 4 post ovulation

I'm lucky enough to have an experienced boy that never gets it wrong.  I've had people wanting to use him, and telling me that their bitch is "ready."  If he tells me that a bitch isn't worth his energy then she most definitely isn't ready.  Many bitches flag early, I have one here that flags from day 3 just because she's a trollop.

It is very useful having such an accurate boy because he gets it spot on when I'm travelling a long way with a bitch to my chosen stud.  I let him tell me, then leave with my bitch.  Poor boy.

There are lots of different opinions in this but for me, I always went for two, 48 hours apart.    If I had to travel (only once did we leave one of our bitches with the owner of the stud dog and never again!), then provided I get a good mating with it obvious that she's right on, I have been content to leave it to the one.   What I would never do is let them go at it until she rejects him.   Not only is that pointless in my view, but it makes knowing what is the due date more difficult - again something others will have different views about.

Ignorant - 'Larry' must be a very popular stud dog      Needless to say I have never bothered with testing.

>and out of interest how many days later did she whelp?

well that's interesting really...

1st mating Tues 19th April - Day 12
2nd mating Fri 22nd April - Day 15

Whelped Sat 18th June - 60 days from first mating

The progesterone test the day before first mating was only 4.9nmol and Larry said there's no way she would ovulate the next day.  4.9nmol is nearly the LH surge, according to klb - so ovulation should have been 48 hrs later.  If that was the case, she whelped 59 days from ovulation.  Which is pretty early.  It wasn't a huge litter either, with 7.

The charts are based on averages and as such there will always be some bitches that fall outside the norm. I would interpret that your girl progresses quickly once progesterone levels start to rise above baseline reading, and her behavioural responses to the male reflect that too. I have found that my own girls follow similar progesterone patterns across each season thus if you mate her again it will be worth noting this variation in your bitch and assume LH surge and ovulation levels occur at slightly lower levels than the average.

If dogs are anything like sheep, they don't bother with reading books & theories & give birth when they are ready.

Never met an"average" ewe in over 50 years

Thanks klb, yes all noted for next time.  Which won't be for another 3-4 years   Which I will probably need to recover from this time round(!).

> If dogs are anything like sheep, they don't bother with reading books & theories & give birth when they are ready. <br />

Such a sensible answer

Its all so interesting to hear your different experiences.
I too have an experienced stud dog but for some reason with this girl he LOVES her and would quite happily mate her on any day of her season ( it doesn't help that she is a complete tart!!).
He was like it on her last season and I thought it was because i had 3 girls all follow on from eachother and it had blown his mind and he would mate anything!
She stood from about day 9 and he would have loved to have mated her (we mated day 18) and we're on day 22 and he is still pining for her.
He normally isn't interested until they are 'ready' but clearly loves this bitch .
This breed never read the book, and they're always hard to breed, so im going to cross my fingers and pray to the fertility gods we've been successful!