http://www.pets4homes.co.uk/classifieds/1207439-papillon-female-13-months-registered-spayed-leigh.html

I've asked, and received loads of help on what breed over the last 2-3 years.  I've also lost the 2 dogs since I first did - one a good age of 17 - the other heartbreakingly young @ 9. 
I've got a (allegedly) 12 month entire a jrt X toy poodle who is great fun, very clever (think he's training me half the time lol), energetic, enjoys cuddles, can get enough excercise within house & garden enjoys walks, mud, running, searching games - definitely an agility/ flyball candidate - the last I'm going to get/build/adapt further equipment for.

He's 8kg, & has been for a few months now, and something around 14 1/2" tts.

I've fancied Pappillon for a long time but am worried about: their fragility - could she hold her own with my pup - they're similar ages?  Will they break with play with other, different sized dogs?  Can they go for a decent hike? Are they just toys - I don't think so from my readings but am so worried about their fragility despite keep reading they're hardy.
Sorry for the long post - I'm still very confused but saw this girl & thought she could be a good addition for us.

Cant answer about the breed and suitability but what I will say is never rescue a dog from these type of adverts. The owners very rarely tell the truth and you don't know what you're getting and have no come back like you would through a breed rescue or even a good general rescue centre.
I would be either looking for a puppy from a reputable breeder or contacting breed rescue or if a reputable breeder has a young dog for rehome who will give you the back up along the way.

I agree with Sue. The fact that they are selling the dog at a price rings a big alarm bell to me! Surely money shouldn't be an object when re homing a "much loved pet". The home is of upmost importance - not making back what you paid for it!

say is never rescue a dog from these type of adverts. The owners very rarely tell the truth and you don't know what you're getting and have no come back like you would through a breed rescue or even a good general rescue centre.

Thanks Sue - you make absolute sense there - especially re owners not telling the truth - I do worry about health implications, but thought o might've been able to check on parents at least as were, alledgedly KC regd.

Read the advert that the parents are IKC so unless they were registered here and health tested here then no you wouldn't be able to check. Many health tests the kc don't recognise anyway even if they were done here. Marianne is the one to ask re Pap tests or the club website.

Home from home rescues rarely go to plan, no back up and often things have been missed on purpose to get the dog out of their door whether its free or for a price.

Looking quickly at this advert - much as the dog clearly needs a chance at a new permanent home, I'd NOT be paying the price they are asking!!   For me, THE HOME is way more important than financial return.   Yes, a small fee (as would be the case with adopting from a Shelter) but not anywhere near that price.    You'd do better, if this is the breed for you, to contact Breed Rescue, or even a reputable breeder who may have a youngster they have 'run on' but hasn't come up to show-expectations.

And as warned, people wanting rid of a dog for whatever reason, will say anything.    I don't like that website, period.

Looking at the area she's in, I wouldn't be surprised if she's originally come from the infamous pet supermarket around there. It's a bit of a catch 22 for the owner if this is genuine. You hear time and time again that dogs shouldn't be offered "free to a good home" as it attracts the wrong kind of person. Whether the amount they are asking is too much is down to the individual, she is vaccinated, spayed and microchipped.

My Brother-in-law recently bought a Chihuahua bitch in exactly the same way, owner said she was going travelling...., she is a little sweetheart. Very well trained, good in the house and out and about. Actually a dream compared to their other Chihuahua dog who they've had since 8 weeks old...

I think if you are interested and you are strong enough to walk away if it sounds too good to be true, go and have a look at her.

As for her fragility, I know someone who had the breed with much larger dogs and did agility with theirs.

Thanks for your input, I knew I'd get sound advice on here.
The point about IKC & pet supermarket definitely rings true - I hadn't thought of that.. This is particularly worrying re health. I also worry that she's been spayed a little young, though the fact she's spayed I find appealing as I wouldn't have to go through separating when in season.
As for the price, I don't really know what I think good points being made on both sides.
As for the breed, I'm still unsure, I've read quite a bit about them but still worry if they're up to long hill walks, apart from that their intelligence and sense of fun and energy definitely appeals.
Thanks again

wouldn't worry about the hill walk aspect- advantage of a dog that size is if they start to flag you can tuck them under arm and carry! saying that I used to walk my Gran's tiny chi bitch and she never flagged- could walk miles

Cavaliers are sturdier looking than Paps, but my Cavaliers can do 3 or 4 hour walks, so I'm sure a Pap could manage a couple of hours once adult and with the exercise increased gradually.

I'd worry about the JRT part myself. Is he likely to play very rough? 8 kilos is quite a lot. Or has the Poodle part diluted the Terrier temperament enough perhaps? The Papillon in the advert looks huge for the breed though so could be as big as 6 kilos (I've got one like that myself) but your average Papillon bitch weighs 3-4 kilos with some weighing just 2. Average size 10 inches. What strikes me about the photos is that they sort of contradict the description -the tail is down in all the photos. Papillons drop their tails when nervous, when they are happy they have the tail up all the time.

So much is down to the individuals. I had a 6 kg Cavalier I had to rehome because he, for whatever reason (not exactly common in the breed), decided he hated my oldest Papillon (3.5 kg). Both were neutered dogs. The Pap got bitten badly enough to need stitches twice (one of those times it led to MRSA) and the third time he was attacked he had such a shock he almost died as he collapsed and stopped breathing. Needless to say the Cavalier had to be rehomed. I also no longer allow my little and large dogs to be together as the risk of injury is so big -but of course my big dogs are much bigger than 8 kilos. I had them together for years only stopped recently. But I have a LOT of dogs -9 Papillons alone. Lots of people have a Papillon or two with other breeds without any problems.

Breed rescue would probably be the best way to go. A puppy could be difficult as they are so very small. (And must not be sold before 12 weeks.)

Health wise, DNA testing for PRA1 is now recorded by the KC. Patella testing is important but there is no official scheme.

I have always been told legs break easily in Papillons, but they are very, very bouncy dogs, leap straight into the air, jump several times their own height, and their working ability is great and they love to learn. My daughter walks miles with her 3 Papillons, mine get far less formal exercise but that's the good thing -they can take little or a lot. And a decent sized garden is like a field to them.They tend to hate rainy weather though!

This is extremely helpful, thank you.  I've decided against the girl as too risky - I've lost enough dogs in recent times. 
I have seen a male puppy though, also advertised on here. He's clear through parentage for Pra, P/L 0/0, for pet or agility only(great for me).  I was going to email the breeder with my situation.
I have read about broken bones on a couple of sites, which is what worries me & put me off the breed but I have liked them for many years - it's just the fragility....
My pup is quite light boned I'd say more poodle body shaped, though he's a lot taller than both his (alleged) parents.   He shows typical terrier traits as in chasing and 'killing' toys, he loves to run & does mad runs round the house jumping on and off furniture (I try to discourage the jumping but he's slippery & quick).  When we had our Elkhound they didn't play fight, she'd pretend to go to chase him and he'd dash off round the rooms - I've had to take this on since we lost her mid-November.   He's also pretty quick at learning things - he's training me well lol,  and enjoys training sessions and searching games as much as a walk.  He doesn't like the rain either, think he picked that up from Heid! I do have a variety of fleece and raincoats.

If they can't cope with rough play how do you go on walking them off lead somewhere like a canal tow path?
I don't want to get one if it's unsuitable, but got to admit to feeling excited that I may be able to.

There is also the distinct possibility the dog may even have been stolen so many being stem that sell easily.

I have seen a male puppy though, also advertised on here. He's clear through parentage for Pra, P/L 0/0, for pet or agility only(great for me).  I was going to email the breeder with my situation.

That's a known breeder and sounds fine.  Just be extra careful with a pup. It does sound though like your crossbreed needn't be too much of a problem -what you describe is very much Papillon traits as well.

Mine are all fine off lead and they certainly are quick learners.

taking everything that's been said about the breed especially from Marianne if you do decide to go for a papillon and not this one contact breed rescue if an adult is better choice.

Thanks so much for all your help Marianne.  I've emailed & had a long chat with the breeder & will be going tomorrow. 
She weighed him whilst I was on the phone and he's actually about 200g heavier than my pup was when I got him, obviously he's a couple of weeks older but at least I've fairly recently coped with such a tiny pup - phew.

I really appreciate everyone's help!

He sounds rather nice, hope all goes to plan. Do come back and let us know after your visit.like Paps, pretty little dogs.

Well,  I got him yesterday

And how's it going?

Lol / Grgh - give me another 1/2 hour to retry typing my post (I'm very slow). I lost the rest of it - looked liked it posted - don't know what happened.

He's gorgeous, full of character a bit of a bossy boots - he's even managed to take a hoof off Pip from his playpen.

Pip adores him already & is being really gentle - well taught by Heidi - though I'm mostly keeping them separate by pen they've had a little time out together.  They're still playing together - just on different sides.

He's started raw today & all seems well - poop patrol lol.

He slept til 5 this am & settled again pdq til 7:45ish.  I've even been out for a while & all quiet on return - he was very tired & fed. Confident little man I think. 

I've had a couple of votes for calling him Gizmo???

Sounds great so far, glad your Pip is being so good.

Brilliant. I considered Gizmo for my first Pap as well, it really suits the breed. (Did not end up using it though.)

People who met me walking my first pap in the park used to refer to him as Gizmo.  It´s a good name, but my boy was already called Pepsi.