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Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Interesting??
- By rabid [gb] Date 02.03.16 08:36 UTC
http://www.nature.com/articles/srep22188

"
"Among domestic dog breeders it is common practice to transfer a domestic dog bitch out of her home environment for mating, bringing her back after the mating. If the home environment contains a male, who is not the father of the foetuses, there is a potential risk of future infanticide. We collected 621 records on mating of 249 healthy bitches of 11 breed-types. The highest proportion of successful pregnancies following mating occurred in bitches mated within their home pack and remaining there. Bitches mated elsewhere and then returned to a home containing at least one male had substantially lower incidence of maintained pregnancy in comparison with bitches mated by a home male. After returning home, housing affected strongly the frequency of pregnancy success. Bitches mated elsewhere but released into a home pack containing a home male were four times more likely to maintain pregnancy than bitches which were housed individually after returning home. Suppression of pregnancy in situations where a bitch is unable to confuse a home male about parentage may be seen as an adaptation to avoid any seemingly unavoidable future loss of her progeny to infanticide after birth and thus to save energy.

What do you think?!
- By Brainless [gb] Date 02.03.16 09:39 UTC
I'd say in this day and age, pretty irrelevant.  for a start our dogs don't lvie in packs as such, and kennel dogs even less so.

I don't know of any bitches housed individually away from their packmates, whether the pack contains males or not.

I also know in my own breed that males are perfectly reliable around puppies of an age that bitches are happy for others to be around (from 2 - 3 weeks).

Anecdotally I know of bitches who are happy to have their female besty's around even sooner but are more careful of males.

I used to put my litters in with the rest of the pack at two weeks, but a few years ago one of my girls made everyone's life miserable by being very guardy until they were three weeks, so now keep litter in the sitting room (within sight and sound of others but separate) until they are three weeks.
- By Brainless [gb] Date 02.03.16 09:44 UTC

> The highest proportion of successful pregnancies following mating occurred in bitches mated within their home pack and remaining there.


This is more likely due to the fact that there will be more mating opportunities so that peak fertility is achieved and also the pair will be familiar and relaxed.

Exactly the reason that I and most people in my breed favour a bitch staying with the stud from before she is ready until after they loose interest in each other, it allows a far more natural mating behaviour.

Our males are never likely to be in huge demand necessitating rationing their use, they will be lucky if they sire half a dozen litters in a lifetime.

Even when registrations were higher and imported dogs likely to be sought out, I know of no dog sire 20 litters through a long stud career, and in the last 15 years a dog siring half that would be over used.
- By Carrington Date 02.03.16 09:47 UTC Upvotes 1
There are obviously tens of thousands of litters born which will have differing outcomes, it is a very small survey done here, but I would say that as a whole that piece is probably indicative of dog behaviour, and quite accurate and tbh most of us who breed are aware of our dogs natural instincts.

But, I know we can influence instinctual behaviour in our domestic dogs, that is the difference......... we can keep our bitches stress free, keep them away from a strong alpha presence dog or bitch (if the bitch is lower ranking) which may influence an absorption or if our bitches are used to and enjoy being in a pack presence and feeling their protection (my girl did via family dogs) then that is the best thing and will help a bitch in whelp............we are also aware that other bitches and males may be a danger to a whelped litter........lone bitches will need extra TLC prior and post whelping.

It is up to us to know our dogs and make sure we give them what they need as instinct and signals are happening all the time and yes, they do make a difference to a successful litter.

Unfortunately, sometimes we can't help things happening and I guess that is why joe blogs down the road can mate his two pets and have litter after litter as it is a more natural environment, when carefully planned matings, involving travel can be hit or miss, but alas that is how we control the welfare of a healthy lineage and on the whole they are successful.

It is why it is so important to keep a bitch stress free and understand the pack dynamics if in one...........if not she needs to be treated as a princess at the vital points whilst in whelp.
- By Tommee Date 02.03.16 10:53 UTC Upvotes 1
Total load of rubbish, dogs don't live in packs, they live in manmade groups, males rarely are given access to new borns without human supervision.

It is far more likely that bitches kill their puppies, which is why good breeders keep their newly whelped bitches under constant supervision for the first couple of weeks, this is when puppies are most vulnerable. Bitches that intentionally kill their puppies (as opposed to accidently)are few & far between
- By MamaBas [gb] Date 02.03.16 13:53 UTC Edited 02.03.16 13:55 UTC
I'm not totally sure what this OP is about.  As it can be very difficult to get my main breed to mate without lots of assistance, and I had a friend who could mate chairs to tables, we'd take our stud dogs to her place, where we'd meet up with the bitch to be mated.   This always worked and my more popular boy only missed once despite a successful mating and she came back for a repeat, when she opted to use my other dog.  Same procedure, they met at my friend's house, successful mating - no puppies.    The bitch went elsewhere on her next season - no puppies.   We paid my friend a percentage of the stud fee, for her involvement.    If the breeding from from my male to one of my bitches, generally speaking I managed to get them mated without using my friend.   It was just more convenient for her to do outside stud work, for me, so the bitch owners (and their bitches!) went home happy!!

As for packs, I always looked on my lot as a mini-pack even if they weren't hunting formally.   Obviously pregnant and post whelped bitches were right away from the rest of the pack in another part of the house.
- By JeanSW Date 02.03.16 16:28 UTC

> Anecdotally I know of bitches who are happy to have their female besty's around even sooner but are more careful of males


The first time I saw this was a joy to see.  My bitch had gone out for a wee and her 2 year old daughter came into the living room where my whelping set up suits the girls.  I was amazed to see Bonnie happily get into the nest with Gemma, and spent the whole time with her mum.  She didn't disturb the tiny whelps, she was just content to lie with mum.  I'm smiling now at the thought, it was lovely.
- By klb [gb] Date 02.03.16 19:52 UTC
Not convince at all by this piece of work. I have males and females and always used outside males ... In a my girls would have been mortified to have been mated by the subordinates they live with.  Know plenty of breeders who have dogs and bitches and don't have issues using outside males
Topic Dog Boards / Breeding / Interesting??

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