Hi all

New to this forum, new to dawg parenthood!

Picked up our pup a week ago from a KC breeder. She was supposed to go before Xmas but the person who put a deposit on her decided not to pick her up, so the breeder left it until the new year to advertise her, hence getting her at 4 months. I think she was left in a room and caged with her brother, so no toilet training took place. Since we have had her, she has weed on her bed blanket several times so I'm guessing it is because she is used to peeing in her own bed. It has only been a week but since then she has defined her own poo palace in the garden.....we have a dog flap which I trained her to use straight away to help with toilet training. She uses it frequently now and has a fairly decent area to play in, sometimes with me, sometimes on her own. I have been taking her out when I think she needs a wee, in the morning, after a sleep, after drinking....then I wait and give her massive praise but she still wees inside. I have used washing powder and boiling water to clean it. She has no preference where she pees inside. Outside she tends to go in the same area, not exactly the same place but close, so I hoped like she has found her poo palace, the same would apply to her pee palace!! I watched her this morning and mid breakfast she ran outside to her poo palace, went, came back in and resumed eating which was great to see.....if you can call watching a dog poo great!! Am I being too impatient? I don't tell her off for peeing inside. I just ignore her and clean it up.

Another few things... My partner thinks I am nuts as she is just a playful puppy who doesn't think anymore than I want to play!! but I want an obedient dog from the start. She will be out on the road with us in the summer so she needs to be trained to stay with us outside and not be distracted.

1. I make sure I walk through doors before her.
2. I eat before she does.
3. I have been really trying to work on loose lead training with her....she is pretty good, I stop say wait, wait for her to calm and look at me, then I say walk, but after a while she just wants to pull all of the time. My partner let her off the lead....I think it is too early. He said she followed him, then ran ahead and waited every few seconds for him but then ran way ahead at the end. I really think she needs to learn the basic commands first. She responds 85% of the time to 'here' to me because I spent time in the garden teaching with a treat in my right hand. The other times she doesn't is because of other distractions like sticks.
4. I only let her on the sofa if I say 'up'. If she jumps up without me inviting her, I calmly get her down and say down. She jumped down before I even finished the D this morning.

We have got her into puppy training classes with Howard Jones in Telford in a couple of weeks. My partner is coming too so we can sing from the same hymn sheet.

A bit of an essay but I am keen to read others tips, advice!!

Cheers!!!

> we have a dog flap which I trained her to use straight away to help with toilet training.

How do you think it will help? Puppy does not know she is supposed to use the flap to go outside to toilet, if she goes when she is outside then that is more luck than judgement.

> but she still wees inside

That's because you are not watching her.

> Am I being too impatient?

Yes

> but I want an obedient dog from the start.

Not going to happen, you have to teach her. She is a baby not a robot.

> 1. I make sure I walk through doors before her.

That means nothing.

> 2. I eat before she does.

So what? I eat after my dogs, means nothing.

> 3. I have been really trying to work on loose lead training with her....she is pretty good, I stop say wait, wait for her to calm and look at me, then I say walk, but after a while she just wants to pull all of the time.

She is a puppy, and walking sedately along side you is quite frankly dead boring to her.

> 4. I only let her on the sofa if I say 'up'. If she jumps up without me inviting her, I calmly get her down and say down. She jumped down before I even finished the D this morning.

Confusing for puppy, either she is allowed on the sofa or she isn't.

My puppy is 9 months old today and only has been reliably accident (dry) for about a week.

By this I mean, if I was not home or didn't hear her needing to go, she went on the floor.

A puppy won't have any real voluntary bladder control until over 5 months or so, when they need to go it is pretty much now.

I have tended to find with mien that they learn very quickly where they should go outside, if you take them, and as long as I watch them give them ample opportunities to go outside at appropriate times (after meals, play sleep etc, then they will have few accidents.

With the girls I have found once they have had their first season they seem to develop cast iron bladder control.

Hi Lorraine

Thank you for your reply. I think I am being a bit unrealistic and have probably gone over the top with reading puppy training site, books etc. Hence reference to the eating first, through doors etc....due to reading about being leader of the pack importance etc which is supposed to help with her not whining/barking when we leave her at night or to go out to the shops.....which she doesn't. She is super calm. When I said obedient from the start I meant working towards that with good habits. I know she is a pup/baby....she has tonnes of cuddles, playtime and positive attention from us. We work from home so have lots of time to spend with her, I watch her far more than I watch anything else at the moment!! Again I'm being unrealistic as she only has had one, maybe two wee accidents a day and we have only had her a week. I do wonder why she will go outside for a poo of her own accord, no accidents inside at all but not a wee. I'm not convinced on the last point of the sofa as within a week she already understands when she is allowed on it. We train them when and when not to do other things, so I don't see this as being any different.

Thank you for your advice.

Hi there

Thank you! Helpful to know. I really do think I over read puppy training books etc and have been a bit of over anxious to do my best.

Happy 9 months to your pup. :)

Thanks again.

The dog flap will both help and hinder your toilet training.

Yes, it will mean she can get outside whenever she wants but conversely, it will mean she won't learn that she should not go inside, or that she can hold it between opportunities, because she can just go immediately when she feels the need.  Now obviously if she asks to go out you can let her out, but if you aren't there and she needs to go...

Dogs are social animals not pack animals, they do not need a"Pack leader"nor should they live in a "calm submissive"state.

If you have been reading any books.by one Caesar Millan, please disregard anything you have read in them.

Perfect Puppy by Gwen Bailey is a far better resource

As others have said, your pup isn't actually learning that she is not to toilet indoors, she is just taking herself outside and toileting whilst she out there in the same way as she might wander off to another room and toileting in there.
When I bought home my current dog as an 8 week pup, it was a lovely warm summer and my pup would often go outside to explore and it would seem that she was toilet training herself, but she wasn't really. When the weather wasn't so good and the door closed if I hadn't kept a good eye on her, there would have been accidents. So I stopped leaving the door open (which was annoying considering the rare good weather) and made sure I took her out regularly. Before long she began to appreciate what was required and began to go to the door and look at me for it to be opened. There was the odd accident over the next few months mainly due to me forgetting that she was still a baby, before she was reliably trained.
Now i wonder if she has her own personal cork as its difficult to get her out the door in the morning, she would rather have breakfast and a post meal snooze before relieving herself.

You've referred to being the 'alpha' in the household. This method of training your dog has been largely discounted and positive methods are the best way of training your pup. Have a look at the Kikopup videos, she is an amazing trainer and uses clicker training and positive methods to great effect.

Glad that you realise that your expectations have been a little ott. The leader of the pack  thing is very CM nonsense and will not help re separation anxiety if it happens. Again teaching your puppy to be confident and happy to be on her own for short periods of time will ensure that she will settle quietly when you are not there. By the way teach her to settle in a safe place as although she is not old enough to chew/ destroy anything she can get her teeth around at the moment that will change and all sorts of things in the home become great things to amuse puppies.

Re the sofa thing, her reaction to you telling her to get off the sofa is more due to your tone of voice rather than her understanding when she is allowed on it. Try telling her to get off in a soft tone of voice and see what she does. Dogs do not understand the meaning of words, they understand the sound of a word and will act on it but not the meaning of it.

Thank you and I'll take a look. I have wondered why a lot I have read is so geared to pack leader training/being the alpha...based on wolves....when dogs are domesticated pets.

Thanks again.

Thank you and I'll take a look. I have wondered why a lot I have read is so geared to pack leader training/being the alpha...based on wolves....when dogs are domesticated pets.

Thanks again.

The wolf connection with training and being the alpha, came about due to some flawed research with a group of captive wolves. The captive wolves were random individuals of a similar age rather then a family group where interactions are more complex. The captive wolves didn't behave as a real wolf pack would, yet training was based on how this group reacted with one another. This is now a piece of discredited research, but unfortunately there are those individuals that still insist that dogs are trained in this way, Ceaser Milan being one of them. As he has had so much tv time many take his word as gospel.
As recommended above, The Perfect Puppy is a very good book especially to new dog owners.

That whole theory/paradigm persists because the human species is heavily oriented towards a rigid heriarchy, when most other species are not: we see it everywhere and we really latch onto it as a concept, even though we ourselves do better without it.  It has not been helped by a certain mexican idiot pushing it back into the limelight just as it was starting to go quiet.