I love my dog he is a 1.5 year old wire haired dachshund but he is driving me to the point of distraction because he simply will not stop barking.  He barks at every single sound, every little thing and also whilst not agressive, in fact he is very gentle, he barks at people when outside, If I stop to even chat with somebody in the park he barks at them it is incredibly antisocial behaviour and I am at my wits end.
I have tried ignoring the barking, then I tried gentle telling him to stop these softly softly approaches did not work.  Then I tried an anti bark control collar that us supposed to give off a high pitched distracting sound that only they can hear and that didn't work, then I tried a water pistol, he hates water but that didn't work, then I tried really long walks thinking maybe he had had pent up energy that hasn't worked and finally I tried a citronella collar guess what it has not worked.
Please help I don't know what to do and my nerves are almost worn thin.  I am at the end of my tether amd my OH is threading that it really is him or the dog!
What can I do to control his barking?
He hasn't been neutered woukd this help?
Thank you

Neutering is highly unlikely to change this, it could possibly make it worse if he is fearful.  I'd get a good behaviourist to assess and create a plan.  Everything you have done is negative/aversive and probably made it worse as hell feel more stressed expecting some sort of punishment whenever he barks. At a minimum you need to show him what you want him to do instead of trying to stop a behaviour.   This is a really good website to help get you on the way.
http://careforreactivedogs.com/start-here

Aw goat, that's awful that hubby is stating him or the dog.............neutering could make things even worse if this is fear barking, there probably is an element of this, small dogs often want to make their presence known, the 'get in first vocally small dog syndrome' is part of many a breeds breed trait, take the testosterone away and he'll be even more fearful.

However, could also now be habit and fun. Humph!

Breeds have a high, medium and low tendency to bark, your breed is medium, therefore from puppyhood you start to tackle it, if you don't automatically puppy train and heavily socialise, you really do need those puppy classes. He's not too old.

Thing is pups and adolescents have to be kept busy, have to be focused on you, with play and training games, all elements of fear distinguished with good experiences, protecting him from aggressive dogs/people, making sure you are upbeat, praising good and wanted behaviours, ignoring the bad and using time outs.

All these things stop fear aggression from forming.

Habitual behaviour needs you to keep him busy, to find more productive things to do, get him to a good adolescent class, to help you teach those commands,  get him involved with something. I highly recommend whistle or clicker training to help teach him.

When he starts his tirade of barking, distract with something he likes to do.

If you go out and he is annoying neighbours, pop him in a crate covered over with a blanket, it will stop the barking.

There is no quick fix goat, this will take time, the first 2-3 years of a dogs life is all about moulding him,.............If you put all this hard work in now, teaching, training, playing he'll calm with adulthood and you'll be in control.

Won't be easy, but if you can tell hubby it's no different to having a child, you have to be patient...............you then have many years of a well behaved dog afterwards.

I learnt this trick from a neighbour.  When he barks bend down to his level and hold his head gently and whisper to him "no, don't bark".  It works after a time but you have do it every time.

That's the thing he isn't a fearful dog he is a confident little thing and he really does like other dogs and people it is just when I am talking or so to talk to someone he barks at them or he whines as if to say come on I am bored.  In fact I find him quite controlling for example he loves to play ball but if we stop or the ball rolls under the sofa and nobody gets it for him he will whine and cry insistently it could be all day until somebody retrieves his ball!!!!!
I have also tried the bending down and telling him gently to stop to no avail!
We also did puppy classes where he was as good as gold!  Quite the model pup.  I will definitely try the crate and blanket approach when we go out though. 
I am wondering if I should get a behavioural expert in to take a look at his behaviour and I am going to experiment by having my friend bring her dog over to play to see if with the company of another dog he stopes barking as I wonder if he needs a friend!

Do you have neighbours who are affected by this goat?
.

I'd definitely recommend a behaviourist, goat. They'll be able to stand back and assess what's going on, and give you guidance on how to deal with him.  He sounds like a clever little chap, who needs some guidance and, who's still very young.   Training classes, IMHO, are good for training 'commands' sit, stay etc, but don't show you how to transfer those skills into, or manage, every day life.  It's like kids who are the best behaved at school - until they get home...

That is sooo true he needs a good school teacher

I think the neighbours definitely hear him yes

There is a dog behaviorist/psychologist in Germany who is just fantastic.  His name is Martin Rütter, and he is on TV with his program called "Der Hundeprofi" (the dog-profi).  Naturally you can find him on google, if you are interested in having a look.  He helps people to understand and to solve the problems they are experiencing with the behavior of their dog.  He also travels around giving lectures, he has his own training center and trains others as well as working with the dogs which are brought to him. He has written many books and is a highly-intelligent and delightful person.  The wonderful thing about Martin is how he is able to see situations (and the resulting behavior) from the point of view of the DOG.  I often find his analysis a revelation, and his treatment of the problem just amazing!  You have to wonder why YOU didn't think of such a simple solution!  If you have the good fortune to find someone like this, you may be very surprised to learn the reasons for this behavior (what this means to the dog) and what you can do about it.

I think the neighbours definitely hear him yes

OK, in that case & so your fully aware of what your position is in criminal law.

Under the noise abatement act you can be fined a max of £5000 quid & get a criminal record, although it's down to any local council to enforce it that very much depends on how many or how frequent complaints from neighbours they get, if there are regular complaints from neighbours they will act quite quickly but each council will vary a lot, in City of Westminster, they will not allow any animals in any of their council properties, other noise nuisance problems they clamp down hard & fast without compromise. Other councils vary individualy.....anyway, maybe take that into account & make your own assesment of how you think your neighbours might or might not be reacting behind your back.
.

Wow thank you for telling me. The lady who lives below is the one I am worried she definitely hears him but she is a nice lady and doesn't mind his bark she said he has a nice deep bark!  She is also slightly hard of hearing so perhaps it doesn't bother her so much.
The other neighbours are at work most of the day so yes they would hear him more than likely on the weekends but again they are all very nice and don't seem to bothered I think I am more tuned into it than they are

I have a Whippet who must be a cousin!!    We had her at 9 weeks, and to this day (coming up to 8) she's still yapping.    She's spayed and I seriously doubt castration will do anything other than prevent unwanted litters with your dog!!    Mine is inclined to be retiring, but if she sees, or hears anything outside, she sounds off.      I've never lived with yapping (Bassets do not yap) and frankly I can't stand it.   I've tried what I think is everything and still she yaps.   Part of the problem is our living room window looks out on the front door which is at right angles to the living room window.   So anybody who comes, usually the postie, means she sees, yaps and the postie leaves.   'I've won'!!     I have no way of blocking off the window (other maybe than nets which I HATE) so I just have to try to anticipate.   I know not to shout because that's joining in.   Being rather skittish, throwing something, or using a water spray doesn't work either.    So I'll be watching your answers with interest.

ps    Thankfully at the moment we are 'detached' so no neighbour problems, but that could all change if we have to move somewhere that is attached.

What about self-adhesive window frosting?  I detest nets, the first thing I did when I moved in here was chuck them as the last people had left them on all the windows but I have self-adhesive frosting on my lounge windows and it makes the world of difference.

> What about self-adhesive window frosting

That might be worth looking into, much as we rent and I'm not sure whether we would be okay doing this   Or whether, to be honest, it would be enough - she is a sighthound after all 

Chewing on a raw bone (beef rib) will release calming hormones and just may help this annoying barking habit.

Facebook Replies:

Bo Sussex says: Poor dog, no wonder he is totally confused if he's been subjected to bark collars, citronella collars and being sprayed by water. The question that needs asking is WHY is he barking? is he over aroused, fearful, frustrated? using aversives, ignoring it and telling him to stop (it's a dog, not a child!) doesn't change the underlying emotion. Why not find a behaviourist that can firstly assess him, then devise a counter conditioning program to follow.

Stephanie Presdee posted a link: Victoria Stilwell: How to Deal with Out-of-Control Barking

Maj Maj Evill says: As a mini wire breeder I can tell you definitively that castration will NOT stop him barking, you need to work out why he is so fearful and treat that.

Hi I just want to clearly state to Bo Sussex from Facebook that I have never used and would never use a bark collar on my dog in fact I am not too sure what this is do you mean an electric collar which to me is just cruel? I have also followed advice of reputable behaviour experts who have suggested distraction techniques such as spraying water and citronella spray collars this is why I have turned to the forum for some helpful suggestions :-)

goat 4 days ago
I tried a citronella collar guess what it has not worked.

Goat today
have never used and would never use a bark collar on my dog

HP
You have already stated that you used a citronella spray collar, that’s what all citronella collars are.
I suggest you at least try to be consistent with your statements or it looks…….

Link To Manufacturers Citronella spray collar use video, as used by goat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sTBXriek5E
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>Bo Sussex says: Poor dog, no wonder he is totally confused if he's been subjected to bark collars, citronella collars

Hethspaw, 

Bo Sussex does list 'bark collars' and 'citronella collars' separately. One would assume that they mean an 'electric collar' when they refer to a 'Bark Collar'? I may have missed it but I can not see any reference that Goat used a 'Bark (electric) Collar'.  I will request clarity from Bo.

A citronella collar is a 'distraction' tool.

Admin, a citronella collar can be every bit as aversive as an electric collar, they are not simply 'distraction' tools.  Some dogs will ignore them, some dogs find them extremely unpleasant.  In addition, citronella will continue affecting the dog's nasal passages and potentially eyes as well for some time after the event, continuing the punishing effect long after the behaviour has stopped - or indeed as it continues, diluting any potential connection between bark and punishment that may be made.

Bark collars can be electric or spray, the term is a bit of a catch-all.

Goat - unfortunately the advice you were given seems to be entirely punitive without addressing the root cause of the barking.  If he's barking for excitement then whatever excites him should stop; if it's for attention, then walk away; if it's for a ball then the ball gets put away or held until he pauses for breath.  Clicker training would likely help you here as it is very precise and quick: you would be able to click the moment he does pause, and build on that, using what he wants as his reward.

>Admin, a citronella collar can be every bit as aversive as an electric collar,

I am well aware of that Nikita

>Bark collars can be electric or spray, the term is a bit of a catch-all.

Bo had listed 'bark' and 'citronella'. I don't think it hurts to clarify for Goat, what Bo meant.

Admin
Bo Sussex does list 'bark collars' and 'citronella collars' separately.

HP
Admin, yes I know she did & as a result >she made the post confusing<, for reasons unknown but maybe a lack of historical & current knowledge.

So, for clarity: The first mechanised remote collars of any kind to be imported into UK were the abiostop anti bark, citronella spray collars in the mid  to late 1980's. It's import was subject to an exclusive contract between the manufacturer, Dynavet, & Roger Mugford.

Mugford had the sole UK import and distribution rights with the French Dynavet PLCs' remote products, he still does but now it's all tied up with his 'Company of Animals' PLC, below is a link to the Dynavet citronella anti bark collars, sole import & distribution rights are owned by Mugfords' outfit.

Dynavets citronella anti bark collars link
http://amzn.to/2616Ycv
.

I have seen non citronella refills for spray collars - plain compressed air - perhaps this may be causing the confusion?
Also, there are two types, one is operated by the dog's larynx when he barks, and one by a remote control.

Hi everyone thank you for trying to help me clear up the different type of collars the one that I had tried was by Pet Safe it sprays citronella when the dog barks.  I did not like it at all and stopped using it very fast, funnily enough my dog was not perturbed by it in the slightest he is a funny thing!
Anyway I have gone out and purchased a clicker today to try some clicker training though I am not hopeful but will keep positive.

Clicker can work really well but it's about timing . I have clicker trained my barker or at least made an attempt. What i have got is a dog who goes quiet if she isnt in full flight when nothing works except physically removing her but  she now comes to me for  treat  when ever i click.it's an improvement but because I havnt got timing  right isn't quite what I wanted .do some research before u  start to work out exactly when to click and treat. Another idea is to teach her too bark so she only barks when she is commanded.perhaps someone could explain that as I havnt managed that at all

not perturbed by it in the slightest he is a funny thing

Well, back to the barking, he is an earth hunting/killing breed, earth hunters were historicaly bred to bark when excited for the simple reason they often had to be dug out of wherever/whichever earth they had gone into, it's also a notable point on the barking that as German working dogs they were a high value dog because they could and would kill what were considered pests in many areas such as badgers & also put food on the table when hunting rabbits.

All I am saying is that those old genetics might occasionally be more prominent in the odd individual dog, that won't 'help' you any but it is one possible explanation as to his barking as you describe it in your first post.
.

The idea of a clicker is that the clicker marks the required behaviour. You don't click as the dog is barking to make it stop barking but you do click and reward the second the dog stops barking - the clicker is marking the quiet behaviour and the reward quickly follows the clicker and thus you are rewarding the behaviour you want your dog to do.

Timing is critical and if you aren't spot on with the timing of the use of the clicker you will be marking the wrong behaviour. You can use a "clicker" word rather than an actual clicker - it is far easier to get the timing right with a word and the beauty of using a marker word is that you have your voice with you at all times whereas you have to remember to have a clicker on you at all times

I use the word "yessss" to mark a behaviour but did start off by using an actual clicker. If you click you must treat (even if your timing is a bit out). You also need to proof the clicker so that your dog understands what it means. I started off by having some very small treats and dropping them on the floor. As the dog approached a treat to eat it I clicked and did this several times a day for a couple of days. My dogs soon learnt that a click equalled a treat. You then start to use the clicker to mark the required behaviour - if the dog is barking you wait for it to stop and as soon as it does you click because it is quiet and then instantly reward. Once the dog realises that being quiet is rewarded you can then introduce a word for that action - I would choose one you haven't used previously. If you usually tell your dog to "be quiet" and it takes no notice then it has probably learnt that those two words actually mean carry on barking - because that is what it has previously continued to do when you say that word. Once the dog has learnt that your chosen word is associated with  being quiet  you can gradually start to use the word as a command. It takes time, patience and accuracy but does work if you get your timing right and understand the process of clicker training.

If it were me I would probably try out the clicker training on something your dog can already do on command - maybe a sit if that is a really reliable behaviour when requested. That way you can get the clicker timing right on something your dog can already do rather than possibly confusing him with ill timed clicking for a new behaviour.

Hope that makes sense

Good post Harley . Yep I know what I've done wrong lol and hoping goat does a better job

goat
try some clicker training though >I am not hopeful< but will keep positive.

goat, I am writing the questions below based on the barking pattern you have written in your first post

Q1. How long do you think it will before the "good" neighbours you describe turn into very angry, totally fed up neighbours who reach a point when they will no longer tolerate the awful racket you describe, which goes during yours & the dogs presence in your home, & end up complaining to the council, how much longer?

Q2. What will you do then?
.

.
goat, this is not your first post where you describe the barking problem is it?....in the other post there seemed to be some kind of possible related problems. So what happened that time was everything resolved or is your current post a continuation of what appears to be an ongoing string of problems not yet resolved?

Q 3. In the days & month or so after when you first got him as a pup did you spend a significant portion of time interacting with him, as opposed to the interactions your partner did?

link below to the other post of last September.
http://forum.champdogs.co.uk/topic_show.pl?pid=1422707;hl=barking
.

Goat cannot go backwards and she is asking for help for now not in the beginning. Whatever she did or didnt do earlier she is now looking for  help. Lets be solution focused and help her improve the situation.
As for the neighbours she is trying to resolve the problem before it escalates to the point the neighbours complain.so asking what she will do is rather pointless. Rather hoping it wont get to that point. I also believe she may have moved from the uk so some of the laws will be different if I am correct

FF
Goat cannot go backwards and she is asking for help for now not in the beginning

HP
Thank you for replying on goats behalf, sorry, my fault, I had assumed that as an adult married woman she was old enough to do that herself, I should have known to ask you in the first place.......how silly of me
.

furriefriends
she is asking for help for now not in the beginning

HP
Interesting, what help are you giving her & is it effective?
.

Just as a an addendum... I'm clicker training our 11 week old. So far he knows (obviously not in lots of contexts, but at home/garden/pavement) off, sit, down, paw, bed, heel and a positive interruption (which means "when I hear a kissy noise I should stop whatever doing and find mum because she has chicken for me!" which has rescued many children, shoes and human-snacks so far!) and is learning "pssss" and "bom" - do a wee/poo.

I am using both a clicker, for "sessions" and a marker word (high pitched 'yeh') to mark behaviours and he copes fine with them interchangeably AS LONG AS the timing stays good.

I just wanted to post because the "I'll need the clicker on me all the time" thing worried me but actually it hasn't been the case for my pup.

Also I cannot recommend a YouTuber called "kikopup" enough for clicker training videos. She's brilliant. I'm sure she has a barking one up, if you have a little look.

> just wanted to post because the "I'll need the clicker on me all the time" thing worried me but actually it hasn't been the case for my pup.<br />

The marker word is really useful. Not sure if your reply was to me or someone else but just wanted to clarify what I meant In a situation where you are trying to change a learned behaviour it's really useful if you can do that wherever you are and whenever the opportunity arises to mark and reward a wanted behaviour and not just in a specific training session.

So, for instance, if my youngest rescue - who (is) was a car chaser - was out in the front garden with me when I was gardening and heard a car coming  he would have started to get really excited and be on full alert ready for the car to come into view. I  needed to remember to have the clicker close to hand to click and reward the slightest head turn towards me and away from the approaching car and it wasn't always possible to do that. By using a marker word instead of a clicker I was able to ensure that I could reward every time he made the choice to stop focussing on the car and offer me another behaviour.

I do still use a clicker and agree that dogs can interchange between an actual clicker and a marker word

I keep the clicker in cupboard in the kitchen and when I open that cupboard my oldest dog gets really excited and offers me a whole range of behaviours - love watching him work out for himself which behaviour might earn him a reward. He might sit, down, stand, spin, play dead etc but the best part of it all is that he uses his brain to work out what is required and thoroughly enjoys himself whilst doing so.

. Although ideally a clicker so the tone remains the same  but have found its not practical.  I click with my tongue which she can hear a long way off and works just the same

Mine does this "have a wee think" too. In fact it was how I trained "paw" - I had been holding a treat in a loosely closed fist to train "off". Once he'd mastered it with the word command I sat in the same pose and waited. He turned his face away and sat down (off). Then he lay down (down) then he got up and had a sniff/nibble at my hand. Then he sat down again and cocked his head. Then he put his paw on my fist CLICK! and opened my hand. It took 5 clicks for him to get both the action and the word. My smart boy

It makes training more dynamic too, because it presents behaviours I might not have been planning on training right then but that he will pick up more easily because he was doing it anyway. I'm going to teach "speak" next because he will often bark once in frustration if paw doesn't work.

Debbo198
Everything you have done is negative/aversive

HP
Your wrong, the stimuli used by goat were not aversive to the dog so no negative behaviour was needed by the dog, >the individual organism is the only arbitor< of what is aversive & what is non aversive & in goats dogs case it perceived no aversive consequence of its barking behaviour, see vid below for correct translation of "negative" behaviour:

B F Skinner Translated: Negative Reinforced Behaviour (dogs behaviour), video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE5HzM6cRX8
.

> Bo Sussex does list 'bark collars' and 'citronella collars' separately. One would assume that they mean an 'electric collar' when they refer to a 'Bark Collar'? I may have missed it but I can not see any reference that Goat used a 'Bark (electric) Collar'.  I will request clarity from Bo.

I think they may be refuring to the anti bark coller the op said about in their post

> Then I tried an anti bark control collar that us supposed to give off a high pitched distracting sound that only they can hear

Hethspaw
ive  been in two minds about whether to reply to you, or not as you have always been a proponent of the e-collar - as in the collar that gives a dog an electric shock & I also totally disagree with your ideologies.
However, in the spirit of this forum being read by anyone who cares to, I want them to know that your link is purely your interpretation and is based on your opinions.

as you have always been a proponent of the e-collar - as in the collar that gives a dog an electric shock & I also totally disagree with your ideologies.

Quite clearly, but not surprisingly, you have failed completely to carry out any research on e-collars but you try to imply  to others you do know something , rather than me try to educate 'you'.....lets all have a video show of what you describe as 'electric shock', tens technology collars......you can stay illiterate by not watching a vid show...

E-Collar Confidence Building in Nervous Dog - Recall Training in Non Compliant Dog (live example)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB36jc__RJY

Recall Reinforcement Conditioning
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsO66m4e820

Emergency Situation Recall
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBWrgS51-kc

Predatory Chase Recalls - Multiple Chase Scenes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e06Ck8azVc4

E-Collars, Edu Learning Principles Of E-Collar Training, No Different To A Tap With An Eccles Cake
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-8CyBCG0LE

E-Collar Trained. Positive Conditioning Recall With Collar Tone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93UQhfszBck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-8CyBCG0LE

Modern Reward Training
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSlx6XXWoUg
.

n the spirit of this forum being read by anyone who cares to, I want them to know that your link is purely your interpretation and is based on your opinions.

You must mean the Negative Reinforced behaviour vid, yet you fail to point out whats incorrect about it?????????????????

Sounds more like your illiterate of B F Skinners OC terminology, frustrated at not understanding my vid as consequence of the same, so just to familiarize your good self with some of him (B F Skinner) (1)the cessation of a positive reinforcement acts as a negative, the cessation of a negative as a positive.

Ref
B F Skinner, P66 'The Behaviour Of Organisms', 1938
.

Humm,
in the spirit of this forum being read by anyone who cares to, I want them to know that your link is purely your interpretation and is based on your opinions.

This now should read links

Sounds more like your illiterate of B F Skinners OC terminology, frustrated at not understanding my vid as consequence of the same, so just to familiarize your good self with some of him (B F Skinner) (1)the cessation of a positive reinforcement acts as a negative, the cessation of a negative as a positive.


Did you mean "you're" illiterate?  How ironic.

I know of no good trainers who use or advocate the use of e-collars.

I realise my post will not go down well with Hethspaw who seems to believe they are the be all and end all.

Having seen one in use on a dog I met on a walk once I am even more convinced that they should be banned. If one has to resort to shocking a dog to get it to comply then one is failing not only as a trainer but as a human being.

I realise that I will now be bombarded with links demonstrating how wrong I am in my thinking.

I know I have said it all before over the years - but new members or those just browsing may not realise that e-collars give out electric shocks. HP will try to convince people that they are harmless and the only answer to a lot of training problems - I disagree and would suggest users need to be trained in how to be an effective trainer by building up trust with one's dog rather than shocking it into submission.

I think your signature "Crank Exterminator" says it all really - you have chosen a very apt signature HethsPaw.

Having said my bit on your e-collar posts - yet again - I will not comment further.

HP recommends 'zapping' poor dogs for almost everything...it's his default answer and is on ignore for most people.

Do you remember a couple of years ago there was some 'electrocution' 'trainer' (I use the term reluctantly) who advised them for everything?
He got banned from the board
The expression 'give them enough rope.........................comes to mind

Lol -  "bombarded with links" you and me both.  They're (the links) not worth looking at as they're all 'home-made by HP.   I didn't comment on the many grammatical errors in HPs post, despite them doing so on so many others, but I did like you pointing one out.
HP,
trying to relate e-collars to TENS (pain relieving machine often used for childbirth) is ludicrous as they target different areas of the bodies and emit differently.

but new members or those just browsing may not realise that e-collars give out electric shocks.

I don't think that just because someone is new here they can be as illiterate as you seem to think they are, but, just in case they did't get the drift here's 2 more manufacturers training vids

E-Collars. Dogtrace Manufacturers Training Vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSIMTx7U5uc

The First E-Collar, 2000: Tri Tronics Training Reinforcement Instructions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRgHGyONWz4
.

trying to relate e-collars to TENS (pain relieving machine often used for childbirth) is ludicrous as they target different areas of the bodies and emit differently.

Taking into account you know full well your illiterate (or indoctrinated/brainwashed by others) on anything e-collar you showing signs of arrogance to compensate for your lack of knowledge on the subject of the subject.

So, for others who are interested:

All e-collars & most the tens products start at 5mA, which is around the lowest threshold of sensation, collars & other tens units go up to  around 80mA, which is below 1amp, link 1 shows the figs just given except some of these start at 0mA.

Tens technology has numerous applications including electro sex M/F sex toys, just google & you'll find those available in UK, I wont put a link 'cause they contain graphic erotic images.....enjoy Ur google hunting

Other tens electrical products with mA given.

.http://bodyclock.co.uk/libra-tens-machine/