Hi I am breeding my lady for the first time so I'm quite new to this so please be nice

I have read and watched everything I can on breeding, whelping, throughout the pregnancy and labor but I just need some more advice from people who are more experienced than myself and my vet.

So basically my lady is on day 63 from her first mate and day 61 from her second. Her temp has dropped this morning to 35.7 back up to 36.9. She has ate her breakfast and lunch snack today but was sick early this morning before she had food. She is showing nesting behavior but constantly sleeping in her whelping box.

I was just wondering if there's any other "signs" that labor is near?

Thank you x

She should start to shiver and pant soon.  But not all of them do...  Big breed or small breed?

She's a small breed. Am I not able to say her actual breed? I'm completely new to this forum but I have read excessively on different posts and haven't seen anyone disclose there breed lol.

She's just lying in her whelping box and sleeping.. She's been sleeping a lot recently

P.s thanks for the reply x

Nope.  You're not supposed to reveal your breed.  Could be viewed as advertising...

Right now you must just wait.  It may not seem to you like anything is happening.  Go through the night, keep her with you in the same room, and see what she does.  I bet you will see her panting in the morning, maybe she will scratch around in her bed during the night (maybe she won't!).  She may shiver.  But keep her near you all night so that you wake up at the slightest thing.

I do hope you have notified your vet and have him or her on call.  If this is your very first delivery, then it would be well to have someone with you who has some experience.  I hope you know that you must tear away the sac immediately (once the puppy has fully emerged) and rub the puppy down with a cloth, be sure it is breathing, be sure the placenta has come out, tear the cord carefully with your fingers but not too close to the puppy's tummy and be sure to watch that there is no excessive bleeding from the cord.  Then you can turn the puppy over to Mum.  (nutshell description of a birth...)

You can't reveal the breed but I think you can say something like 'a long/short haired toy breed', for example... just so people have some idea...

Ok won't reveal her breed then. Thanks for that information

I've been up and down through every night this week. Her whelping box is less than 1ft from my side of the bed so she is close to me at all times. I'm so tired and she just sleep all the time lol

Yeah my vet is aware of her. She was in for a scan on day 46 and been down once a week to weigh her and check in with the vet. My vet isn't very experienced with breeding but I'm in constant contact with the owner of the stud who is a very experienced breeder.

As for when it comes to the actual labour I'm all set and ready to go. All towels are piled up. Cloths ect. Spare heating pads, blankets. You name it ive got it lol. I bought a ready made whelping kit which will help also. I've watched almost every dog birthing video going on YouTube lol.

I just read some horror stories and slightly freaked me out. So just wanted some extra information from people with different experiences

X

(Would have quoted if I knew how to on a phone!) I would absolutely NOT tear the sack, rub the pup and cut the cord if the bitch is coping fine. That's simply interfering too much. If the bitch takes care of everything as she should, there is no need to intervene. You have to be there and be prepared to help, without taking over for no reason.

Yeah I know to wait at least til the pup is fully out and to see what mum is going to do.. If she is in shock and doesn't know  what to do then I'll tear the sac but I'm praying she takes over from there for the rest. I just want to be there with her I don't want to get involved too much but obviously will if I have to.

X

I would absolutely NOT tear the sack, rub the pup and cut the cord if the bitch is coping fine. That's simply interfering too much. If the bitch takes care of everything as she should, there is no need to intervene. You have to be there and be prepared to help, without taking over for no reason.

Yes, that is very true of course.  But last night when I wrote that to a person who seemed VERY insecure (as we all are when it our first birth), I was not sure how prepared or informed AURORA might or might not be.  (I see now that she has done a lot of homework!)  I didn't want her to think that she should just assume that Mum will do everything she is expected to do, and therefore perhaps leave a newborn lying there in the sac.  You never know what people may not know!  There is also the issue of fluid in the respiratory channels or "blue" babies (who need rubbing!), or other surprises and things which need special attention.  There are just so many variations on the theme "birthing", that one cannot make any assumptions, really.  Which a novice might be inclined to do!  As in:  "But it said in the book that..."  If you see what I mean.

That said:  I do tear the sack!  Every time!  Then I turn the pup over to Mum if all else is fine.  She can enjoy the placentas and all the rest.  And I don't "cut" the cord, I tear it (very carefully) and sometimes put a clamp on it for a little while until I am sure there is no bleeding.  I'm not saying I know better, just saying what I myself do.

Anyhow, I hope AURORA is going to let us know how it is going!  AURORA, are you there?  I wish you a wonderful birth, lovely puppies and commend you on your thorough preparation!

She was in for a scan on day 46

Just out of sheer curiosity:  Why would a vet do a scan on day 46?

Morning Nimue

The thing I'm most worried about is cutting the cord. I've read that 1 inch from the puppies tummy and have watched some videos there is a very minimum amount of videos on YouTube that show it and all done very fast and don't talk you through lol.

Is it right that it should be done 1 inch from puppies tummy? I do have blunt scissors and cord pegs also. I have read that I need to put iodine on the bottom where cut.. What else could I use as that's something I've not been able to pick up?

No signs yet today of labour making me think she took on her second mate.

My husband is a worrier and we were in the pet store and because we were weighing her we got talking with the vet who said and I quote "she doesn't look very pregnant" and also going on to talk about phantom pregnancies ect ect.. Immediately putting doubt in my husband's mind.. She then said "oh I'm free the now I could do a quick scan" my husband really pleaded me to get one so we did.. And she was right it was a very quick scan. We were only in the room about 5 minutes and most of that time was spent setting the ultrasound up and shaving a bit of my lady's tummy. I knew myself she was pregnant..i know my lady inside out lol. We had only just weighed her and she had put on a full 2.3 kilograms.

thr bitch will cut cord her self so.do.not worry
but if you want sterilise small pair of nail siccores you can get spray on iodione or purpal stray
i was really worried about cord to but cord snaps when foal hits ground
i have only had to cut foal cord once it was bad foaling and had to pull colt out with ropes
its like cutting throw very fatty joint
hope mum is doing well

I'll see about getting a spray. I hope she does it all on her own to be honest but the cord was the the thing I wasn't feeling 100% confident in.

Yeah she is good just sleeping allllllll the time lol. Her temp is back up today at 37.3. I just want them to coke out now. I can still hear heartbeats and feeling and seeing movement lol.

any iodane would do from chemist or tack shop or farming shop even purple spray onthor one thats good is bactkill from osmonds

when one of my mares was due her first and my first i watchef her 24/7 checkef her every hour at night the hour i did not check her she had filly.foal next mare to foal i timed it right

In The Book of the Bitch the authors stress that NOTHING should be put on the umbilical cords.

With all due respect (I really mean that!), I would question whether all the aspects of birthing a foal pertain to all the aspects of birthing the tiny puppies of a small dog breed.  My females do not ALWAYS cut the cords themselves, and if they do, they sometimes get it far too short.  Most authorities recommend tearing the cord (such as with your fingernails, carefully), not cutting it with the scissors, as a straight cut is more likely to bleed.  The mother dog does, after all, tear - and not cut - the cord.  You have to also be observant afterwards (for about the first day or two) that the mother doesn't keep on fussing with the cords all the time.  They seem to have a fascination for them!

Right ok so nothing on the umbilical cords and only take action if mum doesn't.

With her temp rising to 37.3 do you think in your experience that she ist ready yet? From her second mate she is day 63 tomorrow. She is just sleeping 24/7 lol

ahh ok i was given wrong advice i had bought bitch only had her 4weeks she poped one pup out complet suprise one of ladies from.stables breds dogs she told me to put idione on pup umbilile cord stump just like i do with foal
really sorry for givin wrong advice

With her temp rising to 37.3 do you think in your experience that she ist ready yet? From her second mate she is day 63 tomorrow. She is just sleeping 24/7 lol

First of all, no female of mine ever had her temperature fall below 36'7.  What I HAVE experienced, however, is that the temp will go up and down.  And once, when I thought for sure that we had reached the lowest of the low points, it turned out I was wrong, because the next day it went down even further and - importantly - STAYED THERE.  Then the first-stage labor was unmistakable.

First stage labor should, in my experience, be starting now.  Perhaps it has already begun without your being able to detect it.  If you are in any doubt, then you will have to have the heart frequencies of the puppies checked by a vet who knows what he/she is doing.  You say your vet does not know much about birthing.  Don't you have an animal hospital somewhere in your area?  They have to count the beats for at least one full minute (ultrasound) for each individual puppy. (Do you know how many puppies are expected?)  Don't quote me on it, but I believe the ideal frequency for an unborn puppy is 180 (beats per minute).  From 140 downwards the puppy is in danger.  If that should be the case, then a C-section might be in order.

Birthing is never without its trials, dangers and of course, joys and miracles!  I do hope to hear that the signs of first-stage labor have become visible!  With those temperature see-saws, something is definitely happening.  I wish I knew your breed.  It would be so helpful.

On the scan at day 46 the vet seen two skulls saying the puppies were too big to count or see anymore. I'm quite new to this area and I'm sure the closest hospital is well over an hour away and with my husband being away I can't get there (I don't drive)

Am I maybe able to say a film her breed was in? She's a miniature breed of the dog in the film lol

I didn't want her to think that she should just assume that Mum will do everything she is expected to do, and therefore perhaps leave a newborn lying there in the sac.  You never know what people may not know!

Then it would be easy to have said "You do know you MIGHT have to" etc, wouldn't it. There's a lot of info out on the net stating you should do everything for the bitch, especially from Americans, but a bitch that does not know the basics is not one that really should be bred from again (unless she was too young when she had her first litter) -similar to if everyone used AI we would end up with dogs no longer capable of natural matings. Watch, see, intervene only when necessary.

I bred Persian and Exotic cats for 25 years. There it was a case of do EVERYTHING for the mother. We don't want this situation in too many dog breeds (I assume thee already are some like it).

I plan on holding the cord whilst mum chews it, just to stop her from chewing it too short....

Most bitches are so fast the jobs done and you don't know it. Yes they often take them too close but as of yet I have never had one I couldn't stop bleeding. I keep some nice tight locking forceps to clip on if needed till the cord  dries a little. I don't put anything one them like iodine. It worries me more that she is one day 63 and is a small breed, most go earlier than this. Also if you need to get her to the vet and you have no transport whatever will you do ? You HAVE to make arrangements to have a way of getting there. If this is your first litter and you have no mentor or help I feel for you. Stay calm and do the best you can but be very wary of inertia at this stage.  Warmth is vitally important for newborns and so make sure your whelping area is warm. Hot water bottles (as a last resort)or a heat pad/lamp could well be needed. Rabid..make sure you count your fingers afterwards !!
Aileen

I'm sorry but that made me laugh!

There's absolutely no way with any of the litters I've bred could I do that!!

.......hold the cord.....

Yeah my normal vet is near by just not an animal hospital.

She's been in and out in the sun today (staying in the shade) drinking plenty and eating as normal. Her temp has staying at 37.3 all day so far.. She is panting and has had some discharge but I'm not sure if the panting is the heat or labor... This is killing me the fear of the unknown lol

I think that my inner voices would be telling me now - if I had been waiting as long as you have for some kind of clear sign that first-stage labor has begun - to get in touch with my vet.

Can you ring around and find a different vet who has knowledge of breeding particularly a small breed like yours. I would also have a taxi number on standby in case of emergency at least to get to a vet.

I'm not too worried because her "due day" 63 days is tomorrow. She only got her milk in her mammary glands yesterday.

Her temp has dropped to a promising 36.6. So I'll hold off contacting the vet just yet xx

This temperature drop is probably a good sign.  Let us know how it proceeds!  I really wish I knew what breed it is.  Your hint about the film didn't tell me anything.  Maybe you can think up another hint? 

Is it possible they are in only 3 colours and originated in one of the Scottish isles?

Her breed starred in the movie LOOK WHOS TALKING NOW. She is a miniature of that breed.. Same color and SAME NAME

She is currently lying in her whelping box stretched out on her side (normally curled in a ball) x

Think Standard, Toy & Miniature, White, Black, Apricot, Choc  for colours

I have always had bitches deal with the cord themselves so fast that I've realised that they knew automatically what was needed.

With toy breeds, as Merlot pointed out, the fear of inertia is there because it happens so frequently in the smaller breeds.  And, quite frankly, if I had been your mentor I would be slapping you round the head asking why you weren't at the vets.  Would you recognise inertia?  If not you should not be whelping a bitch without an experienced breeder at your side.  In an emergency you need to be with a vet in 10 minutes.

With my bitches I wouldn't leave them this long.

Just to say that you shouldn't judge her by the fact that her milk is in.  It is not unusual for a bitch to have milk come in after whelping.

As I posted this afternoon:

I think that my inner voices would be telling me now - if I had been waiting as long as you have for some kind of clear sign that first-stage labor has begun - to get in touch with my vet.

Frankly, I definitely WOULD be afraid of inertia by now.  I have experienced it many times over my 25 years of breeding. If I were you, I would go now to the vet and have the heart frequencies of the puppies checked and have the vet check to see if she is fully open and what is happening.

In answer to JeanSW:

Absolutely.  Also about the milk.  It comes in at different times with different females.  Doesn't tell us anything about impending birth.  AURORA:  I AM getting worried about your bitch! 

Firstly can I just say my lady isn't past her expectant due date yet. And secondly she isn't in active labor. She isn't showing any cause for concern. The only sign is her temp has slightly dropped.

And yes I do know the signs of uterine inetra. That's why I haven't rushed to the vets.

And the experienced owner of the stud has been round all day and has been popping in and out for the past few weeks.

My vet is aware of my dogs pregnancy. I am taking her to the vet first thing tomorrow morning just to see what's going on.

I said about her milk being in as I seen this as a positive sign.

Aurora
I am worried because my toy breed whelps on day 56, perfectly viable whelps.  I have never had a toy breed go full term.

I have never bred a litter but have huge respect for the longterm members of this forum who have a vast amount of experience with breeding.

Having been a member of here for a good number of years I know the advice they give and the concerns they raise are something I wouldn't ignore if I was in your situation Aurora. They aren't trying to scare you but are genuinely concerned for the welfare of your bitch and her unborn puppies and have vast amounts of experience to offer to those who may not have the experience they have and want to ensure that everything possible is done for a safe and trouble free birthing.

People such as Jean SW have huge amounts of experience with toy breeds and are genuinely concerned for your bitch's safety and have been through the trauma of emergency c-sections and all that they entail.

I get the impression this is NOT a toybreed but medium sized. In which case I'd be less concerned. Having said that, I find it rare for any bitch to go to 63 days. My last large breed litter was whelped day 57.

She isn't a toy breed.

I appreciate all all the advice on here. And have took everything on board which is why I'm taking my lady to the vets first thing tomorrow morning.

My stud's owner is a professional breeder and has many years experience. Her latest littler (small breed) her bitch went on to day 65 and had a normal labor all 8 pups were fine and healthy same with the mother. That's why I have been quite laid back because she's laid back lol.

But still taking my lady to the vet tomorrow x

I breed a "small" breed, but not a "toy" breed, unless breeds of the size of, say, the Shih Tzu, Bichon Frisé, King Charles Spaniel etc. come under "toys" in the UK.  In my breed, adult dogs are generally between 4 and 6 kg.  Anyhow, I just want to say that my females, as well as those of my close friend, who is a very experienced breeder of miniature poodles and Loewchen (so about the same size as mine), always whelp between 59 and 64 days after the first mating, never before that.  Once, when a female of mine was bred on day 6 of her season, it went 67 days until the whelping.

What has been bothering me (a lot!) about your situation is the old rule you can read in any book on breeding:  "After the drop in temperature, the puppies should arrive within maximum 24 hours."  These things are of course not written in stone, but there is reason behind them all the same.

How often have I suffered through the limbo of not knowing whether to go to the vet because "nothing is happening", both with my own females and with those of my close friend (the little poodles and the Loewchen).  And how totally different the degree of "laid-backness" is, depending on whether it is "your" dog or "their" dog.

I'm rather concerned that although you have a professional breeder by your side, apparently, constantly and at your beck and call...you still need to find advice from uncle tom cobbly and all...people who are not 'professional' breeders, whatever that is? Surely that is someone you can pick up the phone to and ask?

So, Aurora, what happened at the vet's this morning?  I'm sure I'm not the only one who is eager to hear what he/she said! 

I breed a "small" breed, but not a "toy" breed, unless breeds of the size of, say, the Shih Tzu, Bichon Frisé, King Charles Spaniel etc. come under "toys" in the UK.

Just for info, Shih Tzu is a Utility breed, Bichon and King Charles (and Cavalier King Charles) are toys in the UK. The largest toybreed is the Cavalier.

What's the difference between a King Charles and a Cavalier King Charles? I'm curious.

Size and shape of head are the biggest differences. They are related breeds but not the same. :-)

My little lady didn't need a visit to the vet as she was in first stages of labour.

She has given birth to two beautiful babies

So there we have it a small breed has went to her full term on her first litter and her temp stayed at 36.6

One very happy mummy

thats fab news hope mum.and babies are well