Well, I'm pretty sure our girl is pregnant! She is getting bigger by the day (6wks today) & I haven't increased her food yet. We have no tuck-up or waist and pretty big belly already.

(The stud owner said not to increase food, till 7wks, but that is later than everything I've read says...thoughts??)

Next week, the whelping box goes up - aaaarrrggggg!!!

And need to book the 2nd herpes soon!

I can't quite believe we're doing this!!

I didn't increase food until the last 2 weeks, puppies born were small but no issues in them coming out and they grew on well. I didn't want my girl getting too big plus she's not the biggest and we were worried if the pups got too big in her we might have issues in the delivery.

It's very exciting Rabid! I think you have caught us all up in the adventure, can't wait to hear how it goes! Will be thinking about you lots when the time comes. Hope all goes well for you both xxxx

Ooh sounds promising then ☺

I didn't increase the amount of food before whelping AT ALL.   I didn't want a fat bitch (even if mine were able to accommodate more food once they were big - if anything they had smaller but more frequent meals, concentrating on the protein content, not the bulk) prior to whelping.   Only after I knew how many puppies she was catering for, did I up her food intake.   Provided your bitch is having a good quality food, and was before being mated even, she'll be fine.    Her puppies will take all they need prior to being born.   Our puppies were almost always around 18 oz, birth weight which is perhaps slightly above normal for my breed.  So clearly not lacking in nourishment.

Fantastic.

When would they be due (roughly)

Excellent thanks for that food advice everyone.  I've read so many different things.  One canine nutrition book I have, says to increase food from 4 weeks(!).  Other books say 5.5wks, or 6 wks - and the stud owner says 7 wks. 

I have been giving her Orijen and Bob and Lush, which are both high protein, and supplementing that with chicken, pork, lamb, chicken liver - used for training.  So I haven't given her more quantity, but I have used higher protein.  Quite a bit of liver, too, as I read that was good.  No cheese or dairy products as I didn't want to increase calcium before whelping.  (Right?)

Yes, my worry is not creating big puppies and a difficult birth too.  She is a very small bitch for her breed (20kg) and as she was showing at 5wks, I worry she might have a lot in there, so I don't want to feed the puppies up just yet(!).

Jodi, they are due 22nd June :)  We are at 6wks now, 3 weeks to go.

Like Mamabas I don't give much extra until Mum is feeding pups. I do change things a little (Raw fed) and give more protein and better quality meat (the girls eat anything usually !!) They get a bit more organ meat and although the quantity stays much the same I cut the veg down (they have veg for bulk to give them a fuller dish ) and compensate with meat/bones/fish/eggs.
Once pups are here and feeding well then as soon as Mums appetite kicks in and milk production is in full flow (I find this happens about 2 - 3 days post birth I feed more until by 2 weeks Mum is fed to appetite, often 3 times her usual rations.  By 5 -6 weeks once pups are eating well alone I cut right back to normal for Mum.
Its too easy to overfeed a bitch in pup, they will give the puppies everything they need as long as they are normally fed a good diet. If like me you feed less and bulk with veggies etc (My breeds lazy and can easily run to fat) then just adjust the content not the quantity. Unless your bitch starts to feel ribby then a maximum of 1 and 1/2 times normal feed is fine until after pups are born.
Aileen

Well we are 3 days ahead of rabid and today I have finally given in and upped my girl's meals to an extra 1/2 portion. She is wider in the ribs and is hanging lower but she has a really drawn in waist. I'm not convinced she is carrying a large litter but I do wonder why her waist is still so trim. She actually looks like she needs extra feeding already. When she came to me with her 2 week old pups in tow, she was already skin and bone so she is the type who will come out looking worse for wear once pups are weaned.

Must also book the 2nd CHV vacs for her too :)

ETA: I wouldn't normally have done this till mid way through week 7.

Jodi, they are due 22nd June :)  We are at 6wks now, 3 weeks to go.

I like to give hard-cooked egg yolks to my pregnant lady.  They are a good source of zinc, and it is said that zinc is important for the contractions (or something...).  Anyhow, modern day gurus of nutrition have taken eggs off the black list, and instead now recommend them as an excellent source of vitamins and minerals (for us all!).  I give the yolks crumbled into the puppies' food as well.

Yes, it's true:  after having accompanied you on your boat from Guernsey to the mainland, rejoiced with you over the success of the long-awaited mating, offered advice about puppy-buyers vs. time-wasters, and now waited with you for the definite signs of pregnancy, we will hardly be able to contain our eagerness over the up-coming birth!

Great, isn't it! 

Personally would not feed liver to pregnant bitches as it contains high levels of vitamin A - in excess this can trigger birth defects
Pregnant women are advised not to eat liver
Cod liver oil should also not be used for same reason

http://www.provet.co.uk/petfacts/healthtips/vitamina.htm

Oh gosh, well that's a bit scary.  I haven't been giving her loads on a daily basis, I've just chopped it up to use as training treats on a few occasions - hopefully not enough to be too much vitamin A.  I didn't want to give her hotdog sausages and processed meats.

The study quoted says they fed dogs 125,000 IU of Vitamin A per kilogram of body weight, daily - which is a ridiculous amount - given to Beagle bitches on days 17-22. 

In 100g of chicken liver, which is about the amount I gave my girl each time, there's 14,378 IU - total (not per kg of body weight!).  I think it might be impossible to feed that much vitamin A using liver.

The book I was reading (by a vet) said it is an excellent source of zinc and folic acid...  I'm pretty sure if you fed that much of any one nutrient, you'd probably cause birth defects - including iron, phosphorus etc etc. 

Anyway, I will keep all crossed - hopefully someone else has fed liver during pregnancy and not ended up with cleft palettes and can make me feel better?!

Small amounts should be fine - I always aviod liver and liver oils in pregnacy to be on safe side.

I think it's breed dependent.  Also how your dog holds condition.  Ignore the belly and monitor body conditon, fi the ribs are getting more prominent and pin bones/spine then up the grub/

Mine certainly need the extra as their normal maintenance rations are quite low for a dog their size.

I was on holiday when she was week 7 and gave instructions to feed a bit more, but I think their bit was not what I meant which was half as much again, and she was a hatrack at whelping.

Oh Lordey!  Exciting, nerve/wracking LOL

My girl is 4 and a half weeks today if she's pregnant, although there are no obvious signs as yet.  That said, the past few days she has taken to finding the coldest floor she can and lays on it and only once (yesterday) was she panting as though she was either hot or in pain!  The problem I have here is that Flossie if very excitable and always has her tail going a mile a minute and pants with it, so I have no way of telling if there is anything different.  Since the last puppies went, almost a year ago, she has been digging every  so often and sometimes, when I pick her up, she dithers.  This worried me and some months back, I took her to my vet for a check up and he found nothing wrong with her, so I assumed that she had developed a habit.  She wasn't unhappy with it so I have just gone with it and tried to ignore it in case it's attention seeking.

I have noticed that she's gone off her food a  little and she's not 100% happy although she isn't unhappy either.  As soon as she sees me, her tail goes up and is wagging like mad, which it wouldn't if she was in pain or unhappy.  I did think she had a bit of a podge the other day, but not today, so maybe it was wishful thinking on my part. She's only a dot and has only had four pups each of the last two times she was pregnant and it wasn't until right at the end...like 6-7 weeks...that you could really tell my looking and feeling, so I'm not really concerned about that, but I find myself worrying about this odd behaviour , no not odd, unusual for her.  I can't wait until Thursday when she has her scan so I can see if she is pregnant and also to see if there appears to be any problems, such as infections or anything.  She's had her CHV and is due the second one around 15th June so I just have my fingers crossed that she's OK.
What a worry this breeding lark is!!!

What a worry this breeding lark is!!!

Oh it is indeed!  How well I know that "thud" in the stomach somewhere upon hearing dire tales and warnings about something one has - with the best of intentions - just (or sometimes) done (such as giving liver or milk products or carrots or whatever happens to be the culprit under discussion).  You feel like you have surely now jinxed everything you were working towards!  But with little mishaps (not to be confused with big mishaps), everything usually turns out just fine.

I panicked last fall when I learned that the trusted (for years!) horsemeat sausage I was giving my two pregnant females (who were turning up their noses at everything else!) contained - to my horror - a whole host of preservatives, and the butcher selling them (he makes them himself) couldn't tell me what they were!  He said, "Well it is a powdered mixture, but you haven't had any problems, have you?"  I felt like replying, "Not YET!"  I won't be giving my dogs that sausage anymore, but as far as the pregnancies were concerned, nothing at all went wrong!  I guess we should not forget that nature wants pregnancy to succeed, and it takes some doing to disturb it significantly.  Nevertheless I do pay serious attention to the admonishments in the books and what I learn through others, for instance that one must be careful during those two weeks when the internal organs are forming.  And I try to avoid contact with chemicals of all kinds.

My girl has had two litters previously and both times I bottled it and took her to the vet who gave her oxytocin to deliver the puppies.  The reason I bottled it was that the water bag came out and the first time, the bag was hanging there for 2 and a half hours with no puppies and no pushing.  Second time I decided to be brave and wait longer and left it for 4.5 hrs before phoning the vet for advice....which to bring  her in of course.
I have asked so many people how long the water bag was hanging before a puppy emerged but I've yet to hear anyone say they waited longer than me!  Even the vet will only commit to "It can take ages can't it"  That is my only worry but so many people say that I ought to just wait and let nature take it's course but I'm not sure I have enough courage to wait for that length of time

Anyway, she has her scan tomorrow so I should find out "if" and "how many".  Last time she was scanned and the scanner said five but there were only four so tomorrow should be interesting.  Will let you know tomorrow xx

I don't know how many litters you have had to date, but I just want to say that the waterbag does not ALWAYS emerge first.  In fact, in my experience, seldom. I am not even sure why that sometimes happens and sometimes (mostly) not.

Have you felt the puppies move yet rabid?

No, can I do that at 6wks? I thought we had to wait longer.

I do have a stethoscope but I can't find them with that either! It's a really crap and cheap stethoscope though!!

Don't panic if you don't feel them yet.  I only detect mine moving at around 7 1/2 to 8 weeks.

Last time my short coated girl was carrying 10 and I couldn't see or feel them at all...she was the size of a small house amd a total ladette towards the end whereas the current girl is very lady like and proper :) her belly is beginning to hang now.

How is your girl today after the awful experience you had???

She is doing much better thanks Nimue. I posted an update on the thread :)

This is only my third litter and each of the two previous litters presented a water bag first and it hung there for hours, hence the vet.  There isn't anyone I've spoken to who has said what you have so maybe it's breed dependent....although I doubt that to be the case...pregnancy is pregnancy I guess.

I couldn't hear mine even at term so I guess it must depend on which way the puppies are  lying x

How's your gilr doing today?

I've just booked our 2nd herpes jab for Mon 13th.  She is due Weds 22nd, so this is 9 days before she's due and the instructions say to give it 1-2 weeks before due date.  So, it's ok right?

What happens when people's bitches whelp earlier or later than expected and they've done their herpes 1-2 weeks before when they thought it would be?  Does it still work ok?

I have only ever seen the water bag within minutes of a birth, or not at all

Mine is booked for this coming monday Rabid and mine is due on the 19th from the 2nd mating...I just let the nurse work it out over the phone.

Oh gosh that's true, do we work it out from first or second mating?  I've gone with when I think ovulation probably was, based on when the LH surge was from progesterone testing.  When was your ovulation date?   Should I move mine earlier?? 

I don't think she'll be earlier than what I've worked out but she could be later if she ovulated a bit later than when I think. 

I'm assuming that the Eurican herpes people have taken all this into consideration and there's a pretty wide ballpark in terms of timing!?? 

My vets has never had anyone order this in and are basically just doing what I tell them, so no one to work it out for me

It's very rare for me to have litters born as late as 63 days, in both my breeds. The great majority of my litters are born between 58 and 60 days, but have been as early as 55. This of course can vary between breeds and bitches. I've never done progesterone testing (and never had a failed mating). Once a bitch gave birth on day 57 and she'd had the second herpes jab just four days earlier. I was really worried because with this particular mating there was reason to suspect that the stud dog had been exposed to herpes. (Long story not really relevant.) We had a large litter, one stillborn pup, all the others were fine.

Thanks, do you think I will be ok with 2nd herpes at Day 55?  I wanted to see the same vet we saw last time (who will come out to the car park) and she's not always at this practice. 

I am hoping the Eurican folks have worked it out that, even if litters arrive earlier than expected, there is still time for the bitch to develop antibodies for herpes before pups arrive if it's given 1-2 weeks before due (and they come earlier)??

My dog was 1st mated Tues 19th but I reckon she ovulated on Weds 20th April, going by progesterone testing and LH surge being 48hrs before that.  She could have ovulated later than this, but not earlier - due to progesterone testing.

If she did ovulate Weds 20th April, pups should be pretty reliably 63 days from this, plus or minus a day.  (Weds 22nd, plus or minus a day).  The reason I went for a bit later with the jab rather than earlier, is because we know for sure that she did not ovulate earlier than 20th April - as LH surge was 48 hrs before that (progesterone tested).  So: She really shouldn't be earlier than Tues 21st June - BUT, if she ovulated later, which is possible (2nd mating Fri 22nd April), she could well be later by some days.  And I wanted to be sure to cover that with the 2nd herpes date!

Yours over-complicatedly....

I've had a heck of a time trying to figure out what the instructions about the timing of the Herpes jabs actually try to communicate.  No one I have spoken to (breeders and vets) seems to be quite sure, but it also does not seem to be an issue of such precise timing either!

In German I've read the following on the internet:

First jab:  either during the heat or else 7 to 10 days after the mating.  I find this rather confusing, as the heat is still continuing after the mating, so I "guess" it means that you can do the jab from the onset of the season and until 10 days after the mating.

Second jab:  1 to 2 weeks before the expected date of birth

So I doubt that it is a question of a day or two in either direction.

What most do here where I live is to go for the second herpes jab and at the same time make that ONE ex-ray to count spines and heads!  So about 10 days or so before the expected birth.

Ok, that's good because mine is 9 days before expected birth :)

We are getting alarmingly big now, at 7 weeks

Don't be alarmed! 

Hope all goes well for a safe delivery for your girl and her puppies.. hope you get rest too during busy early weeks

Two weeks still to go!!!  This week, I am focussing on putting up the whelping box and clearing out the spare room for when they start climbing out the whelping box!

>hope you get rest too during busy early weeks

My puppies are nearly 7 weeks old, and it's NOW that I am getting exhausted!  Those early weeks were a piece of cake!  Mum did everything!  And I enjoyed just spoiling Mum!  Now the puppies need ME!  Think clean-up-clean-up-clean-up... 

I don't know about your girl Rabid but mine is really suffering in this heat. We were 28 degrees yesterday and I had the ceiling fans on in every room for her. Poor thing is panting like she's ready to pass out.

I haven't taken mine out today, mostly for that reason - we did some clicker training in the house involving attention and 'watch me'.  She is ok lying around at home, and not suffering then.  It's only out on walks.  She is black as well, which attracts the heat.

My black girl loves the heat and will sit in the conservatory until you tell her off. Even in the winter, If I get the fire going, she will be sleeping in front of it until you can smell her fur burning!

This girl spent most of yesterday under the dining table - thankfully my lounge is in the middle of our bungalow and so all light is secondary apart from one window which only allows direct sunlight in very late on in the evening. Fan has been going since about 10am and she is happily passed out in front of it. Her daughter has the best spot however, on the sofa!

A handy trick is to freeze plastic pop bottles of water wrap in a towel and leave around near where they like to lie and it will keep things cooler at their level, having a fan blow on them will spread the cooled air..  Used for hot pups too.

Thanks Barbara, will keep this in mind :)

I would question the fan blowing on the puppies.  I once let my 9-week-old puppies sleep in an open door to the garden, as it was so hot.  They were all sick the next day.  Sore throats.  I suppose it amounted to sleeping in a draft.  I am very respectful of drafts and try to avoid them totally.

> I would question the fan blowing on the puppies.

I think Brainless meant the fan is blowing on the frozen bottles rather than on the puppies- that way it's blowing cooled air around the room the pups are in.

> the fan is blowing on the frozen bottles rather than on the puppies- that way it's blowing cooled air around the room the pups are in

Yep, always suround my puppy pen with cardboard to keep out drafts.