Continued from HERE

I've started a new post as the other one was getting long and a little off point.

I am seriously anxious about my girl's well being tonight and have spent most of this evening in tears (however this could be due to the ongoing builder problems and the time of the month - although the latter has never be an excuse before).

She looks far too uncomfortable and can hardly settle. She is hanging very low and looks like a malnourished, pot bellied, african orphan. She is struggling to walk and her rear end waddles like a duck. She is very heavy footed and no longer fluid in her movement. Her underside feels very hard - apart from her mammary tissue which is soft. There is no sign of milk in the teats and no signs of mucus or strings etc from her back end. She looks a little protruded in that area - almost baggy and soft so that it sags when she goes for a wee. She would be due thursday/friday from 1st mating and saturday/sunday from second. She is happy within herself, bright eyed, smiling (might sound strange but she does) and apart from tonight all meals have been polished off. She did a little digging on the carpet under the dining table mid afternoon but not much more.

I know all girls are different. I know my other girl went 5 days early. I know that although this girl is much bigger than my other one was - this is not indicative of litter size and I also think not having anything to really compare with last time made it easier than this time.

I can't pin point it but I am tying myself in knots and although I am not superstitious I am freaking out over every cat that crosses the road in front of me, every magpie in the garden and my right eye keeps twitching (in south Asian cultures this is a bad omen and the left is lucky for women - opposite for men). Although I know they can't really tell me anything I am thinking about taking her to the vet tomorrow because I am THAT paranoid.

Tell me I'm being daft. Tell me this is all normal and that I just need to calm down. You're all much more experienced than I am and I know I will listen to and believe you more than the vet!

Help!

I think every bitch I have ever bred from I have looked at towards the end and thought " oh what have I done to you"!! It is normal to not see much if any milk in glands yet,it will come in with the puppies and the swollen saggy vulva sounds very normal too. She just sounds very close now.

If you can avoid the vet in the morning I would..... Let her dig and dig and feel relaxed. A vet trip will stress you more as you will worry about picking up something and will probably gain nothing.

I feel for you... Builders and hormones not a good mix!

Thank you bucks mum.

As you can imagine, I'm wide awake and struggling to relax enough to sleep so I will suffer in the morning when I will be up at 6.

I shall try to avoid taking her in to the vet if possible and try to speak with him over the phone - he is usually happy to do so but I do believe in my heart that breeders here have a far more in depth wealth of knowledge in comparison and will feel more reassured by your words than his!

Hormone wise - the 2nd day is usually the worst for me so hopefully tomorrow will be better...

Oh I'm like that with magpies too -especially when travelling to a show. Day ruined if I see a single one!

I've had some bitches be as bouncy all along their pregnancy, but the one of mine who has a litter now was exactly like you describe, both this time and with her first litter. She had 13 pups both times -first time delivered on day 57, one was dead, second time delivered day 58, 2 dead pups. She's very large for her breed so I'd guess a very similar size to your bitch. SO, to me it all sounds normal, but I bet it won't be long now. The half hearted digging is a good sign I'd say. I bet she will lose the mucous plug soon.

I'm getting tearful again. You know that feeling you get when you just want your mum?

I think things are getting to me and I'm stressing about them all. There will be something that will become the 'straw that breaks the camel's back' and I'm not looking forward to the fall out. I don't like confrontation - hell I don't even like talking loudly when I am at home (although, in the classroom I can have a voice like a foghorn that travels through the length of the entire school) so I am not looking forward to the builder finally coming round tomorrow to see how much of a botched job he has done before he 'eff'ed off.

Hubby is useless when it comes to sympathy - tells me to pull myself together - as if that will work. He is snoring next to me right now (worked 13 hours today) and it is all I can do to stop myself from kicking him - hard- in the shin.

Sometimes I just wish my dad was still alive - he'd make everything better, I know he would. People say superheroes aren't real and that they don't exist. They do. My dad was one of them.

That's how I feel about my dad as well. Some days I would do anything to have him back even if just for a few minutes.

I must come across as such a sap - 34 years old and wanting her dad :(

Aw heck, look at me:  73 years old and stressing out over (mere!) poops and pees! 

In my breed (as well as the breeds of the friend I have mentioned on occasion, who has toy poodles and Loewchen) I can follow and assess the birth process pretty well after all these years.  But I need the temperature to do that.  Then I know where I (or we) am (are), at least for a start.  I can then (soon after the drop) determine for sure that 1st stage labor has begun (or not begun, as the case may be).

In any case, whelping is full of surprises (some wonderful, others not), and the little tortures we inflict upon ourselves along the way seem to be unavoidable.  Please keep us posted, and all the very best for a lovely and safe delivery!

Don't know anything about breeding but just hope you feel better this morning. X

Sounds as though she'll start pretty soon, hope all goes well

Why, I'm 52 and thank God daily I still have mine.

I do know how you feel, my GSD's were very like this and the one that whelped 12 had to be helped to her feet in the few days before the birth, the ligaments soften and it makes it harder for them to walk, she used to look at me so pathetically as if she has no idea why I should do this to her. She whelped with ease and speed and reared 10 without a fuss plus 2 orphan kittens who joined the family, I do feel for you, my OH was useless just popping his head round the door to see if there was another puppy and then going to bed!  We are with you in spirit and on the printed page!!

Thank you for all your kindness.

I really couldn't sleep last night so I hoovered the lounge, watched some more of Mr. Darcy, Read Muriel's book from cover to cover and finally when nothing else worked put soothing hymns on before being lulled to sleep after 1.30. I woke up at a quarter to six having had a dreadful dream where my mother (god rest her) has decided that I'm too tired to be woken up and has watched my girl have 13 puppies except she has never owned a dog let alone have any experience and the puppies aren't right. 5 are normal and healthy, one has an over large domed head as it would in the early stages of fetal development and the others are all pink and look like baby rabbits. She tells me that she thinks only the 5 will survive and that the others will drift off themselves and not to worry...

My girl on the other hand. is completely oblivious (as she should be) and fast asleep or sitting up and fidgeting into a more comfortable position while it is still cool outside. The poor ceiling fan has been on non stop since last monday and as can be expected from the law of sod, the air con has arrived but we have had nothing but thunderstorms for the last 3 days...

Ok, so for my own sanity I made a mad dash to the chemist this morning as I find it is easier and quicker to speak to them than the doctor. I explained everything that is happening with me and her advice was as follows:

Stop taking the panadol with caffine
Stop drinking coffee
Try drinkning mint tea
Take cocodemol instead
Take a couple of rennie or gripe water to settle the sicky feeling.

Things are a little better. My eye isn't twitching so much and and my stomach feels more settled. HOWEVER, not sure if talking to her has worked a miracle OR the fact that my girl has only eaten half of her breakfast and has been half heartedly digging under the dining table for over an hour...

One more suggestion .............Rescue Remedy..................lots of people use it for dogs and forget it works for people as well.
Hope she gets a move on and you feel better soon.

> I think every bitch I have ever bred from I have looked at towards the end and thought " oh what have I done to you"!! It is normal to not see much if any milk in glands yet,it will come in with the puppies and the swollen saggy vulva sounds very normal too. She just sounds very close now.

TOTALLY AGREE.    Every single time, towards the end of the pregnancy, I go to thinking this.   Fact is (and not seeing your bitch, I can only generalise) most probably these puppies have dropped, getting in line and ready to come into the world.   If you can avoid having to take her to a vet, DO.    She may well have a load there, and WILL be uncomfortable.   But in a few days time, it will all be over and you'll have a lovely litter of new babies to worry over!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rescue Remedy (or a good slug of Brandy - which is all that is!! - maybe not a great idea if you have to get in your car and off to the vet at some point), deep breath and remember if you are stressed, you are NOT helping her.

"Some days I would do anything to have him back even if just for a few minutes."    Oh HOW I'd love to have mine back, if just to have some questions I need answering by him, answered.   But I never will, unless we do meet on the other side

Oh and camomile tea.   Def. no caffine.

Also what works for me is to tell myself it will pass in a day or two and things will appear differently:) you mentioned being hormonal and on day 2. On my cycles day 2 and 3 felt like the world was ending and I was overwhelmed by everything . I had to force myself to not take any notice of my anxieties on these days and I would deal with them in say a week if they were still bothering me. The world always looked better by then and I knew it was my hormones making me overwhelmed by everything. Doesn't work at the moment as I'm 5 months pregnant so emotional every day!!!

Be kind to yourself now. You will be sleep deprived very soon and once your lovely girl has whelped just fine you will feel a massive sense of relief.
Agree Rescue remedy is great and if someone can sit with your girl for an hour or two I would go and have a drink with a friend to get a change of scenery... Helps get a better sense of perspective :)

The half hearted digging continues so I am guessing the puppies might be starting to line up.

I don't drink but it's at times like these I really wish I did! All wine tastes like vinegar to me, whiskey makes my tummy twist and brandy has me stripping off! (Due to heat and not general randiness!)

The sad, sad thing about living here is that I have no friends in this city and my only real local friend was my elderly  ex next door neighbour Doris before she passed away. I have tried to make friends with the new neighbours but they aren't as welcoming as the previous lot. No one knows about my girl except for my sister and brother in law and an aunt but they live well over an hour away added to the fact that my sister is also 6 months pregnant and isn't travelling well.

Only one of my puppy parents knows and she is caring for her sick mother in america! It doesn't rain it pours round these parts :)

However, talking about the weather, it has stopped raining so I might just go and pot up a couple of tomato plants while I've got the chance - god knows I won't be leaving her side when things really get going...

You think it's bad now wait a couple weeks till their getting solid food and their screaming the place down like their starving not to mention conveyer belt piles, puddles, barking, whinning to get out to play, play fighting and the absolute fun of trying to worm the wrigglers so much fun to look forward to.

Your post about your husband took me straight back to two years ago...I mated my girl and 2 weeks later fell down the stairs and broke all of my left ankle...hospital for 5 days, operation and non weight bearing for 7 weeks. My plaster was removed on the Wednesday morning and at midnight her waters broke on my bed, where I had to whelp her as I couldn't get down onto the floor and by 8am she'd had 12 puppies...my husband was useless..I cried every day for the 8 weeks until pups went to their new homes..I'm afraid men don't see things in the same way as us.

Try to keep positive, everything will be fine and yes, by the time the 8 weeks is up you'll be glad to see them off to their new homes lol..

The first 2 weeks are bliss...you get all the cuddles without the responsibility. By 3 weeks they want out of the whelping box so they go in the pen and mum can choose to come and go as she pleases. by 7 weeks I have had enough :) they were really good during the day and they even knew what time bed time was but 1st thing in the morning - I'd wake up to poo-a-geddon! They'd go in the designated area but then forget about it and smear it all over the place. Thankfully they have their own washing machine and the floor is lino :)

Biffsmum: To be fair to him, after working 12 to 13 hours every day he'd come home and clean out the pen, put the load in the washing, help with the feeding and then spend a good 40 minutes playing with them every night but anything to do with the back end of 'his girls' and he feels that he shouldn't be touching anything back there! I dread to think what his thought will be if we have a girl when we decided to get pregnant....

His biggest downfall is his lack of sympathy and 'get on with it' attitude. When the boot is on the other foot, I have a 6'5", 33 year old baby on my hands!

Won't be long now and we are all here for you, it's a shame we're not on the end of the phone as well. Just a warning about Co-codamol, it can make you very spaced out and sleepy and it tends to give you constipation so maybe not the thing if you need to stay awake and not be in the bathroom!!  Chocolate used to be my whelping friend although not very helpful it's comforting and only makes you fat, ho hum

> The half hearted digging continues so I am guessing the puppies might be starting to line up.<br />

I consider this the signs of First stage labour and have had them go to having pups between 0 and 36 hours (signs will intensify).

She has come to me a couple of times looking for reassurance but not much else going on. Vulva is soft and puffy, been out a couple of times and peed and a small poo. Nothing immanent but  I am hopeful it will be soon...digging has stopped for the time being.

I haven't taken the cocodemol. I have been swigging at the gripe water though and gone through half a bottle! My heart still feels a little heavy in my chest but the shaking and twitching has stopped for the time being...

> <br />I don't drink but it's at times like these I really wish I did! All wine tastes like vinegar to me

I don't believe this!  Another thing we  have in common.  Maybe I was you in a former life! 

>Nothing immanent but  I am hopeful it will be soon...digging has stopped for the time being.

So what's happening now????  (read:  "What's happening?  What's HAPPENING????????)

Hmmmm, Jean I think we need to settle this once and for all.....I don't like animals dressed as humans, people who don't indicate when switching lanes, people who pile enough food on their plates to feed a small army at an all you can eat buffet, when it's hot, tuesdays, Justin Bieber, feeling too hot and having to share my bed...

I love reading, watching re runs of the good life/open all hours/keeping up appearances and one foot in the grave, pork, cream cakes, coffee, going to the pictures and not spending money....

Now you go!

Nimue: nothing, absolutely nothing...still some digging but not excessive. She refused lunch and keeps wanting to jump on the sofa/bed but can't.  Maybe a car ride might get things moving?

Finished the bottle of gripe water.....even that's alcohol free so I'm not even an alcoholic in the looses sense of the word.

>Hmmmm, Jean I think we need to settle this once and for all.....I don't like animals dressed as humans, people who don't indicate when switching lanes, people who pile enough food on their plates to feed a small army at an all you can eat buffet, when it's hot, tuesdays, Justin Bieber, feeling too hot and having to share my bed...

You've got a soul-mate in me, that's for sure.  And all those old BBC soaps:  they are magnificent.  I used to be able to watch them when I had cable TV.  Now I live in the sticks, and have only satellite.  You did leave out some of my favorites though:  "You Rang M'Lord?", "To the Manor Born", and "Waiting for God" (whose theme song is a wonderful performance of Schubert's Trout Quintet).

Hoping your litter will arrive today!

Update:

We have 1 puppy.....she was digging half heartedly most of the morning. Still no sign of the plug or even any contractions.

She had the 1st - a large little girl, weighing in at 375g grams at 10.51am....and that's it! She can't possibly be done as she is the size of a small house and the scanner thinks she saw between 5-6 embryos. No contracting but stretching and lots of licking of the current pup...It's going to be a long day sitting on this cold floor with her...

> <br />Now you go!

Agree the toy dog dressing thing, it's why I won't sell to young people.  Mine are used to playing in the compost heap with the Collies!

I prefer dogs to people.  All my dogs think I'm perfect.  I don't need a second opinion.  I love the smell of freesias, new hay, leather and puppy breath.

Love milk chocolate, don't like dark chocolate.  I love reading and making knitted toys.  I don't have family so end up giving them to any children I meet.  I love driving alone in my car with the music turned up to deafening.  Enjoy watching 5USA.  Don't have satellite and can't imagine me ever wanting it.

I don't have an iPhone and often don't even know what I did with my mobile.  I love taking the dogs to the seaside and watching them run free on the beach.  I expect all of them to come to me when called.  Having a solid recall is my number one priority. 

I get so hot that I need a fan going all night in my bedroom.  Even in winter.  My favourite season is Autumn.  So relaxing and perfect.  Same here for the pork, cream cakes and coffee.  Don't ever drink tea.  Oh, and can't stand male chauvinist pigs!

Great news! Good luck! Some of mine never had obvious contractions at all, just a subtle shivering.

gsdowner

So pleased that she has started for you.  But it sounds like she is determined to make you wait!

There is no shivering, no contractions, she is obviously panting and she has had a couple of drinks of water. She is cleaning little miss black - who is currently enjoying sole access to the milk bar.

I know there can be long gaps between pups but how long should I wait before thinking about getting help? We are 2hrs and 16 minutes since first birth.

We had our first litter 3 weeks ago, so not in a position to give advice but just to say what happened with us.  First puppy born 07.30 and the next 3 came with 2 hour gaps, the fifth one with just a 1 hour gap, at which point we thought we were all done and dusted (scan said 3).  Then 7 1/2 hours later we were taken by surprise to say the least, and number 6 came along.  During the gaps she was calm and comfortable looking after her babies only took 3 or 4 pushes to deliver each one.  All 6 are doing fantastic.  Good luck.

2nd pup appeared to be stuck. Born rear feet first but was starting to go purple as sac was torn and paws visible. Mum doesn't seem to be contracting close together - quite a few minutes between each one when she does push. I will try to time them next time.

Pup was covered in mustard yellow fluid and had to be helped out with lubricant. Used a bulb syringe to clear airways and is now seeking food.

I was literally having kittens myself at having to help internally - heart beating 10 to a dozen and hands shaking...Boy was the 1st girl's whelping a piece of cake in comparison...

ETA: Mum seems to be leaking poo with contractions :(

Well done to get the 2nd pup out and breathing, the leaking poo is probably just because she is so full of puppies and the contractions squeeze the poo out as well.  Should go well from now, fingers crossed

I'm so glad the birth has taken off finally.  I would advise you to have the vet check into this "poo" thing, which has been going on for many days now.  I would want to rule out any kind of intestinal infection, which might be passed on to the newborns.  You could just take a poo sample to the vet.  Maybe she needs an antibiotic. 

Eager to hear that the other ones have been born and all is well.

Thank you :)

Yes we think we got her out in time as her face was also going purple as was her tongue. God bless the bulb syringe. She is a whopping 75g smaller than her sister.

I am going to get mum checked when this is all over and a shot to clear her out. So will raise the poo issue. She will need a good rub down as she is a complete mess once whelping is over.

Back to the waiting game.

Thinking of you and hoping all is well. Never known anything be so wonderful and terrifying all at once.

Birthing is walking a narrow line between life and death.  In fact, breeding is actually more or less the same.  We are trying to cope with something over which we basically have no control.

I get them in the car for a bumpy drive (with someone in the back to catch any pups born, and I bring the first pup in a box with hot water bottle) if no second pup within two hours. 

I did this with my most recent litter, as it was a Saturday evening so wanted to give a chance to get her going again as the emergency vets (Vets Now) half way across the other  side of the city, are not who I'd choose to use unless I really had to.

It did the job for  us and she produced all bar on of the rest at regular intervals and then last one (though I thought she had finished) after 5 1/2 hours, at dawn.

I think I might do the same as we had the 2nd pup at 2.46pm and although there was some tummy squeezing happening 15 minutes ago nothing has emerged. This girl is far too dignified compared to my other girl - who makes everything quite obviously known!

Have called the vet and they are aware as am watching the clock and think the emergency vet will need to be notified.

Mine went 4 hours between 1st and second pup then only 20 mins before third was born. I was panicking but vet was saying could be up to 7 hours - nerve wracking isn't it - good luck

I usually find that going into the garden for 5 minutes or as long as you can persuade her for and encouraging her to walk round was very helpful in stimulating contractions

We are at the vet. She is passing green fluid. Vet isn't  my normal chap. They are insisting on c sec....

Green fluid is very very normal,between puppies!! Abnormal before any pups have been  born but completely normal after first pup

They say it is too long between pups and haven't  even offered the pxytocin. They want to do a scan and then me to decide whether to c sec here or at vetcall as they are closing

Internal says pup close to being born but she isn't  pushing!

Good luck. Thinking of you.

I am so sorry this is turning out to be so traumatic.  I have been through it enough times to know what it feels like.

Quite frankly, I have not been very convinced over the past few days hearing about the diarrhea your girl has been having. Based on my experience, the signs of impending labor and now the labor itself have not been typical at all.  If it were my dog, I would opt for the C-section, simply because I wouldn't know what else to do.  I bet Mamabas would agree.

I do hope all turns out well.  I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking of you.

If she isn't pushing at all, I (personally) would go for a section at this stage.  Thinking of you.