My dog is going for an annual booster tomorrow.
It is 3 years since her last and I've been given the 'she needs to start again' rubbish.
She is having Nobivac 4. Can anyone point me in the direction of the info for this new vaccine that shows that she doesn't need to start all over again, and that it is meant to be 3 yearly ?
( I've found the 3 yearly bit for the old vaccine but not the new)
I don't want to be pushed into something I don't want while at the appointment - I want to go fully armed with evidence !!!
I'm not a fan of vets at the best of times but needs must.....

If she hasn't had Nobivac 4 before, and if you want her covered for lepto, then she does need 2 jabs - that is required by the new lepto component of the jab to ensure it's effective.

If you don't care about lepto 4, then you're right, you only need one jab for the other components of the vaccine. 

Frankly, I only give puppy jabs and 1st year booster and then i don't vaccinate after that.  So I would just skip it entirely, if it were me.

if you are on fb go to canine health group the info is on there at least I think that's the last place I saw it .  As for starting again for any all vaccines  are expected to last 3 years + and if you look at articles by Ron Shultz and Dr Jean Dodds you will see that immunity is expected to be present for 7 years or more. The research stopped at  7 years
Wsava guidelines which are available online may help as well . remember and I am sure you do its your dog not the vets so your choice.

You could also titre test if you wished but if you do research how to read the results as some peole will be told titre doesn't mean anything. basically ist a snap shot of what immunity is and if the immune system hasn't recently been challenged the antibodies may not b represent but it doesn't mean you dog isnt immune. that's the tricky bit which requires a bit of faith.
as rabid said re lepto which together with  kc is one that doesn't do 3 years its actually doesn't even cover a full year and only some strains. its also one that there are grave doubts about the number of more serious side effects than even the others. Point to ask ois how many cases of lepto your vet has seen in the last 12 months

I won't give the Lepto either 2 or 4 as, after research, I believe the risks of the jab far outweigh any possible risk of infection. After all, despite there being human Lepto vaccines, people don't use it, even those in high risk occupations such as sewer workers as the vaccine is ineffective and dangerous. Also, if Lepto was so common, I'd think vets would also have the jab.

You can have the core Nobivac for DHP but it's best to check your vet stocks it as, even after speaking to head vet, mine was given DHPPi, which vet agreed parainfluenza wasn't worth giving - thankfully no Lepto.  
I titre tested my 20 week pup 4 weeks after his 2nd puppy jab and my 14 month when 'annual' vaccines due and their results were practically the same. Needless to say, older pup doesn't need any more.

Is it possible just to have the Nobivac DHPPi or does it have to be mixed with the Lepto ?
I'm thinking of not giving Lepto but the DHPPI and Pi is a powder so needs mixing with fluid.

There is a good Facebook group with lots of info on lepto 4 and how to avoid it called Nobivac Lepto 4 - our experiences. If you ask there someone will know.

Yes, you can have either just the Nobivac DHPPi or Nobivac DHP , that's what I've just done, well about 6 weeks ago.
The Lepto Fbk group and CHC give lots of information

https://m.facebook.com/groups/322967551247441?ref=bookmarks

https://m.facebook.com/groups/50163890984?ref=bookmarks

Can I ask why you didn't have Lepto ?

The adverse effects of the vaccines far outweigh the benefits IMHO.  The initial ones have to be given 2 weeks apart and 'protection doesn't start until 4 weeks after, then it may only last a few weeks/months.  It only covers 4 out of over 200 serovars.  Providing you are aware of the signs of illness it is very treatable by antibiotics.  Just like with kids and chickens pox, dogs can build up their own immunity.  As I said before,  people in jobs that are open to it don't have it due to the dangerous side effects and inadequacy of protection.
I have used Nosodes, though.  There was an outbreak in Cuba, I think, where they also used Nosodes and the results were far better than any vaccine.

Do look at the groups though - you can then research and make up your own mind, as I have.  Just be aware that not all vets are uptodate with the evidence - I actually sent a fair bit of information to mine, preferring to work with them about this as they do discuss and listen.
Whatever you decide, you'll be doing what you believe is right for your dog.

I went with titre testing.
Hopefully she won't need a booster.

I've got to say I think that's the best.  It doesn't test for Lepto though as it's a bacterial infection not a virus.   If your interested in Nosodes Ainsworth's is were I got mine from, they're helpful on the phone, too.

Let me know your results.

The Facebook group was very helpful.
I'm not anti- vaccine at all, I'm very much in favour of vaccines for humans and dogs, but my girl had a reaction after Vanguard for her first annual booster ( Nobivac for puppy jabs was fine ) so Because of that I'm cautious.

Always best to do your own research and decide from there.

When I said about chicken pox in children it was always thought to be a good idea for them to catch it young, thereby developing immunity and before it could interfere with school or cause complications.

I have always been 'good' and boostered annually, especially for rabies when living overseas.   However, apart from rabies, I tended not to booster beyond around age 7.  Going on the basis that if they weren't protected by then, they never would be.

Back in the UK and after the 'new protocol', we vaccinated puppies and boostered against everything 12 months on, and then went to 3-yearly boosters apart from the one for Lepto which, as I understand it, dips over a 12 month period and needs boostering annually.    Whether I go to stopping at around age 7 (which one of mine now is and she's just had the full set) I'm not sure yet - we live in a much more doggie place than we ever have before, and the summer visitors bringing their dogs into town from all over the country (lots) does worry me but again surely mine, who have been regularly boostered, should be able to fight off any infection brought in.  I know my vets here were concerned about a flare up of Lepto a few years back.    At one point, having just 2 now, I enquired about having titres done and was quoted £60. for the pleasure.  And I was told it wasn't totally reliable either.   So I backed off that idea.

We have, so far (there's always a first!!) never had an adverse reaction to vaccination/boostering in our hounds and for me, the risk of them going down with say Parvo especially, far outweighs any vaccination/booster reaction.   If we all stopped vaccinating our dogs, those diseases rarely seen these days, would be more often seen again.   My opinion.

Just noticed the 'clock' on this forum is an hour back - not been changed when the clocks went forward.  My Edit is showing at 6.29 (was) when it's now 7.30....

Research shows that parvo jabs last at least 7 years if not for life.

Immunity and vaccinations don't work on the basis of you are more/better protected, the more you have. You either are or are not protected.

If you live in a doggie area, you are likely to be even better protected because your dog is more likely to be exposed and to be continually have antibodies generated so immunity even more likely to be lifelong.

Your vet is right about titre testing, but only in so far as it can't assess memory cells. So a dog might get a "not protected" result when they actually are still protected. But for someone like you, who is currently vaccinating every 3yrs for everything, I would definitely have titres instead. It would reduce the vaccines you give.

> Immunity and vaccinations don't work on the basis of you are more/better protected, the more you have. You either are or are not protected.

Yes, but with some, the vaccination needs topping up - boostering.   Although yes, a titre check would/should confirm the situation.  Maybe.   And at the price I was quoted, I'd settle for putting a booster in every 3 years to be honest.  Clearly I don't share quite the same horror of vaccination as others might, but then again, I've not had to deal with an adverse reaction!

>Yes, but with some, the vaccination needs topping up - boostering.

No, this isn't how immunity works.  If a dog has any immunity at all, and is given a vaccination for that disease, they don't then have even better/more immunity - sometimes it even drops, because of the effect on their immune system.

vaccicheck is far cheaper than  most vets will quote you usually around £40 . To me the reason to titre would be to give me an idea of immunity so I could avoid vaccination if it wasn't necessary. I could never put the two on a level playing field and use cost to decide which way to go, sorry, I think its a completely different thing
I don't titre or vaccinate as I know I wont vaccinate in any case as more than likely they are fine and memory cells  cells which rabid explained cant be identified anyway. Also two of mine have allergies so it would be contra indicated.
Things like kc and lepto only last a short while anyway so each vaccine isnt topping up its giving immunity to thoss strains. Neither of those diseases will show antibodies on titre anyway

> <br />No, this isn't how immunity works.  If a dog has any immunity at all, and is given a vaccination for that disease, they don't then have even better/more immunity - sometimes it even drops, because of the effect on their immune system.

I would be most interested to read the source(s) for what you are suggesting here, when you have the time.    Not that I think you are going to persuade me that what I choose to do with my hounds, and have for the past 40+  years is wrong?

> I would be most interested to read the source(s)

Just Google Dr Schultz on vaccination and you will get lots.  he is the world leading authority on canine immunology.

And Dr jean Dodds they often mirror each other with their work. I think a lot of people are having their minds changed after many years of doing things one way. The wsava also has changed.their recommendations.on a simail ppint gow many human vaccines require continual annual boosters ? Very few

> on a simail ppint gow many human vaccines require continual annual boosters

This is one thing that has had me switching to boostering 3-yearly only.   I do believe that vets have their rabies shot boostered? annually however?  On balance, I may call it re boostering my now 6 and 7 year old hounds.

I think people might be getting a bit confused over the annual and 3 yearly boostering, I know I was.

Through my own research this week I found the Nobivac recommended vaccination schedule.
Distemper, hepatitis, parvo, parainfluenza and Lepto for the two puppy jabs and first annual booster.
They then go onto a 3 yearly rolling schedule where they only have Lepto and parainfluenza for 2 years followed by all 5 the next year.

some people are going onto these groups disgusted that their vet is trying to financially exploit them, when they don't seem to understand the difference in the schedule. If you want your dog full protected it's not getting all the vaccines every time. Owners need to be asking what vaccines the vet feels it is due and see if it fits the manufacturers schedule, or if the vet is trying to give something it doesn't need.

This isn't a post to argue over what dogs do and don't need, it's to try and explain the difference in each year in the schedule.

Rabies can be given annually or yearly more often annually but as mine have never needed rabies I've not looked into very deeply .I understamd u calling it booster ing it'sindividual persons terminology and irrelevant if that is what is happening from a technical point or not it's

Sorry folks didn't read that post through did I ? Admin I can't edit so can u either edit or remove ive written a load of rubbish although the messagr was there somewhere if u can untangle it .appologies

> Through my own research this week I found the Nobivac recommended vaccination schedule.<br />Distemper, hepatitis, parvo, parainfluenza and Lepto for the two puppy jabs and first annual booster.<br />They then go onto a 3 yearly rolling schedule where they only have Lepto and parainfluenza for 2 years followed by all 5 the next year.

This is the schedule I hang my hat on.   Not that others might not suggest that the companies manufacturing the vaccine will be promoting their products.  I have a great worry that if more people don't vaccinate/booster their animals, the rarely seen diseases may well become more rife again.   There may well be any number of dogs who actually don't need to be boostered of course, but I remain convinced that I'd rather not take the risk, with mine.   Or spend money getting titres checked when boostering costs a fraction of what I've been quoted for titres and I've not had any bad reaction from any of my hounds, in over 40 years.   And it's not necessarily true that humans don't need their vaccination brought utd for all diseases either - Tet.shots should be boostered every 10 years, for eg.  And most people may well need boosters for diseases rampant in other countries, before travelling.

But again, each to their own.

We are now told its not necessary  to have more than a certain amount of tetanus vaccinations in a lifetime .trouble woth this subject is that it is very emotive.  Best to research and then make your own choice. I know for me and mine it's less is more

We are now told its not necessary  to have more than a certain amount of tetanus vaccinations in a lifetime .trouble woth this subject is that it is very emotive.  Best to research and then make your own choice. I know for me and mine it's less is more

No human has all their jabs every 3 years....

Sorry but it is using a cannon ball to crack a nut, at great cost in terms of the damage the cannon ball does!

Humans don't have jabs every 3 years because research shows how long they last.

There are vaccines given to babies that adults don't need because adults can cope with the disease better. It doesn't affect adults as badly as children.

There is a vaccine being given to year 10 children now called meningitis ACWY. Research shows that the C and W strain affects those in their late  teens and early 20's more, and there have been an increase in cases of the C and W strain, with some unfortunate deaths. Yet some parents choose not to vaccinate their children. That is their choice.
Tetanus is not given every 10 years anymore. When you get to year 10 in school you should be offerd your 5th and final dose. You shouldn't ever need another unless you go to casualty with a dog bite or dirty wound, or go to a country where it is advised as a travel jab.
No vaccine is a guarantee that you won't get the disease, hopefully you won't but if you do you will hopefully get a lesser case of the disease.
Different people's bodies take up the vaccine differently and all sorts of thing affect it, such as age and health. I know that the blood lab in my hospital randomly tests blood samples to check the status of people's blood. It is anonymous and the lab only knows the sex and age of the donor. Research is ongoing, this is how the HPV vaccine has now come down to 2 doses instead of 3 if you start before 15 years of age. Research shows that you need 3 if starting after 15 years of age.

I assume dogs bodies use up the immunity quicker as they have a shorter lifespan, and that is why they are vaccinated more often. That is a guess, not a statement.

> Tetanus is not given every 10 years anymore.

So that's why after I was bitten by a strange dog a couple of years ago, I was asked at A & E, where I went for antibiotics, whether my Tet. shot was up to date - HAD IT BEEN GIVEN/BOOSTERED WITHIN THE PREVIOUS 10 YEARS?

The more I hang around this place, the more I am learning that I'm lucky to have survived on this earth as long as I have, given how obviously ignorant I am.   NOT.

Now I'm off to take a time out from here because it's depressing to be told I'm wrong all the time.   Sorry. 

Tetanus ( which is actually diphtheria, tetanus and polio as tetanus isn't available on its own ) is not given every 10 years as standard.
Once you have had the 5 childhood ones it is only given  for the reasons I said before.
I wouldn't bother replying but I want to make sure people know the facts.

Just for interest if I go to hospital.with a bite for example and I havnt had enough tetanus vaccinations previously or more like can't remember it's actually tetanus and polio and diphtheria they are giving me   ?

You get given diphtheria, tetanus and polio in one vaccination. There isn't a single tetanus vaccination.
If you don't know how many you have had, just ask at you GP's and they should be able to tell you. However, if you've had one at casualty it's very unlikely that your GP will have put it on their computer system. You might have to ask them to pull the letter that casualty sent to the GP to check.

MamaBas, it doesn't matter how many years you've been around on earth, it is still possible to have understood something wrongly all that time, and learning new things should still be a capable feat. 

I'm sorry you find it so hard to be wrong, if you were more interested in learning, it might be less painful.

Science is moving on all the time - what we know to be right at one point in time is often disproved or altered further down the line.  Vaccinations are one of the faster-moving areas so what may have been the case a couple of years ago could easily be completely different now.

> I'm sorry you find it so hard to be wrong, if you were more interested in learning, it might be less painful.

Isn't that a touch harsh?    Fact is I'm always learning, and to assume I find it so hard to be wrong is also incorrect.   Fact is I am as entitled to my opinions as the next person and I only put on here what I have learnt FROM EXPERIENCE.   Yes things move on of course and I'd like to think I'm not so blinkered as not to take onboard new thinking.   But if I do query some things said on this board, it's because they don't gel with what I have experienced.   If you prefer to take that as me not being willing to learn - not much I can do about that.   Just because two people may have differing opinions, doesn't necessarily mean either is wrong.   And I didn't say, either, that I'm finding it hard to be told I'm wrong all the time - just DEPRESSING.   There is a difference.

But I do on occasion think I'm bashing my head against a brick wall, which is not something I enjoy doing.   So I may to continue to lurk here (in case there is something for me to learn ) even if I keep my opinions to myself from now on.

> So I may to continue to lurk here (in case there is something for me to learn <img title="razz" class="fsm fsm_razz" alt="" src="/images/epx.png" /><img title="roll" class="fsm fsm_roll" alt="" src="/images/epx.png" />) even if I keep my opinions to myself from now on.

Don't do that we need a variety of opinion/experience for balance, we just have to agree to disagree sometimes on certain matters.  There's rarely only one right way for many things, and every situation.