Well the 2 minute clip showing inside an Irish puppy farm was bad enough so dread to think what's in the rest of the programme.

BBC One 7:30 (16th May 2016)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36302556

I've just put it on, those poor dogs, what an ABSOLUTE DiSGACE!!!!
Why the hell are any puppy farms licensed, not just this one !!!!!

I'm staggered that puppies are still being sold in shops, I thought that had been stopped. Horrid, horrid, horrid people

I watched this and was livid all the way through.

This is essentially battery farming dogs on a massive level.

There was some excellent points made now will anyone listen? It was very emotive so I sure hope so

It was horrible.  Really upsetting.

I'll have to watch it on catch-up later

Sadly I don't think the large scale commercial breeding of dogs will ever stop, not while parts of the general public do not want to wait for a puppy, do not want to be asked questions by a breeder, do not put importance on health testing (as they just want a pet not show dog) and think they are saving the puppy from buying from shops and puppy farms while forgetting they are condemning the parents and future relatives to continue to suffer.

Hi all

After watching the BBC one program last night about the terrible conditions the dogs and puppies were kept in,my main concern was the fact local councils (in Ireland) were passing of these premises for use of "dog breeding" .

How in this day and age do they deem this acceptable??? So in the eyes of the law they are doing nothing wrong because they have a licence.

I guess other people will add there thoughts on the other issues so I will read on to your replies

Have a good day

Its not just Ireland it in the whole of the uk particularly wales which is why imo until the councils and government actually want too get to grips with this nothing will change .Rspca seem to have little ability or desire to challenge things so it continues

I didn't watch, on purpose.    I caught the first half of the other Puppy buying programme and frankly that was enough for me.   Once they got onto buying into mix breeding and showed a man looking for a puppy for his three daughters, I was off.   Wasn't it more than obvious the breeder was only in it for the cash return?   She only has a litter every year ...... for how many years!!!?

All too often these programmes are biased - and Panorama is one of the worst.

<Panorama is one of the worst>

That's as maybe, but I don't see many other programmes trying to flag up the issues. The reporter was the same one that did a similar piece last year, so for her it seems to matter - good on her and I hope she doesn't suffer any backlash because of it. As for Eric what's his name, his licence wasn't renewed but I very much doubt he will stop such a lucrative business. It's a national disgrace.

MamaBas, this isn't just a witch hunt. You should watch to see just how bad the situation is. Eric Hale has been notorious trader for many years, pretending to trade from a terraced cottage, but in fact, having well over 100 breeding bitches. It isn't just happening in Ireland either. DW recently covered the case of Chancepixies, (trading as Little Rascals), in the East Midlands which has it's maximum licenced complement of 200 breeding bitches. They are in the North Kesteven area. This is no life for a bitch, and no start for a puppy. We all need to let our MP's know that this is not an acceptable life for a sentient animal.

i had to turn it over  reduced me to tears. When will people start putting living beings before personal gain, its really disgraceful .

Unfortunately I think never. It has to be up to the councils and government to step in with real intent to stop this. Even then somehow people will twist the rules and somehow continue.

Thing is does the government/councils realy want to stop it as after all the licenced one's bring in money so more licenced breeders the more money.

Here in Carmarthenshire (often called puppy farm capital of Wales) when you first apply for a lience when you get your inspection a vet comes along to inspect as well as the council inspector. After that your yearly inspection the date of which I believe you know when it's going to be will only be done by the council inspector. So it's easy to see how conditions can slide as it will all depend on if the inspector also sees dogs as stock, if they are friendly with the breeder, if the lack dog knolege ect.

Just watched it on catch up.  It was actually really hard to watch.  It was particularly shocking the lengths these people go to to deceive.  When i first began to look for a puppy i read i should see the bitch with the pups, see the paperwork proving health tests were done, and have the KC paperwork so i knew the breeding of the puppy and the breeder.  Well these frauds have got all of that covered haven't they!?  Carting a show bitch from home to home to be seen with whatever poor litter they were flogging, faking paperwork and having an excuse for everything - it was scary!

If one positive comes from this show I hope that that Dawn & Co. are now out of a business.

She made my skin crawl!

hopefully it reached a wide audience and more people will be vigilant ,i think its something a lot of people didn't even know about, particularly the lengths they go to in portraying they are from family homes.

Sadly the Hale man has my breed, sad when you think we are only averaging around 50 - 75 registrations at the KC from health tested stock from good breeders.

Anyone have the catch up link?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07cgscx/panorama-britains-puppy-dealers-exposed

thanks

> I'm staggered that puppies are still being sold in shops, I thought that had been stopped.

A fifth of dogs are sold that way according to the reporter.

The powers that be consider commercial breeding acceptable trade.

Not watched the programme  because I knew it would make me angry and upset. Until we have jail sentences for even first time puppy farmers and bans on shop trading we won'take headroom.
This Hale character sounds as if he should be feather and tarred in public and banned for life from owning a pet of any type.
These programmes can highlight farms etc but they also send a message that the producer wants to portray,

For me hiring people to go as buyers and then have powers seize all dogs and shut down place instantly. We would see a huge impact on the puppy farms byb.

But those with  no interest in dogs, (government) see nothing wrong with commercial breeding al they want to see is regulation, so licensed puppy farms are OK in their book.

How can any sane person believe that giving licenses for hundreds or even 10's of breeding bitches will not impact on welfare????

Even the cleanest most modern commercial unit (like those breeding dogs for research) can not provide what dogs need, especially dogs destined to be part of a human family.

Food and clean living conditions are not enough.

STAFFING LEVELS

Anyone who has had a litter of pups from 3 - 8 weeks knows they are walking poop machines, as fast as food and water goes in one end so it seems you are cleaning up the output from the other end.

As a full time occupation I don't think any one person could properly care for and interact with more than two litters each (so that's 4 litters per 8 hour day for each of two staff, bearing in mind you'd have to have staff change over so two members of staff for every 4 litters).

Then you would need say two members of staff for every 10 adult  dogs to clean feed and walk them.

Then you'd need a full time admin person (it's just taken me most of two days to print and collate all the paperwork for my puppies, register chips etc).

You'd need a maintenance person to attend to repairs of kennels etc.

I know there are minimum staffing levels in Boarding kennels, so at least twice the staffing levels should apply fro Breeding premises as the dog actually live out their lives there so more staff needed for care of breeding stock and also intensive levels needed for care of puppies.

PUPPIES SHOUDL ONLY BE SOLD DIRECT BY THE BREEDER when under 12 weeks of age (so no dealers could have pups at the cute most sellable age).

"Sadly the Hale man has my breed, sad when you think we are only averaging around 50 - 75 registrations at the KC from health tested stock from good breeders"

Yes, when they mentioned Norwegian Elkhounds I was horrified but sadly not shocked. I remember the dogs4us website vividly, it's enough to make my blood pressure shoot up!

It is very sad.

I personally feel all the dogs and breeds deserve so much better than this.

How on earth could these places possibly get caring kennel staff to work for them? The animals may be fed, watered and cleaned to a standard which the local authority finds adequate, but there is massive emotional deprivation. Surely any inspector can see that these dogs have no chance of ever being able to exhibit the normal behaviour which is also a requirement of the licence.
I note that the Hale family now have a glossy website about their interest in pedigee cats, - lots of photos, a family concern, very persuasive!

Just re-read my last post and thought I might be better clarifying.
A search of one of EH's affixes, throws up a website for a cat breeder in the same area. No family name is apparent. Let's keep things accurate!

Out of interest would you be able to PM a link?

I have a vested interest in the pedigree cat world as well so would like to have a mooch if possible?

Have PM'd a reply.
Jemima Harrison has a useful blog about this programme.

Very sad to watch. Government needs to stop this. I wouldn't be surprised though if new legislation comes in which only affects/targets all 'The Hobby Breeders' (who love their dogs and do all the health tests etc etc). The fact that someone can be given a breeding 'Licence' to breed 120 breeding bitches is beyond belief.

Well said, Compassion.

> I wouldn't be surprised though if new legislation comes in which only affects/targets all 'The Hobby Breeders' (who love their dogs and do all the health tests etc etc).

Nail on head, they (and the RSPCA) want to reduce the number of litters that rigger a license, (as low as two litters in any 12 months, not a year, some even want license for one litter a year).  Think of all those license fees.

They are looking at the wrong end of the picture, when they happily dish out licenses to someone like the one in Wales )Carmarthen I believe) for 150 bitches with one full time and one part time staff for them plus 50 sheep and no-one living on premises..

Hello Everyone,
I've been benefiting from your posts for a good while now but this post made me register and ask you all to petition your MP's to do something about the dire state of animal welfare in NI, a part of the UK but with appalling welfare standards and enforcement, but not for the want of the people from the USPCA.
This link is not for the faint hearted.
http://uspca.co.uk/reflections-on-the-cruel-trade-of-puppy-farming-by-a-uspca-welfare-officer/

How can we let this continue? One of the breeders had 300 breeding bitches on his premises, which gives you some idea of the scale and level of subsequent neglect.
Has anyone out there got any advice on how to direct such a campaign to end this? And it's not just dogs, horses and farm animals are not adequately protected either, anyone with a strong stomach can google a search for animal cruelty prosecutions in NI. If you do all I can say is 'those poor cows'.
Sorry everyone, I was hoping my first post might be a jollier one.

I quite agree, and we have asked our last two MP's for assurances. I really despair because this issue hits the headlines every year or so, we all say how disgusting it is, some search out and sign the petitions - then it all fades from view until the next time. I would really love to see this trade swept away before I have to pop my clogs. Also, to see dogs, cats and monkeys out of laboratories!