Hi

I'm new to this forum and am experiencing a few problems with our puppy Barley, he's a jack Russell and Norfolk terrier. We already have a bitch of the same Jr. & nt. Breed. She's twelve and is the loveliest dog you could wish to meet. Doesn't bark, ignores cats and is really laid back and easy going.

Anyway back to Barley, he's approx five months old and:

Has taken to eating his own faeces, then vomiting it back up.

Going toilet in his cage, I've encountered so many people who roll their eyes and say that dogs never mess in their own beds! Well they haven't met our puppy obviously.

He hasn't got the courage to push his way through the dog flap despite much coaxing, it must look quite comical to the neighbours. any ideas?

In the morning he will go for a poo in the garden then wet on the kitchen floor, we have used puppy pads but now moved up to copies of the sun (found a use for it) then he will use the house occasionally using a mat but more times not. ( it's very much hit or miss) He is taken out for walks most days, I have never tried so hard and feel like a failure, he is currently going puppy training.  Last point we feed him dry food, we tried him on wet for a change but that just encouraged his fecal appetite.

Any suggestions would be appreciated although I already know that puppies are not supposed to mess in their beds. Thanks in advance

Kev

Well I think your possibly expecting to much and setting him up to tail.

If your expecting him to use a dog flap to teach himself that outside is the place to go.

You have it wrong.  To him one place is as good as another, and as he has learnt to soil his bed (this will only have occurred if at some point he had no option, or was very stressed) then you can't rely on him wanting to keep his sleeping area clean, but I bet when eh ahs the chance he dirties elsewhere?

You need to teach him where to go, and minimise the chances of him getting it wrong.

You need to start from scratch.  Like with a new puppy, take him out every half hour while he is awake, take him to the spot in the garden you want him to use, and give him a cue word for going.  You will have most success if you take him out straight after he wakes, after meals after drinks, and after any excitement/play. Stay with him until he goes, and praise.

Restrict his access indoors to places he should not be using, and keep him in a room with washable flooring when you can't supervise, and don't shut him in his crate leave the door open, attach a puppy pen to it, if he needs to be more confined for his safety. 

Use of puppy pads and paper are counter productive, as they give him permission to go indoors.

You say he is walked most days, that should be every day, for around 25 minutes at his age.

Thank you very much for your prompt reply and I will start from scratch. I understand now that maybe my expectations were too great thanks again!

When you bring a puppy into a home with an existing older dog it can be a shock to the system. Your girl sounds lovely but was she likes this at 5 months old?? I've found that you get out of the habit of listening to your dog when they get to an older age as you are both so attuned to each other. I've had lots of puppy owners who've commented that they'd forgotten what hard work a puppy was.

With poo eating I've found it's you as the owner that has to be on the ball, you know he eats it so don't give him the opportunity to do it. I had a poo eater and found the only way to deal with it was to clear up straight away (and yes that is sometimes easier said than done).

If you are trying to get him to use a dog flap does this mean you aren't supervising him outside when he goes to the loo? I never recommend puppy pads/newspaper to my puppy owners. I just think they defeat the object of house training. I would recommend you go back to the beginning with his training, set your alarm for every half an hour, go outside with him, lots of praise when he goes,  I use the command "hurry up, hurry up" so that my dogs learn to go on that command ( I can't stand dogs that sniff about and don't get on with their business) it will be a lot of work on your behalf but it does work. 

How long is he being left in his crate when he messes? He is still only a baby and again it's up to you to recognise the signs that he needs to go to the loo.

You need to ditch the puppy pads and start to teach him that the only place to toilet is outdoors. Puppy pads teach pups the complete opposite - they are learning that it is ok to toilet indoors - and swapping the pads for newspaper is just teaching him that it is ok to toilet on paper. He will have no idea that doesn't include any piece of paper that he finds.

You need to start taking him out at very regular intervals - after waking, feeding, playing, drinking etc. I always put my youngsters on a lead when I take them out to toilet so they aren't running around playing. Once they have performed they get praised/treated and then let off the lead to play. You have to be consistent and vigilant - any mistakes are due to human error I use a target word for when they perform. I start off by saying the word (mine is the word "busy") as they are actually going because they need to associate the word with the action in order for them to eventually hear the word as a command. My dogs will now go out and perform when I use the word busy because they know what it means and it is really useful to be able to get them to go on command before leaving them if I go out or before they get in the car etc.

Using the dog flap will come with time, for now you need to make sure that you are there to take him out by opening that huge dog flap commonly known as a door and accompanying him through it so you are there to praise and reward him when he toilets outside

Fabulous post from Brainless.  Can I just add that while a bitch will have a good wee, remember that males have more than one go at it.  If they get taken back in too early they may have another go indoors.  Just give him time to leave his peemail.

Thanks everyone for your advise. Rome wasn't built in a day so it's back to the drawing board for me, this is a new and humbling experience for me. Thanks again

I have had problem with my little bitch ref toileting, she had an eptopic ureter and so use to leak constantly because of this she also will pee in her bed even though she is now operated on (successfully too). I agree I constantly have to go right back to the beginning even though she has been dry for 6 months, its like that first imprint that wee is normal anywhere is so firmly fixed it reoccurs every now and then. We also have a dog flap and for the first week I had it constantly taped open so she could go through at will with no hindrance the the next dry day I sat on the opposite side with a large bowl of chicken and coaxed her through It took a couple of hours with me at first lifting the flap then letting it fall very gently and so on but we got there she uses it all the time doesn't always pee outside if its raining but she still lifts the flap to see what the weather is like !! Dogs dont you just love them. Best of luck, in a few months you will wonder what all the problems were I'm sure

Ive never believed this dogs wont wee / poo in their beds . yes they will if  they are crated and haven't anywhere else to go

Yeah echoed Brainless really got to the point of what's going on in a really explanatory way. You should expect you get a bit of "judgement" no matter how "unlucky" you are with circumstances of how much time you have to give your newly acquired puppy. Cos it will now take 3 times as long to unlearn these bad habits! , kind of that's what learning is same for kids as pups , they need (more than) a bit of time and dogs are especially bred over the years to please us. Me to I believed my dog had a sense of "pride" over his (All) living quarters , and I'm still sure he did eventually , but they follow our lead / want to PLEASE us , and if there is no obvious-to-them , oft-repeated(consistent) cues from the owner they will not learn how nice it is to have clean living quarters Not magiced up by you cleaning their mess : they can follow logic - they don't mess it will be clean, but are learning lots it needs to be seen to be a prority to 'follow the owners lead' - Outside

For the eating their own mess.  Maybe you could try that anti-nail biting stuff ie. instantly coating their poop with it and seeing them turn their ( sorry I forgot if the new one is boy/girl!!) nose up at it , or if worst comes to worst force them to spit it out.  Maybe the vet has a recommendation of an animal version it IS- a fairly common , maybe 4 in a hundred odd dogs , problem...
Good luck. People feel for you cos you can get on with the business of it having his/her spot in the household as a beloved member when you get this sorted , right now he/she prob. just sensing your tension , so lucky ' so young won't hold it against you later lol.   Only say invokes a bit'a judgement because people can expect miracles when we all in turn would have pooped our nappies with zero brain activity and then growing brain activity but SEEmingly none , can't judge the puppy crassly...

I'd just say the best way to crack poo eating (which is quite natural, but disgusting) is to not give the opportunity. 

You must clean it up before the pup has the chance to investigate it.

but to not make a big deal of it as son as pup goes distract them a way from it and praise, then clean it up.

the reason pups will eat the mess is because it still ahs nutritional value.  a pups digestive system is not as efficient, and fi not fed often enough and given too large meals at other times, it races through the gut largely undigested, so recycling is the attempt at getting the goodness out of it.

If the pups food is digested well the poo will be less attractive.  It is worth looking at the food your feeding, in case it does not suit the pup, or look at the meal size, and frequency too.

I have to add I have a 7 month old pup that wees her bed... In a matter of hours after it is put down. I bred her so know full history. She has never been crated or confined so she must go to her bed as no other choice. She has always been in a space that is clean, we have somebody with pups almost 24/7 till they leave so she not used to being soiled & smelly. ..
She is house trained and no accidents, unless I put a bed down ( even new never urinated on one so no lingering smell). Don't know why she does it, she is not popular with my other dogs as I have had to lift all dog beds in areas she is in :-)

I wish brainless, one of mine is like an excorcet . she will home in on it and dig up the cats poo in the garden that I don't even know is there so cleaning up after them only stops part of the problem . Rabbit poo another delicacy

Nothing for other animal poo (as that's normal delicacy) especially cat, fortunately mine only try to get it from under hedges on walks and I stop them being on lead, no cat daft enough to come where dogs are .

I do stand there while my lot do their business and clean straight up.  Have even put the shovel under their bums so it drops straight on LOL

> Have even put the shovel under their bums so it drops straight on

Still chuckling at that one. 

I know it's late and you've already received very good advice.....but if your dog is still eating his own poop, may I suggest what worked for me (from advice several years ago from this forum).

Grate about 1" of courgette and mix it in with his normal meal.  If that doesn't work, try some pineapple chunks , from a tin.

Don't know why it worked ... but it did!  It doesn't stop the pup from eating other dog's poop, but it stops them from eating their own.

Magic!!