Hi everyone  I am having an issue with my puppy's breeder. I asked whether she was vaccinating the pups before sale and if so that she asked her vet to use the same one as my vet and gave her the information. She said she would ask her vet and I said that if not I didn't want my puppy vaccinated before I collected her. However she went ahead with a non compatible vaccine which means my vet has to start the whole course again - hardly in the pup's interests. When I challenged her about this she said that as a licenced breeder she was required to vaccinate puppies before sale. I have been unable to verify the truth or otherwise of this and wondered if anyone knew.

Are you in the UK? I'm not sure but narrowing down where you are and the breed will help those in the know as different areas and breed associations have different rules.

I would simply get a second (full) vaccination done at 12 weeks.

That is what my vet says I will have to do and it is not what I would have wanted.  I don't think it is in the best interests of my puppy to be flooded with vaccines at such a young age and my vet wasn't happy that she had also been given Advocate. However the thing which I am unsure of is whether the breeder is right in saying that puppies have to be vaccinated before sale. If anyone knows the answer I would be pleased to hear.

The vast majority of us on here will not be licenced breeders as we will generally only produce a litter when we ourselves want a pup.  I have heard that licenced breeders do vaccinate pups before they leave due to the large numbers of pups being produced presumably to reduce the risk of cross infection.  You don't seem very happy with the situation, are you sure this is the breeder for you?

It's been a long time since we bred our last litter but we held onto our puppies until they were 10 weeks (unless we happened to know the new owners and they were experienced) at which point they went off to their new homes fully wormed (with the advice to do it again at around 3 months) but not vaccinated.   This meant that when they took their puppies to their vets, within the first 48 hours, they could be given their first vaccination shot.    I didn't want to risk any vet starting again, for whatever reason.

I have no idea whether things have changed since we stopped breeding, but I'd suggest in the UK, more breeders don't give any vaccination shots before the puppies go to their new homes, than do.   And this isn't down to cost-cutting or being neglectful, but because there's no point as is said, 'flooding their systems with vaccination'.   I knew of a breeder in S.Ontario who routinely titre tested each puppy before selling them to see what they truly needed before vaccinating at all.

My pup had been vaccinated with a different brand to what my vet uses. I just rang round local vets until I found one using the same brand.
Are you a long way from your breeder so that you can't use the same vet for the jab ?

The reason for not mixing brands is that no company test on all the various combination on brands so wont guarantee there wouldnt be problem. Of course if there were a problem neither company would take responsibility. I would have your pup titre tested at least then you would have an idea as to if the pup actually needs any further vaccinations. 
Then if vaccination is still what you decide you wan to do you may need to ring round the various vets to find who uses that one brand o rask your vet to buy in . The other possible option as St Domingo suggest is to return to the breeders vet unless that vet will send a suitable 2nd vaccine to your vet by courier maybe

Definitely titre test & be guided by the results. I have used Glasgow University's testing for many years & the results include advice on the action to take.
Most of my dogs have only ever been vaccinated once at just over 10 weeks as puppies & never needed another vaccination. I never vaccinate any dog without a titre test, I only vaccinate puppies over 10 weeks of age, in accordance with the manufacturers guidelines.

Giving another course after the dog has already been vaccinated is asking for an adverse reaction IMHO & IMHE

Puppies are only given 2 vaccinations under 10 weeks of age incase the first vaccnation is affected by maternal immunity. The first & second doses are exactly the same

If you want to titre test I recommend finding  a vet who will use vaccicheck as it should be around £40 not the higher figures often quoted. current
thinking is vaccination at around 14 weeks although as previously said many vets will still do earlier an then twice as mothers immunity is often still present and is blocking the vaccine

Don't restart the vaccination programme. Either get your vet to get that vaccine or find a local vet to do the second jab for you. A pup I had a number of years ago hado it's 1st vaccination.  All I did as my vets didn't stock it was call around a few others and found one who stocked it and went in and got the second jab. All done and dusted with no issues

In retrospect probably not but unfortunately I didn't realise until I took her to my vet to be checked the day after I brought her home, that the breeder had disregarded my request and so it was a bit late then as of course we were all in love with her. Quite apart from the breeders actions and the health of my puppy, there was also the question of the extra costs involved in either having to have a full course, finding a vet which used the same vaccine and then having to pay another consultation fee or taking her back to have her second jab using the breeders vet a round trip of nearly 200 miles! My issue with the breeder was that having ignored my wishes and just vaccinated her anyway with the wrong vaccine, I felt she should make a contribution to the extra costs her actions had caused me. Her reply was that she was obliged, as a licenced breeder, to vaccine ate the puppies before sale. She also offered to take the puppy back if I was unhappy! I was unable to find out if she was just making an excuse or it was a fact. However as I can be very tenacious in these circumstances I persevered and she is giving me £50 towards the costs. Having spent the whole morning going back and forth with emails trying to find out why she had to vaccinate them, when she rang me to advise she would be refunding me £50 she said that the council she was registered with as a breeder insisted on it. I still have my doubts unless something has changed in the last 2 years when I bought my retriever without her having had her first vaccination. Just for the record the puppy is a cockapoo which I chose as a suitable smaller dog for my retriever and although the puppy seems very healthy and well looked after and was given a clean bill of health by my vet, I would certainly not recommend this breeder from Essex to anyone seeking a cockapoo.

> Giving another course after the dog has already been vaccinated is asking for an adverse reaction IMHO & IMHE<br />

Just to make it clear I wasn't suggesting giving another course just the one vaccination with the three important 'core' components at over 12 weeks and no more.

It is very likely the first vaccine will not take, and also some vets only give some of the components in the first jab, so pup still needs to have the full 'core' vaccines.

A friend of mine now only vaccinates once at 12 weeks as she doesn't have hers vaccinated for Lepto in Scotland as it seems after research her vet found there had not been a case of Lepto in that part of the Btritish isles for decades and the Lepto vaccine causes the most side effects.

You could look at it from another angle, and say that the breeder wants her pups to have at least one vaccination before they leave as the new owner might not bother to vaccinate at all.

Different councils seem to have different licencing requirements so the only way to find a is by getting in touch with the relevant council.

The reason for more than one jab is, as Brainless said, in case the first was blocked by mother's immunity.  A single jab at either 12, 14 or 16 weeks (the % of 'takers' increases with age) is enough to last for 5/7 years minimum, if not a lifetime. I titre tested 1 pup after a year and the other 4 weeks after his 16 week jab - both show immunity.
I also have not given Lepto as it has greater side effects and doesn't even last a year.

Sorry I meant to reply to you in my post of a few minutes ago. I am not intending to let her have a full course but will be finding a local vet who uses the same vaccine.

If that is the case she shouldn't be selling a puppy to anyone she doesn't trust to care properly for the puppy. I would say that such a breeder is in it for the money!

Did you also buy your retriever from a licenced breeder?

That's good. Licenced breeders meansl that's they have over what 4 or 5 litters a year. So commercial and do it for the money. Essentially a puppy farmer.

I'm thinking of titre testing and checking if my boy's covered. I've not missed a jab in three years but reading other people only inoculate every three years I'm wondering if this is the best way?
My breeder inoculated my boy's first vaccination and we used the same vet to have the same batch of inoculation. .. We only had to travel a further 20 minutes so it seemed worthwhile.

My query is if I only inoculate every third year if I had to use kennels as an emergency as I had to re my emergency admissions and first week out, will they accept him?

just looked at a couple of councils in Essex and yes they require a licenced breeder to vaccinate any puppies at 8 weeks . It also implies that anyone breeding any amount of  litters not just the 4 or 5 I believed  need a licence . I had always thought it was only if you were breeding more than certain amount of litters per year . I know you didnt ask that. I think things are beginning to change with more councils wanting licencing befoe any litter is bred therefore controlling everything. not sure that is as good as it sounds
Shame she wasn't up front at the beginning so you knew what to expect.

depends on the kennel saxonjus. there are  plenty that will accept titres but most do require vaccinations and often yearly as many councils have not caught up with current guidelines. This is why a lot of people use house sitters so they can avoid the problem. maybe if you are worried about emergencies its worth checking around.
If you join canine Health concern fb group there are lists of kennels that will accept titres. The website may also have the information

> I had always thought it was only if you were breeding more than certain amount of litters per year .

That law requires anyone who breeds five or more litters to automatically need a licence  or anyone breeding as a business which councils are free to interpret as they please.

Hi  No I bought her from a first time hobby breeder and everything about the breeder was pretty much perfect. Mollie is my third retriever so I knew what I was looking for and which bloodlines I preferred. The breeder may have been a novice but she chose an excellent stud dog and both parents had excellent hip scores. The puppy pack we left with was the best I had ever had and even included 6 puppy wee pads. I have never bought from a licenced breeder before and I don't think I will again.

Thanks for the information which I wasn't aware of. As you say if she had been honest from the start I would have known and could have decided whether to go ahead or not. The breeder obviously loves animals and knows a lot about them including genetics etc, but she is a little naïve and has virtually no business or people skills.

The breeder of the retrieve would not have to vaccinate as he/she would have no requirement to be licenced.

My thanks to all those who have taken the time to reply to my post. I have learned a lot about vaccinations from you that I didn't know despite having had many dogs over the years. I have always had my dogs vaccinated every year as if I left it a few months past the 'due' date my then vet insisted that my dogs had a full course again! When  I took the puppy to my new vet, he said she will only need the main vaccination every three years and only the L4 every year so things have changed. I am much more happy with this as I always felt the dogs were being over vaccinated. In future I will ask for her and my retriever to be tested to check their immunity before have a 'booster'.

I would like a back up plan in a good dog sitter. I'll have to check my kennel I used during surgery re titres accepted? Guess I'll have to search a few dog sitter adverts... Mainly he comes with us to uk cottages and family member had him for week for France holiday and used kennels for a weekend family wedding.

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Jules Magee Burton says: If you don't agree with things already if find another breeder! Your right it's not good all those vaccs, they do it because it's a commercial environment, also not the best start in my opinion xx

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Amanda Carrington says: My show springer came in-vaccinated. My breeder wouldn't vaccinate and micro chop together which was fine by me.

Jayne-Neil Sturgeon says: your own vet should be able to order in the same vaccine she used even if they don't use it..

Angela Radcliffe says: This is why breeders shouldn't let pups go before 12 weeks as then pups can have both jabs with same vet this is how I've always done it

------ Layla Cooper says: Which may be ok for some breeds but definitely not most! Them going at 12 weeks misses a huge socialisation period. As a breeder of a very active breed, they were most definitely in need of 121 attention from new families rather than staying an extra month with 8 other siblings!

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Angela Radcliffe says: With the new laws about microchipping I wouldn't like to think what pain microchipping a pup of less than 12 weeks feels like but I breed small breed dogs so I like the fact that I can be microchipping and vaccinating at the same vet one that I think is suitable and how can u guarantee the new owners will remember to do the second or when issues like what this lady is faced with

Karen Brown says: I microchip at 6 weeks, no vaccines and pups leave at 7-8 weeks. Any longer is nit in I test of my gundog breed at all.
Vaccines before 12 weeks are pointless as maternal immunity will likely prevent development of required immunity. Best situation in such a case is no further vaccine until 14-16 weeks then just one dose of whatever brand your vet uses. You can always follow up with titre to ensure vaccine has taken but any vaccine at 16 weeks should only require one dose. The two dose protocol is based on potential failure of first dose due to maternal antibodies .

Peter Ateamwindowcleaning Bell says: Pdsa will probs have the compatible one

Maj Maj Evill says:  My vet will get the vaccine from another practice if necessary but some vets just insist on doing the whole course again.

Really have to add that I do not understand the difference in vaccines from different sources, after all, a tin of beans is a tin of beans regardless of who the manufacturer is. There has to be a standard surely?

It's because no testing has been done on mixing vaccines from different manufactures .if anything went wrong and it does each company wpuld say it's tje other which isn't in tje interest of anyone. Safest position from a manufacture is to say they shouldn't  be mixed. All.vaccines are not.the same.there can.be differences in the adjuncts used .also.even tje data sheets vary in their facts

Different vets have different answers to this one.  There are some vets who will happily use a different brand for the 2nd vaccine and then there are others who insist on restarting from scratch...

You are quite correct, but in case of adverse reactions who would be responsible, the manufacturers want to cover themselves?

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Klaudyna Przemek Bogusławscy says: When I had pups I ask the future owner what vaccine they want if they have a specific one I look for a vet who does this vaccine