Hi, Im new here and looking for some advice, I'd like to call it an accidental mating but really it happened through pure stupidity, I have 2 small crossbreeds and when I noticed my girl was in season i counted day 1 from that day ready to separate her from my male  at around day 7, she must have been further in her heat cycle then I thought as when I came downstairs after reading my little girl a story she was dragging my male across the floor backwards! I know you cant break a tie so all I could do was keep her calm and still until the tie ended at which point I then separated and kept them separated for around 10 days. My girl is 21 months old and I never planned on breeding them and wanted her speyed after her heat cycle (wasn't done sooner as I only acquired my 1 year old male a month prior to the mating). I didn't know about a miss mate injection until a couple weeks ago or I would have had this done to stop the pregnancy developing. I had a scan done and been told 3 puppies but I know there could be more. shes now 7 1/2 weeks pregnant and will be day 63 on January 20th, Ive set up whelping area, have towels at the ready and warm bedding for when it happens. I also have some puppy formula incase i need to hand rear, and have bough a small pair of scissors which will be sterilised at the time incase I need to cut cords. I have been doing extensive research on the labour and birth which has involved watching youtube videos where I've learned how to clear puppies airways etc. I also have £1000 in a savings account incase she needs a c-section. I know to vaccinate and microchip puppies before they leave and find good homes only for these puppys and take any back no matter how young, old or ill if new owners cant keep them for any reason. I have never liked using animals to make money I see it as nothing but 'blood money' but know that I cant just hand away for free or they'd end up in bad homes so I plan on using the money to get both my dogs neutered and donating rest of money to a dog rescue (after all I am bringing in more dogs into the world) I just wondered if anyone has any extra info or advice, I want to be as prepared as possible for these puppies.

I am just so cross that your vet did not advise you about the mismate jab, as Alizin can be used up to 42 days after mating.

I really can't advise on the homing and pricing of the pups, but I'd advise advertising now so that you can get a waiting list and have a chance to get to know potential owners before there puppies, hopefully this may reduce the 'impulse buyers'.

As far as I am concerned a litter like this should be sold for equivalent price that a rescue would charge or for the cost of rearing, but problem is that as there are d many people breeding crosses on purpose as there seems to be a market for cross breeds   with fancy names (you've used it yourself) so people think they are buying a dog that breeds pure, at lest your crosses re not too different in size and both toy breeds so traits won't be that different, but as a second generation cross pups could all be very different from each other and their parents

If you sell well below the 'going rate' for such pups, (regardless of what you do with the proceeds) you could potentially end up with people buying them for 'resale' to make a profit.

I hope all goes well for your girl and the puppies.
Buy the Book of the Bitch and read, read,read it is invaluable and saves writing a book on here.
Of course if no animals were bred there would be no puppies etc for people to own. Breeders who breed for the right reason - to improve their line and hopefully that of the breed as a whole are to be applauded of course.

I think the most important piece of advice that is missing is that such small breeds usually gives birth early -so count on day 55 as the first possible day for the birth and do not leave her alone at all from day 54 onwards. I have had a litter born day 55, the bitch went into labour day 54 but pups were born after midnight so officially 55. And it's perfectly possible for some bitches to be ready for mating from as early as day 4 or 5, it varies between individuals.

Just to add to the advice you will get, hopefully - don't cut the cord if you have to, tear it.   Unless somebody has told you - newborn puppies can't regulate their own heat, so the area around the box needs to be kept at a good heat - around 80F if you can so when mum leaves for a comfort break, they don't get chilled.

For the future - NEVER leave an entire pair together.   Once you see him taking interest in her, and know she's due to come into season, SEPARATE THEM.   There was no point leaving her with him until day 7 .....  no two bitches are the same, some ready to mate earlier, some at the normal time, and others into the third week.   And from the moment he was aware, he'd be ready and waiting.   So what happened was pretty much inevitable and frankly you were darned lucky neither was injured in the tie, with nobody right there.

It's good that you sell the puppies for a basic fee - I'd set it at what people would pay a Shelter.  I firmly believe all puppies should have a price, if only to show commitment on the part of the new owners - otherwise it's easy come, easy go.   Without getting into whether anybody would buy them cheap to sell on as a 'rare mix' - shudder.    If you can do the same check re the home that Shelters do, so much the better and if that means going to see the proposed new home, do.    The breeder of my foundation bitch, experienced and in the breed for years, sold a puppy to a family who looked ideal.  When they left with the puppy, she found they'd left something behind and ran to the gate to see them putting her puppy in the boot of the car WITH A LOAD OF OTHER PUPPIES.   Had she not gone out there, goodness knows where that puppy might have ended up.  Needless to say she took it back!

Also toy breed puppies of the breeds in the mix should not go to their homes until 12 weeks old, as they are quite under developed compared to larger breeds. 

Be aware of signs of Hypoglycaemia as not only due to small size do they regulate het poorly for longer, they also don't regulate blood sugar as well as larger dogs pups.

Where's the like button?

> Where's the like button?

You have an upvote button, Jean

Thank you for all the replies, it was very stupid and 100% avoidable! I used to foster rabbits for a rescue years ago and had to do home checks on potential homes some of which I had to turn down for 1 reason or another so I will be home checking potential homes for these pups and hopefully keep in touch as well as id want the dogs returned if they could no longer take care of it as I dont believe in dogs being passed around. Thank you to the person who warned me about toy dogs having a higher chance of preterm labour I actually didnt know this and have now done some research and I will certainly be keeping a close eye on her behaviour or any signs she may be in labor.

Hi another little question, I know newborn puppies need to stay warm while my house isn't cold and there is a radiator just outside the nest area so heat would circulate in there easily however there are times when the heating isn't on and I was wondering is during this time would I place something like a heat pad or maybe one of those teddies that you microwave the bag in and the teddy stays warm for a while? I know if there's a heat pad I need to keep a cool area of the nest as well just in case pups get to warm.

My girl is day 55 today I was watching her puppies move around last night was amazing watching one of the pups move its leg or paw across her tummy a few times lol These is certainly at least 2 on one side and 1 on the other so I think 3 may well be her puppy number (unless shes hiding 1 in her ribcage) its getting real now and I'm starting to get anxious for the birth, hoping everything goes well for her and that all puppies are fine. shes starting to rest a lot and spending most her time in her bed in the nest area because its comfy and quiet for her.

A heatpad at the very least needs to be on if heating is off (at night say). 

I always have an oil filled electric radiator with thermostat by the whelping box on at night (when Central heating is off).

Mine is a breed that is not heat hungry at all.

Toy breeds for thin coated breeds need more heat and puppies of small breeds loose heat faster on top of the fact pups can't regulate their own body temperature so can easily chill, and then die.

i actually have an oil filled radiator so will use this on a night time there's a plug socket near the walk in cupboard that ive set the nest area in so I could have that going instead of relying on heat pads, dad has a Pomeranian coat so is long and quite thick but mum is semi-longhaired and coat feels quite thin so I can only imagine I could get a mixture of either coat types.

you are going to have to charge for the pups to ensure good homes but another thing I have seen done before is cash back . idea is that you have a basic contract with puppy buyers that if the puppy passes the kennel club good citizan scheme within certain time you will give some cash back.  its a decent incentive to get pup well trained and a well trained dog is less likely to need rehoming at a later date.

> I was wondering is during this time would I place something like a heat pad or maybe one of those teddies that you microwave the bag in and the teddy stays warm for a while

Just jumping in and haven't read the whole post.  But I have a small breed and would never, ever risk not having a proper electric heatpad.  A teddy that doesn't stay warm for more than a few minutes would be a definite no for my breed.  I would have dead puppies.

In theory a heatpad is needed for 3 weeks.  In actuals, my breed will often need a heatpad for 6 weeks.  This time of the year I would have central heating on 24/7.  Just making this clear for lurkers who may have toy breeds.

> I could have that going instead of relying on heat pads,

I use both as cold can come up through the floor, and heat pads only give background heat, the radiator will keep the whole area comfortable if you set the thermostat right, by having a thermometer mounted on the whelping box.

Alternatively you could run central heating 24/7, but I could not cope with heat at night, and having it high in the day hence the supplementary heat where it's needed, as neither hubby or I can cope with it too warm.

Fully agree with Jean. For my toys it's heated pad (one specifically for dogs which keeps the correct temperature) for at least 5 weeks and heating on 24/7 for at least 3 weeks. That's an absolute MUST this time of year for such small pups. I had one of the microwavable teddies once, put it in just for pups to cuddle up to (not heated) -mum chewed it to pieces which could have been quite dangerous.

Thank you for the replies, I have 2 snugglesafes from when I had rabbits would these be ok to use along side the oil plug in radiator? shes day 57 today, shes had some normal discharge just on vulva this morning when I checked, possible start of the mucous plug if it comes out in bits (I've read about and looked at pictures of bad discharge) not sure if it is the start of the plug though or just 'regular discharge' it looked like a snot anyways. Because shes nearing the time of labor when should I start sleeping next to her? I'm petrified she'll hide her first stage of labor really well and I'll get a surprise

I have one of the snugglesafes which was only used if I needed to take a pup/puppies to the vet. You really do need a heated pad for the pups. You can get one online quite easily.

thank you there are places near me that sell heated pads so I will go out today and buy one once I've read reviews etc. on them so I know which is the best to go for. don't want to order online just in case pups come in the next couple days as cant guarantee it will get here in time (something I should have thought about a few weeks ago!)

thank you there are places near me that sell heated pads

Be careful with heated pads for humans as they can get too hot. I use one for myself and it gets really hot, whereas the ones for dogs are set to always be at the correct temperature, plus of course will have safe cables etc.
http://www.warwickwhelpingboxes.co.uk/index.php/products/whelping-kits-and-accessories/heat-pads/warwick-pet-heat-pad-small-30cm-x-40cm-144-145-detail

Ive been looking at the ones in pets at home? https://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/searchterm?searchTerm=heat+pads would any of these do? if so I can pop along to my local one :)

I'd go for the Pet Remedy Low Voltage Heat Pad, sounds similar.

> shes day 57 today

> when should I start sleeping next to her?

Mine normally whelp on day 56 and there is no reason that your girl could not be the same.  So the answer to when is NOW! 

Rather than go to PAH I would go for something more professional.  Totally indestructible and I've used them for years.  I would recommend.

http://www.petnap.co.uk/acatalog/Flexiguard-Petnap-Pet-heat-Pad-2.html 

They can do a next day delivery.

thanks Jean, I'm going to order that one now, hopefully Holly's babies stay put until it get here! but no signs of labor yet so don't think she'll be giving birth tonight although I am keeping a close eye on her and have my sleeping bag on the floor by her bed. babies are still really active and shes eating like a pig lol thankyou all for your helpful advice I really appreciate it

Took her temperature before and its 98.6 F is this a sign she will probably have her pups in the next 24hours? she certainly appears more uncomfortable but no panting or shivering, no pacing or nesting yet however before it did take her around 5 minutes to get a poo out I got paranoid thinking she was giving birth and got on my hands and knees to have a look

Day 61 today I think she may be in the very early stqges of labour, refused breakfast this morning and just wants to relax and sleep in her nest which is in a dark quiet place away from everyone, have had clear watery discharge over the last few days, stopped taking her temp as she really didnt like me doing it. I think i located a 4th puppy last night it appears to be sitting half under her ribcage however i really dont think theres anymore then 4 but we'll soon find out :). I have the vets number on hand to call wh3n i know shes for deffinate inlabor. If no puppies show what woukd be the deadlin3 for me to let her go before booking a c-section? Only 1 mating took place as i seperated traight after first and no way they coukd have gotten to each other so days are spot on from that 1 mating. I will update this to let people know whats happening and a picture (if you can post pictures) when pups are here.

Also my mqle is booked in to be neutered next week and my girl will be speyed once pups have gone to their new homes so no more stupidity on my half!

Hi, just thought id update this. My girl gave birth to 6 puppies 3 boys 3 girls, all are doing fine and mum was a natural and shes doing brilliant! I think we will be keeping 1 and will be homechecking potential homes for the other 5. My male will be getting neutered next week and my girl will be spayed when babies are weaned and the puppy we keep will also be getting done aswell so no more mistakes :)

Thankyou to everyone who helped we with advice its been much appreciated and very helpful.

Congratulations and we'll done re safe arrival of pups. I wish you all the best.

Congratulations pleased it all.went well.when it comes to puppy please wait to.get her spayed until she is fully developed .so much healthier for her and as responsible owner she won't get pregnant before.now.your boy is going to be.castrayed

Congratulations!

Now the hard work starts!!!      

Agree with the parents being neutered no hurry to get the puppy done, wait until maturity.