Someone recently said that if you keep males yourself for breeding purposes, then you MUST accept the fact that they WILL pee all over your house.  I have two males, and I can vouch for the fact that this is very true!  Unless, of course, someone has found a miraculous solution to this problem.

What I am wondering, though, is whether one of these males - should he be placed in a different home and be the only dog - would continue to leave his mark everywhere all the same, or would this instinctive behavior diminish or possible disappear entirely?  I am considering placing my older male, who is not really a good mating prospect anymore, especially as he has had problems in the past with the quality and quantity of his sperm, in a different home.  This only if I were to find a life for him which is BETTER than his life with me.  He will be 8 years old at the end of July.  I have not started to look or let people know about this, I am still in the thinking stage.

I would not want to give him to a new home, however, and then have it all go wrong because he continued to mark everything in the house!  Does anyone have experience with this?

Why not castrate him, things should improve and then you can re-home or keep.

I strongly disagree that the answer to  your problem is to castrate.

Could you give the reasons why you say this?  I'd really like to know.

Because, although vets tell you to castrate to avoid testicle cancer, the truth still remains that removing testosterone leaves you with a much higher risk of death to other diseases.

Testosterone is over rated, male eunuchs both human and canine live longer.

Surely this is more of a training issue. We have 3 bitches and 3 males (2 entire) and only had 1 issue with the young boy at 10 months old. Caught him at it, he got told off and now 3years old never tried since. Vigilance and de-odourising products are necessary. Shame to rehome just because of this but then I'm of the school of thought that no matter what happens when we buy or keep a puppy it's a forever home.

Really ? Castrated dogs are more likely to develop prostate cancer than entire dogs, in some breeds there is a noted increase in bone cancer in males.

Why will castration stop a dog marking indoors ?

Shame to rehome just because of this but then I'm of the school of thought that no matter what happens when we buy or keep a puppy it's a forever home.

IFFF I should rehome, it would certainly not be because of the fact that my two males mark in the house!  I have in the past - on occasion - rehomed some of my breeding dogs (females) with people I have known previously (former puppy-buyers, for instance) because the dogs' lives with the new people are so much more rewarding and varied than their lives with me, considering my limited ability to be as mobile as I would like to be, tied down, as I am, with many dogs and occasional litters (such as right now).  The males seem to use their marking as a kind of "comment" on any- and everything, especially if it is new or in a new place.  Not to mention when a female is in heat!  I believe that they are not aware that they do this, and no amount of scolding does any good at all.  I simply have to forgive them for it, but new people might be horrified, and this concerns me.  So I'd like to know if this behavior might simply go away, once the stimulus of living as a stud dog in a pack were removed.

This is a learnt behaviour and will not change. My boy has never marked in the house and he is a seasoned stud dog. His brother however, is entire but never been put to stud. He will pee all over my house and my girls but won't do it in his house - even if his brother is there. My boy won't mark in my sister's house either. Castrating will not resolve the issue. It may lessen but won't go away.

The brother will lift his leg even if we are standing next to him and when he is tied to one of us to stop him wandering off and peeing when no one is watching. Sadly he is confined to the sister's bedroom whenever they visit because he and my boy now argue and pertain to start a fight when in the presence of others - human or canine and need to be kept separate.

> Testosterone is over rated,

Say's who?
male eunuchs both human and canine live longer.
Isn't quality preferable than length of life, wonder what the castrati would have had so say had there been an option.
Surely if your dogs have been marking for some time it's become a learnt behaviour which castration is very unlikely to solve.

> I'm of the school of thought that no matter what happens when we buy or keep a puppy it's a forever home.

I 100% agree.

Nimue

A link for you.  May take a while to get through, but it is certainly an important read for dog people.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

> male eunuchs both human and canine live longer.

Nobody is stopping you from having the operation. 

A link for you.  May take a while to get through, but it is certainly an important read for dog people.


Thanks very much.  There have been many, many discussions about castration here in Switzerland, with a huge study done by the gynecological department of the University Veterinary Hospital in Zurich, but nowhere as comprehensive as the study you just forwarded to me.  I will save it for future reference.

I would like to stress, however, that my original question did not involve castration.  I am not planning to castrate Hoagy, especially as I am concerned about changing the wonderful relationship between the two males, not to mention the possible negative consequences of such a procedure.  I am also loathe to consider any kind of implant.  Castration is really not an option.  I just wanted to know if people here thought the behavior (marking everywhere) would change if Hoagy went to live in a new situation. 

As far as rehoming dogs per se is concerned:  Basically I too am of the opinion that this is to be avoided at - nearly - all cost.  However, I have had some wonderful successes (and no disasters).  I have two females right now who are enjoying their later years with a mature couple I have known for 20 years (sold them two puppies over the years), plenty of money, huge house and garden, yacht on the lake, who devote every single day to giving their four dogs (all the same breed) a wonderful, interesting, varied, fun and healthy life.  I could not begin to offer my doggies such benefits to this degree.  Both of my females went there for a couple of extended visits first, and they were so totally happy that there was no denying the fact that this was what to do for them.  I believe I am not the only breeder here who simply must consider reducing the number of dogs at times.  But I will only do that if the dog is going to a better life than he/she would have had if he/she had remained with me and is going to people I know personally.

We've had more than one male, often both having been used at stud, and forgive me, but it is possible for them not to be marking all over the place.   Perhaps I was lucky with mine, but none of them would dare lift their legs anywhere other than outside.    And then they marked over where the bitches went, not over what each other did.    And for me, castration won't help with this much as with some, it might hep if the testosterone level is lower?    Castration usually only means no puppies.   Training/correction/avoidance should take care of the rest.

ps   I guess you could considering trying chemical castration for the more submissive dog - not so 'permanent' as castration. 

"male eunuchs both human and canine live longer. "   Says who!!    I rarely did castration with our males but 100% they lived beyond the norm for the breed.

> <br />I would like to stress, however, that my original question did not involve castration

Believe me, I totally realise that, and don't doubt that you are a person who cares.  It's just that, after your question I felt that the article would truly be of interest.  I certainly didn't wish to imply any criticism.

Of course you did not mean any criticism!  I didn't take it that way either.

I was grateful for the highly-informative article not only for me personally, but also for the questions about castration which puppy-buyers ALWAYS ask us.  So many thanks.

This forum is in any case a real treasure.  Everyone is so careful and polite and interested and concerned and helpful!  Just great!

Training/correction/avoidance should take care of the rest.

You know, the thing is:  I almost never catch them in the act!  I "find" it.  I discover it, come upon it.  After the deed is done.   ...sigh...  It seems to me that they "comment" on things this way.  I don't think it is really conscious, it seems to be something that more or less "happens to them".  "Oh, you have new sofa pillows!"  (pee...)  "Oh, your jacket is lying on the floor!"  (pee...)  "Oh, I didn't do this corner of the desk yet."  (pee..)  "You left the door to the cellar open!"  (pee...)  "What's that new toy?"  (pee...) 

So I just live with it and constantly clean.  The main floor of my house is actually just one big room with the kitchen around the corner in part of it, so it is not that they have many different rooms at their disposal.  My question was really about whether the one male would cease this behavior in someone else's home, away from the the other male and all the females.  I have five females and two males.  Of those, five are still involved in breeding.

> I almost never catch them in the act!  I "find" it.

That's where avoidance kicks in - if you know your males can't be trusted re peeing indoors, you'll probably just have to confine them when you are not there to supervise.   Sad, but if it avoids you 'finding' it', so be it.    Consequences for actions!   I have to say when changing the beds ONCE, and having pulled the duvet off the bed and onto the floor, I was horrified to find my current male, who must have got to that end of the bungalow, had peed on it.   Never again - when it's bedding change day, I make darned sure the door to that end isn't left open!!   

This is scent marking and the majority of my boys do it, entire or castrated the entire boys often pee on the castro's  much to their disgust and even the ones that haven't yet been used at stud will mark. I think if you rehome your boy to a dog free home he'll stop as there'll be no reason to leave his mark.

I think that a lot of this behaviour is also breed specific. Friends who own toy breeds have a hard job house training their puppies, even when they are only dogs. I have 3 entire boys in my home and the only time they mark in the house is when there is a bitch in season. The rest of the time they have no accidents but they do a lot of scent marking outdoors.

I have had 2 entire males.  They did not pee all over the house.  The eldest one had a particular spot that I would "happen upon" but only once ever caught him in the act.  Even then, he only did it every few months, certainly not every day/week.  The youngest did not attempt to cover it.  I cleaned the area as much as I could.
After we had that room decorated & flooring replaced, he has not done it since.

> You know, the thing is:  I almost never catch them in the act!  I "find" it.  I discover it, come upon it.  After the deed is done.   ...sigh...  It seems to me that they "comment" on things this way.  I don't think it is really conscious, it seems to be something that more or less "happens to them".  "Oh, you have new sofa pillows!"  (pee...)  "Oh, your jacket is lying on the floor!"  (pee...)  "Oh, I didn't do this corner of the desk yet."  (pee..)  "You left the door to the cellar open!"  (pee...)  "What's that new toy?"  (pee...)

I completely feel you pain. We've got a boy just like this, it drives me to distraction.

I've never had any issues and when I lived with my dad we had 3 entire males living in the home and never once did we have any scent marking. My sisters entire male will scent mark in any home he goes into and esp on plastic carrier bags.

What complicated animals dogs are!  I have a stud dog who has never marked indoors at home but will in my friends houses if not 100% supervised and we have 2 castrated visiting family  dogs who will pee in my house although my boy does not mark over their pee, it's somewhat of a mystery.