Just after some advice (first time breeding a toy breed) my bitch is 35 days in whelp and she is massive after reading forums on here people state that there dogs dont look pregnant until about 7 weeks or so but mine has looked pregnant from about 3 weeks. I had her scanned at day 25 and it showed 4 pups. Im just concerned at the rate she is growing considering she still has a good few weeks to go. Before she was in whelp she was being walked 2 hours aday over 2 walks 7 days a week she was in tip top condition and was very lean not over wight One bit. From 9 days from her first tie her teets started to swell and all her symptoms seemed to have happend fast compared to what i read on here.

It may be that the scan was inaccurate and she is carrying more puppies. I have only ever had bitches scanned twice and both time the girls had double the number of puppies seen on the scan. My current litter ( first time mum, medium breed) was showing at about the same time, did not scan as there was no need, it was so obvious she was pregnant. She had 7 puppies. My girl was also quite slim, so puppies had nowhere to hide. I wouldn't worry, seems fine to me.

Thanks lynneb i was wondering how accurate the scan was the only thing is i saw the scanning screen as soon as the probe went on her belly u could see the four pups what i dont understand is how can there be any missed there was 4 pups on screen and nothing else when you got ur dog scanned did he move the probe round or just stay in one spot? He just stayed in one spot with mine it littrally took 30 seconds from start to finish

A lot of vets will only scan to confirm pregnancy, not numbers. As already said, she probably has more than 4.

I go to a very good sheep scanner, he scans both sides, counting pups on each side. If there was 4 on the scan on one side there may be more on the other side.

This is the first time ive ever had my dog scanned he scanned right in the middle if that makes sence it wasnt a vet but a mobile scanner ive read alot about there being more pups than shown on the scan but i dont no how this is possible. She seems to be very big for there just been 4 pups. If she had allready ovulated when she had a tie does this mean she could whelp closer to 57 days rather then 63 ?

> i dont understand is how can there be any missed there was 4 pups on screen

With tiny breeds like mine when they carry large litters, there will be hidden pups under the ribcage which won't have been picked up by the scan.  As to whelping early, my breed whelps on day 56 which is perfectly fine, whelps are totally viable.

Just to add - have you got TBOTB?

She seems to be carrying very low like her belly is drooping if u get what i mean and what is TBOTB??

The Book of The Bitch.  You can order it cheaply on Amazon and get it in 2 days, or buy from PAH but it will cost £12.99 there.  Once you have it read it from cover to cover.  Then read it again.

I have a breed that normally carries 1-3 pups.  And I've whelped many litters.  But you never stop learning.  With my last litter (a maiden bitch) I knew she was pregnant very early, she was enormous.  By day 56 she looked like a dinner plate with a head on.  I was worried about inertia.  Some Toy breeds are very prone to it.  And it is very dangerous.  So I went to my vet and asked to see a vet.  They were fully booked and it was a case of waiting until someone felt sorry for me.  By the time we got to a consulting room and a vet lifted the bitches' tail, the water sac was arriving!  I asked for a room so I could whelp my bitch.

I was given a load of vet bed and I lay on the floor with my bitch.  The vet stood in the doorway to watch as she had never seen a litter born.  (Most vets only see a bitch when she is in difficulty and needing a C-section.)  Well, I delivered puppy after puppy, and I had never had a bitch whelp so quickly.  Seven pups in all and I was amazed.  I don't like large litters in my breed but this bitch reared all 7 pups.  No reason why your girl can't be the same.  But you do need someone who will recognise inertia.  I doubt that a novice would see the signs.

> She seems to be very big for there just been 4 pups

  Don't forget that size will also be dependent on how much fluid is carried.  Which differs from litter to litter, even in the same bitch.

Thanks im going to have a look on amazon now ive whelped litters in the past but large breeds never a toy breed so now im doubting myself i hope she dosent have a large litter maybe she just has a lot of fluid i just cant wait until the pups are out and all are doing ok is there a reason why we arnt aloud to mention the breed ? Im new to this site. P.s that must of been some experiance having ur dog whelp at the vets lol

It's fine to say I have a gundog breed, or toy breed etc.  Any mention of the actual breed can be seen as advertising.  Which is not allowed on CD.

There is a huge difference in whelping toys, and any information you can get - make the most of it.  Sometimes it's possible to be given wrong advice if the size isn't known.  I wouldn't dream of advising on, say, a Lab litter.  That's why CD is a mine of information.

I have a toy breed as well as gun dog breed and one of my toys girls was scanned with 3 and she had 6 as I mentioned in my earlier post. Also just had a litter of gun dogs at day 58. 7 pups, all fine. If your girl is slim, she will show earlier. Pups can be carried high in the rib age as mentioned and can't be seen with a scanner.

My toy breed looked pregnant very early to, scan showed 3 pups and nearing end of her pregnancy bless her she was that big I had to wash her tummy after every walk because mud would get all over her tummy. She actually ended up having 6 puppies on day 63 of pregnancy all nice size and healthy they are all 4 weeks old now. So very possible for your girl to be having more then the 3 pups seen on the scan.

Now on day 49 and she looks like she is going to pop chewylou lol. I just cant get my head around this whole scan thing (i wont be doing it again) i cant see how more pups could be hiding. I sore four pups on the screen then just empty space, i think im comparing it to much to human pregnancy and there ultrasound scans having 3 kids. On what day did u get your girl scanned do you think 25 days is too early ? Ive never had a bitch show all these signs very early on in pregnancy but then again this is my first toy mating. The other thing that is concerning me is she is still diving about like shes not pregnant running up and down the stairs and jumping on and off the sette i try to stop her but she still thinks shes a pup herself i just want these next couple of weeks to go and the pups too arrive safly lol.

I just cant get my head around this whole scan thing (i wont be doing it again) i cant see how more pups could be hiding.

LOL, the "best" scan result I ever had was when a vet said 1 or maybe 2 pups and the bitch had TEN! As for toybreeds though, I had one litter born day 55 (went into labour day 54) and I have never seen a bitch look so big. She had 4 pups but despite being born so early, they were huge.

Hahah i no from here they can be very inaccurate i just cant see how. No more scans for me in the future. Yeah this was one of my concerns if she does have only four pups are they going to be huge and did ur pups have any issues been born on day 55 or were they compleatly fine. ? Never been so nervous about a dogs pregnancy lol

> i no from here they can be very inaccurate i just cant see how.

Because only so much fits into the beam at a time, so you can miss some or see the same ones twice.

I have never had a scan see more than three pups and always had more.

A specialist vet that did scanning for cancer detection etc scanned my Kizi back in 1999, and said to expect an average size litter of around 6, she was scanned at only 25 days looked anorexic and went on to have 9 large pups, so he was probably most accurate.

Had one vet declare pregnancy easily by palpation, but as I'd paid for a scan went on to scan and had terrible trouble locating anything until she went higher as I suggested.  She managed to find three, and 8 were born (though 7 reared).

It seems to be the norm people getting more pups than suggested supose time will tell by first mating she is 51 days and loosing quite abut of discharge (dosent smell) hop she holds on for another week or so

I get what u are saying when u say only so much fits in to the beam at once, the thing is the scanner didnt move the probe around or anything he put the probe on her belly and 4 pups flashed up so he just kept the probe in the same place.

> he just kept the probe in the same place.

So then the number was never what he was trying to ascertain.

I never look for anything like a count as in then end you get what you get and a large litter can end up a small one.

I have had two litters one the bitch carried 8, (3 stillborns and I laid on the night of birth), we reared 4, and the other she carried 11 (3 stillbirths, one dead retained) so only 7 survivors.

im just going to have to bite the bullet and wait it out

If you use an experienced scanner who does it regularly and is a breeder themselves the numbers and likely whelping date are much more likely to be right. I would never use a vet for a scan, not to mention the risk of infection by visiting the surgery.

Yeah i wouldnt use a vet either it was a sheep scanner but it was a very quik scan

With my large breeds I've always had them scanned by a sheep scanner and he has always been exactly right with numbers.  I have my bitches scanned at 28 days but one was scanned at 23/24 days as she was unwell and they were not only able to see puppies but zoomed in and could see heart beats.  The sheep scanner uses a different machine and probe to my vet.  The one the sheepscanner uses view both horns at same time which is how he is able to get an accurate count.  I even met someone who he accurately scanned as carrying 14 pups and she was :-)
I am expecting my first toy litter in 2 weeks and my vet scanned and felt her and said definitely 2!  I wasn't convinced so took her to Archie the sheep scanner who said 3.  Time will tell :-)

My girls are always exercised like normal right up until the last few days.  My old girl used to slow down during both her litters at about 21 days for about a week then was back to her normal bouncy self.  My toy breed who is in whelp just now and is 49 days is still jumping up and down off beds and sofas etc

The scanner i used didnt say anything about vewing both horns may e he just veiwed one? She is just over 50 days now and it takes her a couple of goes to get up on the sette but she still can ive stopped walking her as much as shes so big and tires easily looks like theres a few toy litters due over the next couple of weeks

Guess the scan was wrong my girl currenty whelping her 9th

Well done mum, hope all is well.

I would let the scanner know he/she was well out!

> it takes her a couple of goes to get up on the sette

Honestly Marc, don't allow it.  You can easily lift her up.  I wouldn't want one of mine doing it.

> my girl currenty whelping her 9th

Oh my word

> Honestly Marc, don't allow it.  You can easily lift her up.  I wouldn't want one of mine doing it.

Im just glad the whole pregnancy is over she was far too big, no the wonder having 9 pups i knew she must of been having more than 4