Well I think we can safely say that things are definitely hotting up here at the Walton's!

Had my girl checked and vaccinated yesterday. She wasn't happy in the car and couldn't wait to get home - even though I had the car nice and cool....I think the movement was agitating her plus the fact that we were caught in commuter traffic for an hour on the way home :(

The disposable whelping box arrived yesterday and the 2 kilos of puppy milk came today...my postman (who lives across the road) has some inkling of what's going on but hasn't asked me yet. Just waiting on the washable inconti pads now and have asked the chap at the chip shop for 3 packs of paper.

Had to give my girl a bath yesterday as she had managed to cake her back end in poo :( first time it's ever happened. She was half heartedly pushing and then giving up. When I checked it (ew!) it was perfectly formed - not hard, white or sloppy so not sure if she didn't feel comfortable pushing or if it was getting caught in her petticoats so she has had a proper trim today - sooner than I would have done it but it's another job out of the way. Only 11 days to go officially - but something tells me I only have about a week or so...eeeek!!!

Hoping for a safe delivery for your girl and her puppies. Exciting days ahead for you

Do keep us in the picture as you go along!  I've forgotten:  do you have a large breed or a small one?  A birth is scary and wonderful and exciting and miraculous and stressful.  Hope it all goes well!

The clue is in gsdowner's name, I feel

Yes Nimue the clue is in the user name ;)

>Yes Nimue the clue is in the user name ;)

Duh......  Aw heck, clue me in, give me a hint.  Downer.  Tells me nothing.  Oh!    I've got it, I've got it!  Oh frabjous day!  It was the D which I found confusing.  Stands for Dog!  How about that!  That leaves "Owner"!  Well now, I'll have another cup of coffee on that one.

I love hearing all these experiences - for one thing it's the next best thing to having puppies of my own, and for another as I'm pretty inexperienced as a breeder it's all good learning!

Heres sending you a virtual prize.......Large golden trophy goes to.....Nimue! ;)

OK so today I am having an issue with loose poo. 'Momma to be' has been 3 times in the kitchen this morning! This is highly unusual for her. She has been known to pee indoors when in season and she knows she has done wrong as soon as she does it but poo indoors is very, very, very rare in our house and usually it's illness or whelping day. With the latter it is normally mucus-y and dark or mustard coloured as they lose the plug and clear out in readiness but we are still 8 days away from 1st due date and 10 from 2nd so I am not sure how to deal with it.

I went to bed late last night so let them all out for one last break at around 11.30. Hubby was up at 5am and she had already been. I got in the shower at 8.30 and came out to one. I fed them a little later today at 9 and she has been and done it again - however, this time she came back straight away to tell me she had been - not upset or worried in any way, just pointing out she'd been and it needed attention.

I'm not overly concerned about her doing it indoors and she hasn't been told off or anything as I know she can't help it but does this have anything to do with the CHV jab? I haven't changed her diet recently - she has raw as usual twice a day and I have added forthglade steamed meals at lunchtime. She is getting 400g of raw in each meal and a tray and half of forthglade mid afternoon. I did try to add raw instead but she didn't want it so this is the next best thing. She was fine with this routine since it started.

The poo is lose - almost whipped and there is nothing worrying about it but should I try to help her firm up a bit? I have lowered the bone content as advised by the raw diet so close to whelping but again this was done a little while back so nothing new there either.

Any advice please?

Oh dear, that's a bit worrying considering our 2nd herpes is on Monday.  Has anyone else had side effects like this from a herpes jab? 

gsdowner, was she ok after the first one?  Our girl was fine...

I am excited on your behalf and a bit envious, I bred your breed for nearly 20 years, only 8 litters though in that time, and they are amongst the loveliest of puppies, not generally the cleanest I must say.  Look forward to hearing from you with babies in due course

Yes Rabid she was fine from the first one but I am wondering if it is more to do with her size? She had the caked poo on her rear the other day and now she is making 'patties' on the kitchen floor. She is obviously uncomfortable and panting a lot - making me think she is likely to go earlier than the predicted due date of the 19th...

Thanks mixedpack.

My last litter were generally clean and fully house trained by 15 weeks old - bar one who had a UTI. I must admit however that they were notorious for eating their own poo for a couple of weeks and I was amazed when I'd wake up to a clean pen when they were aged 4/5 weeks old. Once this was addressed I was waking up to a disaster zone as they had played in it and smeared it all over the floor of the pen and each other! The problem was that although they were good at going on the designated area, they would forget and then roll in it!

Once, I cleaned out the pen and let them go outside for a play. I then got them back in and went to bring their breakfast - came back in exactly 7  minutes and one of the blighters had pooped on his brother's head as he slept!

Oooh, exciting....I shall be eagerly awaiting news !!

I do love your descriptions of poo "whipped" and "patties" make it sound so much better  lol   My last bitch was determined to have her puppies out in the garden and dug a cave behind a large conifer, she kept asking to go out and of course you think well she might need to pee so you let her and then she would be curled up in the cave. We did make her have them indoors but at about 3 weeks on a really wet day she decided to move them to the garden, we had the door open as it was July and in half an hour she had moved all 9 and I came down from having a shower to find them all soaking wet and covered in mud. Back to the shower for a wash and dry relay, then another shower for me and a lie down for everyone

OMG, bonkers!  I wonder why she thought that was a good idea...

Wow, she sounds really big gsdowner - is she?  My girl is basically rectangular when looked at from the side but if looked at down from above, you can't really see anything.  In other words, she has expanded downwards rather than outwards(!).  Her poos are totally firm though and everything as normal. 

Have you increased her food by too much as that could cause loose poos?

I am really hoping we don't have a huge litter, 6 would be perfect...

<one of the blighters had pooped on his brother's head as he slept!>

Dogs are great aren't they? You've gotta love them!

Yes - especially as they wait for that one second you look at something else!

ETA: the u-boat has been and done another lose poo....

And another one... :(

This can't be normal surely? Called the vet and have been told to observe and ensure she is hydrated.

Are all these happening inside, or is she asking to go out?  I hope she hasn't picked something up :(

What day is she on? Could she be clearing herself out ready for the birth?

> This can't be normal surely?

I think it would be wise to have everything ready for a whelping tomorrow.  Just in case. 

I was going to type something else until I read Rozzie retriever's post.  Exactly what was in my head. 

If she whelps tomorrow then pups are perfectly viable.  My bitches go 56 days as the norm.

I think gsdowner did progesterone testing, so knows when ovulation was - so there's not such a broad window....

Rabid: The first 3 were inside, the latest 2 were outside. Apart from the vet, she hasn't been anywhere and no one has been here.

Goldmali: She is on day 53 from second mating which is when the scanner (very experienced) thinks she took and 55 from 1st mating.

JeanSW: She could be clearing out. I have checked her foof and everything seems ok. clean, no discharge etc.

Rabid: I didn't test as my boy is pretty spot on. When she went to the stud she wasn't keen on the 2nd mating so we know we got her there in time.

Tonight is my last night of commitments. I have told dog club this is my last night, pops won't be coming for dinner, shopping has been done and all of my appointments have been concluded until the 28th at the earliest. She seems hot but content, trying to find a cooler spot. No digging, no whining, no laborious panting...

Oh my gawd, how exciting...   It could be soon then...

Today we made a cardboard cover for the whelping box, just for the rear of it, so she feels more protected inside there, and we made the extra cardboard base to chuck away after whelping (I say 'we', I mean mainly my dearly beloved, I could not make anything at all, ever)... 

I am really missing high octane training sessions, and working towards competition etc etc at the moment, part of me knows that when the pups go, both me and my girl will be so happy to get back to all that We're not keeping one, so it will be great to have something to distract me!  I am semi-planning a training trip for November at the moment...

How are the poos this evening, gsdowner? 

I just took my girl for a toddle up the road in the almost-dark, I didn't want to take her out in the heat earlier... I feel like I'm woefully under-exercising her, but she is huge now

I came back from training - having left hubby in charge and he had missed her taking a poo in the conservatory. I then went to do a last check on supplies around 10.30 and she had done one in their feeding conservatory. Didn't come to tell me either - almost stepped in it as I went to sort out the bins for the morning. This time is was the mucus-y brown type. I think we are getting closer...

Arrrgggghhhhh! MEN! Before going to bed last night I drummed in to him that as soon as he got up in the morning he needed to let princess pushy out. I got up at 2am and 4am and she needed to go. He gets up at half 5 and then me at 6 telling me he was in the bathroom and she'd been in the hall. I told him to let her out whilst I saw to the cleaning up, only to have him question why as she already been....'Just do it' I said, she promptly went out and did another. Apparently I'm a know it all now...

If I kill him will you lot give me an alibi???

We are back to warm brown soup consistency...

I found the Onken set bio yogurt (half a pot a day) stopped bad diarrhoea very quickly in my nursing bitch with mastitis.

is that half of the larger pots brainless?

I really feel for you gsdowner, we just went through the constant pooping thing with our older dog (suspected giardia - metronidazole fixed it) and it is really stressful.  And she wasn't pregnant!!

You don't really want to give her any meds, so it's a tough one.  Ask your vet if you can give kaolin or probiotics, or Protexin paste in the syringe thingy during pregnancy...

Yep, couple of tablespoons each meal (she was on 4 meals)

Has anyone else done the herpes jab and had this as a side effect?  Just a bit worried, as ours is on Monday!

> <br />If I kill him will you lot give me an alibi???

Don't worry.  It's called justifiable homicide. 

Lol! He popped home today to pick up a file and found me knee deep in paper shredding. If he calls, I am usually breathless from putting whatever I am doing down, running a krypton factor dog gauntlet to answer the phone and then wonders why I am a bit short. Although, I tend to answer the phone in a huff generally as its 99% of the time a marketing call or for someone called 'Miss Vanessa Hardy'

I swear he thinks I sit at home all day watching Indian soaps on the telly or messaging on facebook...and his meals, the washing, the dishes. the hoovering etc are done by fairies - either that or I bribe the local wildlife in to do it Disney film styley!

I won't be medicating my girl Rabid as we are so close to whelping, it's not worth the risk. The husband will be bringing home some yoghurt when he leaves work. I gave her some cooked chicken with a couple of tablespoons of rice and she ate like she was famished and yet if I offer food 4 times a day she doesn't want it. She hasn't refused anything really except for the adding of a 3rd raw meal - preferring the forthglade and everything is polished off. I am wondering if her point blank disregard for a 4th meal is making her eat a bigger meal than she can cope with and making her loose?

Back end will need another wash - just waiting for him to get home and hold her steady so I can wash her petticoats, don't see the point in giving her an all out bath again so soon after the other day :( Her tummy has dropped quite low over the last few days, she has become rather flat footed in her hind legs and her belly is quite hard. I really don't envisage her going past monday at the mo. I know it sounds silly but sometimes I look at her in disbelief and think...it's probably just gas!!!

>I know it sounds silly but sometimes I look at her in disbelief and think...it's probably just gas!!!

At about this time (last days before the great event), I find myself looking at the Mum-to-be and thinking:  "They have to get out of there!  How on Earth are they ever going to get out of there?!" 

I'm thinking that already!

>I'm thinking that already!

Ha, ha!  I bet you are! 
And then, when the birth takes off and they come out, one after one, you're thinking:  "Well sure!  Of course!"

> The husband will be bringing home some yoghurt when he leaves work.

Make sure it's live, the best known/easy to find  is the Onken bio set natural

Yes I will do...we only ever use live ourselves. Morrisons do a lovely one. Stupidly I used the last of it this morning to make yoghurt curry for tonight!

Hi Rabid,

Just wondering the reason for this mating if you don't plan on keeping one. I know a fair few who don't always but they have a reason for it and normally its because one of the pups will go to someone to carry on their lines for them or go into partnership with a dog.

We need to have more time with this dog, to compete with her and focus on achieving things with her. It's too soon to have a puppy from her - she's only 2yo.

We will have a litter from her when she is 5-6yo and plan to keep a pup from that. Obviously that would be too old for a first litter...

> <br />Just wondering the reason for this mating if you don't plan on keeping one

You read my mind.

>Just wondering the reason for this mating if you don't plan on keeping one

I get the impression that it is generally considered unacceptable to do what to me seems quite natural and worthwhile:  to breed good dogs for good people.  If I and my breeding colleagues (the few of us there are here in Switzerland nowadays, totaling at present exactly 3 in the entire country) were to breed our Cotons only when we can consider keeping one ourselves, there would be so few puppies available that people would be obliged to buy their cotons abroad (or out of the trunks of East-European cars on Autobahn parking lots maybe).  I have always wanted to breed good dogs for good people and that is still what I intend to do.  Now and then along the way I have kept the one or the other for myself.

I don't understand the implication that anything else is irresponsible.

Hopefully I've explained that now?

We have previously had two dogs with 2yrs between them and it was a disaster. The older dog had won many tests and was just starting in trials. The puppy came along. And we had to focus on her - that was pretty much the end of the older dog's competitive career. Yet the puppy didn't get the attention she needed to the degree she needed either and was overshadowed by the older dog, so she didn't achieve her potential either. Since then we will always have a much larger gap between dogs. We also want to keep our line going, without having a million dogs, so they need to be more spaced out.

We would not want to have a first litter at 4yo: At 4yo, a dog is in her prime and peak & we don't need another dog to work, at that stage. I also wouldn't want to wait till 4yo to have a first litter from a dog I really want a pup from - all it takes is a miss or two, or something to come up making it hard to raise a litter that year - and we're out of time. There's no way I'd want to cut it so fine. This is the first litter we've bred, despite the successes of our previous dogs in tests and trials - because we got to 4yo and it wasn't ok for us to have a litter those years. One year, our house was too small, the next, I had a surgery. So they were spayed - we left it too late.

If we have a first litter at 2yo, we get that out of the way and we can spend the next 3/4yrs uninterrupted by pups or breeding, to work & compete. On the basis of pedigree alone, and her early achievements, & the stud's achievements, the pups are v desirable.

By 5-6yo, it's time to start passing the baton to the next generation so there are still a good few years before her retirement to teach the pup we keep, the ropes. And we have several years, till 8yo, to try.

I am a little bemused that I'm having to explain this, though... It doesn't really have anything to do with the questions in this thread or gsdowner's situation (the person who began the thread). I think that some people just like to pick arguments and holes in what anyone else is doing, for the sake of it.

What we are doing has been very carefully thought out... We are not having 4 litters from her. We are having two, and the purpose of the first litter is to buy us time with the second.

We seem to be a little better this morning. I let her out last thing last night and things seemed to be semi-formed and I didn't wake up to any puddings on the floor this morning. She looks so weird with her back end trimmed so short but as the husband says - it'll end up soaked in fluids during the birth and fall out afterwards anyway, poor thing....

I know we've been taking it for a while but could panacur be the culprit? Or could it be the weather? It's been so hot and muggy here for the last week or so but the clouds opened yesterday and boy did it pour. I really thought the noise might get her going at one point.

Right now she's laying next to the bed, spread out and enjoying the cooler air from the fan, no panting, no fidgeting...just relaxed.

But thank you for explaining rabid, because some of us are total newbies, so clueless and just downright nosy!  Your explanation makes perfect sense, and it was good to read a different perspective as this site is full of "only breed if YOU want a puppy" and this shows a different perspective which is equally valid.

>Your explanation makes perfect sense, and it was good to read a different perspective as this site is full of "only breed if YOU want a puppy" and this shows a different perspective which is equally valid.

Please count me in on this, and see my post above.

You raised it by typing it on here. I was merely interested in your reasoning behind it and you've explained it.

The heat certainly made my pup looser!  And he brought his food back a few times too (not full on vomit, just regurgitating).  I asked the vet about it all yesterday when he was in for his 2nd jab, and she said they'd had a fair few calls about loose stools through the heat, so maybe it was a combination of factors?

>I know we've been taking it for a while but could panacur be the culprit?

I am no fan of Panacur.  Yes, it DID cause diarrhea in a female of mine.  And I will always suspect that it was the cause of the ailment which nearly ended the lives of two 3-weel-old puppies of mine a couple of years ago.  I can't prove it, but the circumstances would definitely point to that. 

I cannot believe that the runs your girl is experiencing have anything to do with the impending birth.  Quite frankly.